Nice work, Mark! Will you be repurposing the Mianne Benchwork into this plan?
Lew, JD, thank you!
Lew, actually the tracks to the right are planned to be two sidings. However, I would be able to to put the back leg of a wye in. The question is how long would I be able to make the tail track! I could always poke a hole through the exterior wall like Mike G plans to do!
JD, good question about the Mianne. I do plan to use it for the free standing part of the layout that allows access to the doors. Also the wall opposite the one I worked on is brick. I haven’t decided whether to try the brackets on it or use the Mianne. Since I have it, I’m leaning that way.
Congratulations Mark, you have a room to yourself. I recently started on my first O scale layout so I probably will not have any words of wisdom to pass on. I will say this, no matter how much room you have available, O scale track, switches, and other stuff take more room than I realized.
Thank you, Dan! After having HO layout, O sure does take more room. But I find it more enjoyable because I can see the trains a lot better!
I hear you Mark. I went from N scale to O scale. I can read the car numbers now! 
Mark;
Nice progress... it looks like it will be easy to reach anything on your “shelf”. I may have missed it, but will this section connect to the section you built on the Mianne benchwork???
dan 77 posted:I hear you Mark. I went from N scale to O scale. I can read the car numbers now!
N scale cars have numbers on them? Who knew?
Paul, thank you for asking. A few pages back, in January, I wrote I was going to have to rethink the layout I started with the Mianne. The reason was our daughter would not be able to move her piano out any time soon, which was necessary to continue on with the build. Since I am stuck with the return loops with no where to go for who knows how long, I decided to continue in the little room with a fairly simple over and under twice around plan just so I can run trains. Time will tell when I can get back to the other layout. I can look for the page with that discussion and post the new plan later. I’m just responding now on the smart phone.
Dan, I built an N scale layout once upon a time. I’m amazed I was happy with it at the time.
Mallard, N scale cars had numbers 30 years ago, so I assume they still do. I can’t prove it because I don’t see much of anything on them now when I see a modular N layout at the Greenberg show.
geysergazer posted:Mark, it looks like you are going to have a Wye. Eggcellent! I can't seem to find room for one.
Lew- I think the middle of the room could fit the Wye and a finger track or two to turn trains 
Lew and Bob, all suggestions are welcome. As you both have demonstrated recently nothing is ever etched in stone on a layout! 😄
Mark, maybe you could post your trackplan......(probably again but Senior brain here) ?
Mark Boyce posted:It's about time I post a new twist to my progress. If you follow the Forum topic What Did You Do on Your Layout Today, then you already got a heads up. For those folks, you can skip the two paragraphs in italics, since I copied it from my post a couple days ago. If not, then read on.
I might as well give a heads up on the farther reaching purpose of the cleanup. The cleanup is in the small room I started a layout in two years ago. Then my wife suggested I build in the family room since the girls were married and the furniture was junk. So many of you contributed to a layout design for that room too. However, as time passed the need for access made the room 'shrink' to some extent. So last year I started building on the end of the room that was emptied. I built the two loopback turns one on top of the other with no connection between the two. The next part of the layout that is to be built will climb up the canyon where a massive wooden shelving unit is. The shelving unit is to move across the room to where our older daughter's upright piano is. Well we hit a snag getting the piano moved. Daughter and son-in-law had moisture problems in the lower level of their house and had to throw out some stuff. Other stuff was moved upstairs. So it is dried out, but none of us has the money to put into correcting the problem where the moisture is getting in. We don't have the manpower either because my son-in-law's dad, newly retired like me, and like me he had his knee replaced 4 days before mine. So, the home repair at our daughter's is on hold, moving the piano is on hold, so freeing up the rest of the layout space is on hold.
So, I mentioned it to a few Forum members, Mike, Chris A, DoubleDAZ Dave. Dave helped me with a simplified layout plan for the old small room, just so I can get some trains running until I can do the bigger project. Besides, I'm getting tired craning my neck to see trains run on the Ceiling Central RR and blinded looking into the lights in all the passenger cars.
I still can't climb the two step ladder to replace them with freight cars.
Also, I am finding like Jim, I am a Looper. Switching back and forth on the existing track on the new layout isn't what I want to do for the foreseeable future.
So here is the proposed track plan and there is a SCARM file in the attachments box.
You may recall I used this simple method to build my shelf on the wall that is to the left on the track plan. I intend to use the same on the top wall on the drawing next. This method has proven to be rock solid considering all the stuff I have had piled up on it over the last year and a half.
Here you go Lew. This is the easiest way since I don’t have access to the computer right now
Dave, Thank you for adding the link. I wasn’t able to figure out how to do that on the phone. I’ll be able to get back to the computer tomorrow evening I think.
Great to see you making progress Mark! Glad you got the straight/level issue corrected with the brackets. If that’s not right it’ll drive you nuts. I like the track plan. Nice action.
Andy
Thank you Andy. Until I get back to the computer, please check the link DaoubleDAZ Dave posted above. I’ll try to get back to the computer and post it again here.
Let's try this Lew. I was working on the top shelf. The yellow represents a removable bridge for access.
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Hi Mark
What if you cut a parallel line between the the bottom loop and top loop straight sections and have the top loop swing up and the bottom loop swing down for access?
Al
Looks like it’s taking shape Mark! I’ve been MIA for a few years and finally getting back into trains again. Sadly having to go with HO. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, Mark. Somehow I lost track of this Thread during our trip to Pittsburgh. The double-loop up-and-over has always been a favorite track-plan of mine. Those scenic backdrops you have are going to make your Pike really come alive.
The 43" high knee-walls in my train-room just don't give me enough vertical space or I'd have a variant of what you are doing. But it's all good because I'm fortunate to have the dedicated space I do have.
Because two levels of track are you thinking of a lift-out bridge? Or two separate hinge-up bridges?
I look forward to seeing your Pike take shape. 
Thank you Al, Lance, Lew!
Lance, welcome back to the hobby. If it wasn't for my eyesight, I probably would have stayed with HO instead of switching to O back in 2012. Have fun!
Lew, Yes, the yellow portion roughly represents a lift-out, swing up, or swing down section for access to the middle. I have made no decisions on that at all. That area will probably be my Golden Spike area. 
Al, so you are suggesting having two single track swing sections I take it. It would certainly be lighter and easier to maneuver than a whole sceniced section a foot or more wide. I think that would be easier to construct as well. One going up and one going down would work. Thank you. I am thinking of something simple like Lew's which is not much more than track on a board.
Yesterday, I put in more cleats to fasten risers, tabletop to. I was hoping to keep it an open grid with risers if I am making it in modules that I could move off the metal brackets when and if we move. I'm in a bit of a quandary of how to build it with my limited carpentry skills, so I may just put down a flat tabletop and put in risers from that for the elevations.
Mark, looking good. Nice track plan. I'm anticipating your track laying and train running!
Jerry
I decided to go ahead and mount boards to the cleats. These will support the track with risers on top of them. I'm building them in 32" wide sections that can be unscrewed from the cleats below and lifted off if ever needed. On the other wals it seems I can go with 38" sections where the track work isn't as complicated. I'll have the terminals for the wires to disconnect for each module. Track joints are close to the edge of these. I'll just cut through the track pins if I ever need to move it.
Here is today's work. The tan board will support the 6" high end of the passing siding. The shiny boards will support where the two tracks cross over each other and the end of the sidings to the town on the hill.
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Nice to see construction moving forward, Mark!
I’m glad you got the gist of my idea. Might be too complicated for what is actually needed but you know what will work for you.
Keep at it!
Al
Looks great, Mark! Keep going!
George
Looking good, Mark. Keep on going.
looks nice Mark, keep up the good work, Phil
Good to see the progress.
One thought - be careful how much weight you put on the two particle board pieces in the last photo. If a loco sits in the middle of either board, there's a good chance it will sag.
Mallard, Thank you for the advice!! I have been questioning in my mind how these boards will hold up. The tan board is leftover from building my Ceiling Central also supported on 16" centers, and I haven't had issues, but.... I did lean on the brown boards yesterday, but that is not the same weight for an extended period of time. I wish I had the funds to go out and buy the best, but I don't, so I'm trying to make do with what I have. It's a precarious juggle I must admit.
Al, George, Dan, Phil, Thank you!!
Mark, from the finish on those pieces I gather they were salvaged from a piece of furniture? If so they'll probably be fine. The stuff they use in bookcases, table-tops and such is much more resistant to sag than flooring particle board.
Mark Boyce posted:Mallard, Thank you for the advice!! I have been questioning in my mind how these boards will hold up. The tan board is leftover from building my Ceiling Central also supported on 16" centers, and I haven't had issues, but.... I did lean on the brown boards yesterday, but that is not the same weight for an extended period of time. I wish I had the funds to go out and buy the best, but I don't, so I'm trying to make do with what I have. It's a precarious juggle I must admit.
Al, George, Dan, Phil, Thank you!!
The sag can take months or years.
One option is to take some 1x2 and use them on edge like girders to reinforce the boards. Attach them on the underside with glue and screws (countersink the holes and screw from the top). If the underside does not have the faux wood on it, use carpenter's or Elmer's white glue; otherwise, use gorilla glue.
And don't ask me how I learned this stuff.
Lew, You are correct! I mentioned that way back on page something-teen, so I don't blame you for not seeing it. Most of it came from a deep, 6-foot tall bookcase. The rest was from a rear projection television my late father-in-law had that the projector blew out. What a monster that thing was when I tore it apart.
Mallard, I won't ask how you know, but I do have a lot of material I salvaged from my dad's shop last fall before we sold the place, and I can buy some more 1x2. I will attach bracing. I have always used carpenter's glue, but I am starting to like Gorilla glue. Thank you!!!
Mark, I'd bet $ it will be fine without further support. If it hasn't sagged by now after being part of a bookcase for years it's not going to sag in future with a couple trains on it. 
Watching from afar. Keep it up 
Mark, everything is looking great. If you’re concerned about the sagging, an economical option would be MDF Ultralight. It’s relatively inexpensive, lighter in weight than regular MDF, is strong and takes screws and paint well (prime first of course). Thanks for posting your progress.
Andy
Thank you Lew, Kevin, Andy!!
Thank you for the suggestion on the MDF Ultralight! I’ll look into it. I will have to buy something at some point.
Laying down some board! Now the fun really begins
I've been working on designing my around the room layout and I never thought of using a bracket system like that instead of running legs down. Any cons other than holes in the wall?
Lance, I have not seen any cons other than the holes in the wall which could be easily patched. It is nice and solid. These brackets came from Lowes, are 20:long, and they claim they will hold 1000 pounds. Oh, one con is that they are a few degrees over 90, so the table wouldn't be quite level. Once I discovered it, I backed out the top lag bolts a quarter inch, slipped in the black composite shims that I had cut a slot in for the lag bolt, and tightened back up. After that, I just drilled a big hole in the shims to accept the bolt. I like the method a lot.
Good to hear Mark! I may look into that design option.
Lance, one more thing. I actually put up the brackets on the first wall 2 years ago, and have had all kinds of stuff sitting on the tabletop over the two years. Solid as a rock!!
Noted Mark! I may make a trip to the store this week and take a look at what they have to offer.
Mark, found this in another thread on shelf layouts - calculates sag for a wide variety of materials, and uses a lot of different variables. I can't vouch for the science behind the calculations, but it looks promising: http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/
Looking good Mark. Glad you are making some progress.
Bob
Mark,
I really like your track plan. You make very good use of the space available. Too many people try to cram as much track as possible into the space available, aka spaghetti bowl.
just one question, do you really need such a steep grade on the back wall?
Keep up the great work.
Mark, I'm a firm believer in L-girders. An L-girder across the front would give improved support in addition to giving you the advantage of attaching the platform boards from below. A 1x4 fascia board and a 1x3 or 1x2 top would make a nice girder. The span on my layout is 4' between wall supports using a 1x4 & 1/2 L-girder front and a 2x4 & 1x3 L-girder plate against the wall. The platform is 3/4 OSB that I reclaimed from construction dumpsters in our area and topped with 1/2" Homasote. It has proven to be very stable - 6 years to date. Nice to see your progress!
Cheers, Dave
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Nice to see your progress. I also have built my benchwork from leftover bits and pieces. I found some 1x4 wood I had saved about 40 years ago. It has worked out just fine. I think the suggestion of some underside, glued/screwed 1x2 or larger wood is a good idea. No chance taking a chance on sagging in a few years.
I like that you are taking your time on the benchwork. My spare-room benchwork has been under construction for 3 years. Remember, you really can not fix shoddy benchwork easily in the future. so, it is good to catch any problems now. Keep up the good work and keep posting for us procrastinators.
Jeff
Mallard, Thank you for picking up the discussion again. I love the term "The Sagulator" I tried it out just now on a rough guess on what I am using, and it gave me an "Acceptable" reply. Nevertheless, I have been spending a couple hours each day since my last reply disassembling the tabletop I put on the first wall two years ago and making sure all my brackets are level; front to back and side to side. To do that, I moved a bunch of stuff I don't need right now off the first tabletop and distributed it elsewhere. I am at the point where I will make a decision on what bracing to use on the front and underneath. The rub is I want to make the top in modules no longer than 48", when or if we move. That is all dependent on my mother-in-law's health. She lives across the road from us, is only 84, but in good health. We only plan to live here until she either passes on or has to go to a home. The rate she is going, we will be old ourselves by that time!
Dave, Thank you for all the photographs! Your benchwork looks great! I like the narrow shelf below. Yes, I see the L-girder. I have used L girder before on a free-standing layout. I see you made good use of the 2x4s as well. I have a bunch of 2x4s I brought home from my Dad's that I can use where practical.
Jeff, I have a bunch of used wood some old and some not so old. Good advice as Mallard is saying you can't fix bad benchwork after you get so far.
Jim, The grade is to accommodate the passing siding switches being flat. Actually, the grade is quite similar to my favorite prototype, the Western Maryland's Blackwater Canyon grade that I want to model the feeling of some of the scenic features of the town of Thomas at the top of the grade, Parsons at the top of the grade, and some scenic features in between. Early on in this topic, I tested all my engines pulling reasonably length trains up a simulated grade, and they worked okay. Once I get to that point, I'll be testing again before anything final is put down.
Bob, thank you too, and thank you everyone for the suggestions and encouragement!!
I envisioned the PER would be an around-the-room shelf layout and originally thought to use shelf brackets--as a matter of fact almost identical to yours, Mark. I even ordered a few from the A-place.
But upon consideration I worried about the stability of the knee-wall studding. A lot of the finishing work in this old place was done by someone I think of as "the do-it-yourself-er" and not meant in any charitable way. As an example of his "craftsmanship", the guy installed one of those [then newfangled] fiberglass bathtubs and instead of nailing a 2X4 to the wall to rest the back edge of the tub on he simply hung the tub from nails driven through the [thin] fiberglass lip of the tub. When we bought the house the nails had broken the fiberglass lip and the tub floor was an inch off-level, sloping downwards toward the wall.
So, not trusting those knee-wall studs to support a cantilevered large shelf bracket system I decided to use L-girders supported by posts and blocks screwed into studs. This is how it turned out:
I prefer shelf-brackets when possible though. For example, we were short on cash (selling one house AFTER buying another) so used the cheapest stuff for the laminated floor....and it probably won't last. I'm gonna' need a sky-hook to support the layout while the posts are removed to redo the floor. 
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I’m finding all these pictures intriguing. My layout will be an around the wall one and these pictures will help!
Can’t wait for more picture updates Mark!
Lew, I know the kind of do-it-yourselfer you encountered. Our house in Virginia was like yours. It was a small Cape Cod, four rooms and a bath downstairs and originally unfinished attic, that the previous owner divided into bedrooms. That wasn't too bad, but he did a lot of rewiring and re plumbing, and all of it was messed up. I fixed what I could, and hired professionals to do what I didn't know how to do.
News Flash! In the time between my last post and now, Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf announced more counties to the Stay Home List, and Butler County was added to the list. So, now I can't go buy lumber or hardware for the foreseeable future. I knew it was coming since our county borders Allegheny County which initially was the only Western Pennsylvania county on the list. Oh well, it is for the best. Kim just told me one of our church members who is a few years older than me is in the ER. He experienced a cough, fever, and shortness of breath, prompting his doctor to sent him to the ER.
I need to use up some of this old lumber anyway, so I'm going to do some figuring. I can rip some of these wide boards into more manageable dimensions.
Lance, that is what is so great about following topics on this Forum. I get a lot of ideas and information by discussions others are having.
As others have stated, the bench work is the foundation of your layout and functions the same as the foundation of your home. Easy to fix before but difficult and expensive to fix in a retroactive manner. My goal was to maintain floor clearance and minimize legs. Therefore, allow me to share a few more pictures. PS: I tend to over build!
Cheers, Dave
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Dave, Thank you for the extra photographs! It’s better to overbuild than under build for sure!
Mark, sorry to hear your on lock down, as we are also. but that's ok like you I have plenty to keep me busy here! The funny thing is I can still order lumber or whatever I need from Lowes and they will deliver it to my home.
I am glad to see things are moving along with your layout build. I also used the L girder method and it works great! Gives me plenty of room under the layout and supports my 180Lbs when I crawl on top of it!
Either way I hope your having fun with your build!
darlander posted:As others have stated, the bench work is the foundation of your layout and functions the same as the foundation of your home. Easy to fix before but difficult and expensive to fix in a retroactive manner. My goal was to maintain floor clearance and minimize legs. Therefore, allow me to share a few more pictures. PS: I tend to over build!
Well done.
"I built it too strong" is near the top of the list of things that nobody ever says.
I made some more progress. I installed the front facia boards from old wood as can be seen. Now the whole framework is rock solid. I can't shake it or move any of it even a smidgen. I extended the boards on the next side that will support the risers and roadbed. Supported every 16 inches and on one side they should work. I did not make the special cut for the back curve in the corner because it started raining, and I had to bring the saw and horses inside.
I did this rough mockup to show how my concept is planned to work. It is easiest to show here because there will be just one track going up left to right, and one going down left to right.
This photograph will represent one 3x4 foot module. The three longer 2x4s represent stringers to hold the module together if or when I remove the few screws from the bottom that hold it to the basic framework. I will have risers up to the rear plywood roadbed only wide enough to support the track and attach the scenery base. The front track will have trestle bents at every 12" track joint so that where the front track is higher than the rear track, you can still see through to the track and scenery. I did not make any effort here to show the correct grades.
To answer why I didn't just make a complete tabletop, I want to do as much wiring as possible standing up. I will run the wires above the brackets that are on 16" centers and tie them in to the sides of the flat baseboards, so that after disconnecting the wiring between each module, the module will lift off the wall brackets with all wiring coming with the module. It's hard to mock up, so we will wait until I get to that point. I'm pleased with the progress.
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Mark, I really like your modular construction approach, especially with much of the wiring being done from above.
Mark,
Things are moving along. I'm sure you were in a groove before the clouds opened up. But some progress is better than no progress. Keep it coming.
Dave
Mark, nice progress, and smart move regarding the access for wiring. 👍🏻
Andy
Great job!
Peter
Mark- I like the open framing idea. My next layout will be open framing and roadbed only where track will be. Scenery areas can be filled in later.
Bob
Mark Boyce posted:I made some more progress. I installed the front facia boards from old wood as can be seen. Now the whole framework is rock solid. I can't shake it or move any of it even a smidgen. I extended the boards on the next side that will support the risers and roadbed. Supported every 16 inches and on one side they should work. I did not make the special cut for the back curve in the corner because it started raining, and I had to bring the saw and horses inside.
....
To answer why I didn't just make a complete tabletop, I want to do as much wiring as possible standing up. I will run the wires above the brackets that are on 16" centers and tie them in to the sides of the flat baseboards, so that after disconnecting the wiring between each module, the module will lift off the wall brackets with all wiring coming with the module. It's hard to mock up, so we will wait until I get to that point. I'm pleased with the progress.
Mother Nature and that "rain" thing getting in the way
Great idea on the wiring format Mark. Can't wait until the day I finally get to a round the room layout. I get to stand constructing my ceiling layout, but my neck is still at a 45-degree angle. Ugh.
Thank you everyone! Yes sitting on my little roll around seat to put in the screws from underneath that hold the modules to the frame is enough under the layout work for me.
I have had a lot of time to think this out. I just can't seem to put my ideas on paper to show you ahead of time, so I'll do it with the mock ups.
Kevin, Yes my Ceiling Central Railroad was a literal pain in the neck!! Putting it over the 6' 8" doors with a ceiling at 7' 6" high doesn't give much room to work. That is why I never neatened it up. Once it was running, I just left it.
Mark, this is fantastic, great work, great progress. Keep the pictures flowing. Stay healthy, stay safe, have fun working on the Blackwater Canyon Line... Amazing.
Keep up the good work, Mark - even a little a day and it'll be done in no time !
Mark, your doing a great job! See the slow and easy method sure makes life a little easier on the body! I wish I would have done more planning but its to late to go back and start over! LOL
Thank you Larry, Richie, Mike!!
All three of you gave the good advice to take things slow and good things will come. Last evening I disconnected the wires to the Ceiling Central RR and removed the TIU and terminal block board from the wooden roll around cart I built two winters ago. Some may recall that was intended to be a rollout section for a turnback loop, but became a cart holding all the boxed Christmas trains and my two sets of Western Maryland passenger cars when not in use.
Today, I moved the cart in under the family room layout build that is on hold until more of that room becomes available. That may never happen, but that's okay. I am happy to be working on this new plan in the 11 x 11 original train room. It now gives me more working space since it does get a bit cramped moving 4-foot pieces of lumber around now that I have 30-inch deep shelves on two sides.
I'll get some photographs up after I clean the room up a bit. Right now I'm listening to my wife's piano playing since she is laid off. I guess we are two old folks since she may never work again either.
Since this is my topic, I will choose to post a photograph on what our innovative younger daughter is doing since both the coffee shop and music store she works at are closed. She gives private piano and voice lessons to about 35 students ranging from 5 to early 60s. She is now doing Skype music lessons from home with a number of students. Word got around, and she was contacted by the Butler Eagle newspaper to be part of a story in their monthly local business special on how different people are being productive from home. Now if her sister could find space in their house that isn't damp, we could get her piano out of our family room to make room for more important things like layout building!!
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Congrats to your daughter, that’s awesome.
That's great Mark. Very entrepreneurial.
Mark, good for your daughter and for the Butler Eagle. Your Daughter's [new] work is exactly the kind of positive-going-forward sort of thing that needs public exposure and discourse.
The more I think about your "working-from-above" initiative the more I like the whole concept. Either that or flip-up modules to facilitate underside development and maintenance.
Mark, that’s great, our children mean the world to us, congratulations on having a nice, intelligent, daughter. During these times, our families are very important to us, and you have a lot to be thankful for. Stay safe, stay healthy, have fun, and when the time allows, enjoy working on your layout. Happy Railroading
Mark, that's great stuff. Kudos to your daughter and you. I'm sure you had something to do with her attitude and success!!
Jerry
Mark that's great news! You and your wife should be very proud of her! You did a great job in raising your kids!
Great idea Mark on the open grid bench work for the wiring.
I did not do this lol
I don’t spend much time under the layout doing fancy wiring anymore those days are over unless I can stand up. I just make sure of good terminations and that it’s secure.
Looks like you will be running trains soon!
Be thankful your Daughter doesn’t play drums
Looking forward to more Progress!
Al
Wow, Mark, you are certainly receiving quite a bit of well intentioned advice... Remember rule # 1. "HAVE FUN"....!!
You are absolutely right, Ted! I appreciate everyone’s suggestions and advice!! Thank you!
I have been working on securing each module so nothing sags and so that when or if I remove them to move, the modules won’t twist. It is a bit unorthodox, but everything is solid as a rock. I’ll post some photographs when I take them.
I am enjoying the posts and the work everyone is doing during these weird times. I am trying lots of different things on my temp garage layout. Mark, my wife and I are both school teachers, I have been spending way to much time doing on line instruction. Some how I am going to incorporate trains in my lesson. Maybe I should start a new thread and ask for ideas. I do not want to a hijacker. Anyway I enjoy all you guys and gals on the website.
Not hijacking at all, Catdaddy! Thank you for posting!
My brother is a high school special education teacher and has to come up with ‘creative‘ lessons for his emotional disturbed kids. Your idea for trains in your lessons would fit the bill for creative. He has one more year before he retires at 62, and will be ready to go. As the older brother, I’ve been giving him things to consider.
Now I went off track. I think it would be a good idea to start a topic asking for ideas. There are other teachers here, and maybe some have already done something similar in class.
Your layout is really looking good, Mark. I can see many similarities in the design and construction of our respective layouts. It's my guess that you're getting to that stage where you can really see your ideas taking shape, which gives a little shot of extra enthusiasm.
Bruce, I agree with your perspective on the similarities of the design and construction of our two layouts. In fact I was truck by your explanation to Carl 'Pingman' on your layout topic:
So to finally answer, I think it qualifies as a shelf layout because of the shallow depth of the benchwork and the fact that it's braced to the wall with a completely open floor below. It's also an around-the-room layout. I guess I'm building a hybrid.
Yes, I can see it taking shape, especially with the work I did yesterday that I haven't photographed yet. I hope to be posting another update this weekend.
I completed the braces for about 8 feet on two walls. I then had to come up with a way to mark the wood so I know where to put the risers for elevated track and roadbed for track at 0" elevation. Making sure the track plan fits tight in the corner, I started cutting away the empty spaces on the track plan and marking edges about 3/8" or so from the edge of the track. I then marked on the wood the elevations at every track joint and what track section would be between each two points. I then laid out track over the plan with the exception of two pieces that will be shaped and cut from GarGraves flex track. Here are some views. Yes. It looks rough, but it will all b covered with scenery and a nice fascia, so I don't care what it looks like underneath.
Here is the rough layout for the rest of the wall. Last evening, I marked the wood I want to cut to support the track on this section. I didn't setup the sawhorses on the patio today because it was windy and snowy. Instead I contemplated how to make the risers. I think I will just measure and cut risers from many lengths of 2x4s I have available.
The forecast is for more of the same weather tomorrow, so if I get time I will see what I can get done.
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Mark, your plan is looking great and your doing a wonderful job at informing us of your plans and ideas! I like how things are looking so far and hope the weather changes for you soon! It was 68 here yesterday and the future weather looks even better!
Still doesn't mean I will get any train room time as there is still house work to do and with the lack of time do to the break in at the store I am a little behind!
Keep up the great work and I will be fallowing when I can!
Looking good Mark. 👍
Coming along nicely Mark!
Looking good Mark. We had some snow flurries here on LI yesterday too. It was 60 degrees the day before.
Thank you, Mike, Pat, Lance, Bob! Yes, it was 60 degrees here in Northwestern Pennsylvania on Wednesday. Thursday was windy and the temperature dropped all day. It's cold today, but may hit the 50s before the day is out. Oh well, after 63 years, I should be used to the yo yo weather!
Mike, yes indeed the break in consumed time you were going to work on the house. It's always something. I hope you get everything resolved at the store soon!!
Mark, you are following that good rule: plan twice, build once. Looking good!
I've done so many tweaks my decking looks like a jigsaw-puzzle.
Mark, I thought I'd pass along something that I learned during the track-laying phase of my layout, which shares many similarities. You mentioned fitting the track tightly in the corners. If you plan to run any long locomotives or rolling stock (such as heavyweight passenger cars), make sure to allow for overhang. You'd be surprised at how far beyond the outside rail a loco's "cowcatcher" or the corner of a long passenger car extends when negotiating a curve, even those with a big radius. My outer curves are 096 (Fastrack), which has the built-in "road bed" that extends beyond the crossties, yet I still have to allow extra space to prevent my PRR heavyweights from bumping the wall at the curve exits. The only way to be certain is to run the biggest thing you plan to use on your layout and physically check the clearance. Don't forget to account for any scenery that might occupy your walls.
Keep up the great work!
Mark, you’ve really been working on the railroad, and it looks good. As they say, “inch is a cinch “, a slow pace, doing the right things at the right time are essential for good running trains. The foundation looks good, job well done. Thanks for posting your progress. Happy Railroading, Happy Easter.....
Thank you Lew, Bruce, Larry!!!
Bruce, Excellent observation for all of us!! I meant that the edge of the track plan fits right into the corner. We allowed about 3" clearance from the wall to the tangent tracks. I am using 054 track for the outer loop and 042 for the inner. On my original plan for another location in the house using a turnback loop all the room I had was 042, so I do not own or plan to buy anything that won't run on 042. I do have an old scale GG1 which is a shelf queen.
So with the track edge 3" from the wall, your reminder was well taken to prove this out that I will have enough clearance!! My longest cars happen to be a 7-car set of Western Maryland heavyweights. Here are two of them. The Masonite backdrop is just leaning against the wall, but at track level it is about 1 1/4" away from the wall. It will be even closer once I secure it in place. Actually I haven't done that yet because I want to see how the rear grade looks to position the backdrop laterally for the best effect. Sorry for the shadows, but this is the best I can do.
It's 45 degrees out, so I had just come in from cutting the boards I had marked out the other day. I'm going to mow a little grass I couldn't get at with the riding mower. We will see how my two goofy legs do. Mike G. I can quit any time if it's too tough. I did bring my dad's self propelled mower back home before the knee replacement and left my old hand mower at his house when we sold it.
Maybe I'll have time to work on the layout later.
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Mark, your progress is wonderful, looks like you have thought of everything! I hope the weather gets warmer there soon for you, I seen on the news last night that nasty weather was heading that way from the south! I hope you fair well with it, I guess its a good thing you go the lawn mowed yesterday!
As for the store, everything is back up and running, the robber did more money in damage then the product he stole. Had to get all the locks changed and still waiting for the window repair company to get out and repair the broken window.
Please take care and be safe! Happy railroading!
P.S. Happy Easter!
Mark,
Great work!!
Congratulations !
Thank you Mike and Leandro!!
Mike, Yes we have had a little bit of everything the last few days. Wind, calm, warm, cold, rain, snow, hail, sun, even tornadoes. No injuries as I have heard.
Last evening I put some roadbed and risers in place for the most critical point on the layout. The place where the two levels cross over each other. I built up the lower layer with a section of 3/8" Homasote, cork roadbed, then track which is my normal method. This is just a mockup, no glue or screws. With the screws I have, they are not in contact with the wooden roadbed, so I think I get less reverberation. I like to listen to the sound systems I paid for in these engines and the click clack of the wheels going over the rail joints just like I remember on the prototype before welded rail. I use beveled cork because I like to replicate the built up ballast bed of the prototype.
In the case of this one spot, all of that takes up over an inch of my 6 inches track separation. I placed my highest freight car on the track, and see I have 1/4" clearance. I do not like this car because it represents a car more modern than everything else I have. My tallest steam engines are a little less high than this car. This crossover will be hidden from view by hills and buildings. Also, the hidden area will only be about a foot long. I would like to have more clearance, but I would rather not make the 3.7% grade any steeper. That 3.7% grade does replicate the prototype Blackwater Canyon/Black Fork Grade in West Virginia.
My question is does anyone see a problem with this amount of clearance? I taper down my Homasote and/or cork in this area. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thank you and have a Blessed Easter!!
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Haha. Hey, Mark, people tend to think that my double-tracked overhead layout has consists that are gonna scrape each other as they pass in opposite directions. An inch would be better, but if that's your tallest car/engine, you're good to go.
I've been following, but don't have much to contribute to your build. Nice work, looking good. Keep testing, keep building, keep posting!
Jerry
It's tight but should be OK. I wish I made my second level a 1/2" higher. I forgot to include the track height and cork when I built mine. What's going to support the track on the upper level?
I'm sure there were no husky-stacks in the era you are modeling. 
Bob
Jerry, Bob, Thank you! That's as tall a car as I can imagine.
Bob, I plan to use 1/2" or 5/8" board with Homasote and cork supporting the upper track just like the lower track. I'll have sections of 2x4 as seen in the photographs cut to the appropriate lengths supporting it at appropriate intervals. When I get over to the other side of the layout where the front track will be higher than the rear one, I have thought of some trestles to see through to the back, but it may not be necessary since the tracks are high but still well below eye level.
Mark, as long as you are sure you will never want a taller car then IMO a ¼" miss is as good as a mile. That car can't grow and those wood risers can't shrink so I don't see a problem. For just that short distance you could use taller risers and a piece of steel plate to gain clearance. Or you could use taller risers and no Homosote/cork roadbed for just that short distance with the decking having more clearance underneath and the track resting directly on the decking, a sort of poor-man's bridge if you will.
Thank you, Lew!! The only thing I could think of that may be taller would be a wrecking crane. But if the prototype had any that were too tall, they would just go around the other way. I did think of a piece of metal plate. Poor man's bridge would fit me just fine. I have lots of poor man's stuff around here!
Nice work all around Mark! Well thought out too. That second level is really going up fast. Your daughter is very creative. My wife is a teacher and I think they all need to be creative at this time. Thanks for the updates.
Andy
Mark
Nice work. I would think I would add some clearance to that overhead. I have found too many times the hard way that just enough is never enough.
