Mark, nice looking plan, I think Lew is on the right path. If you use a support a 1/4" taller would give you a 1/2" clearance then you could use anything you wanted for road bed. Even if you just used a thin steel plate as it is the bottom clearance would be the same as you have now.
If you go with both a 1/4" along with a thin product you will be golden! If you need I have some used I think its 1/8th or 1/4" plexi glass I could cut your curve into with no problem.
Either way its looking good!
Thank you Andy, Marty, Mike. I was fiddling with it last evening some. I do think I will use some thinner, sturdy material for the crossover above. I may just glue the cork roadbed to that material and forego the Homasote at that point. I won't be using Homasote on the bridges that will be at the raise up access point a few feet away either. Mike, the thinner material doesn't even have to be cut on a curve, because I was going to extend the scenery out a bit on either end to hide the fact the track is crossing over itself there. Thank you everyone for all the good ideas.
In the last two weeks I got a little more done on the upper level. I decided to increase the height of the roadbed supports where the track goes over the lower level by 1/2 inch. That gives me plenty of clearance with this car that is taller than all the rest I own.
Since the highest point will be higher, that would make the grade longer (which I don't have room) or steeper. Well that problem was solved when I decided to not try to make the roadbed on the grade out of wood as I have done in the past. I knew I would have trouble making a smooth transition at the bottom of the grade with simple tools and limited skill. I decided to buy Woodland Scenics foam incline sections. Since they come in 2%, 3%, and 4% grades, I decided I could handle 4% as opposed to the 3.7% grade on the plan. If I had a large layout, they could get expensive, but with only two short grades, the cost wasn't a problem. Here are a photographs of the grade already glued down. The paper cutout of the SCARM plan sits right on top of it showing I got the curve pretty good.
I'm going to glue Homasote and cork beveled roadbed on top to give something solid for the track screws to grab. You can see I do have to do a little matching up at tht top of the grade at the last photograph.
Thank you for taking a look!!! Stay safe and healthy everyone!!
Mark, that'll work! 
Looking good, Mark!
Peter
Coming along nicely Mark! Grade looking good too!
You are making good progress Mark. Keep it up and keep us posted.
Mark, looks like you have a good plan! I am with Lew I think it will work just fine! Its nice to see you got it figured out! Keep up the nice work!
Looks good Mark. Sometimes its best to accept our limitations and call in (or buy from), the pros.
Bob
Lew, Peter, Lance, Jim, Mike, Bob, Thank you very much everyone!!
Yes, It has taken a while to figure it out, and there is more to figure out. I suppose everyone runs into that on a layout build. Fortunately this was fairly inexpensive to buy from the pros. If I had more disposable income, there are some other things I would buy too, but on the other hand, I don't necessarily need them. 
I like what you’ve done Mark, not only with the styrofoam for the grade, but you’re maximizing what you have on hand. Well done 👍🏻
Andy
Andy, Thank you!! It would be nice to buy all new top of the line wood products, but then I wouldn't have the cash to buy the rest of the track I need! It will all be covered with scenery, so as long as it is structurally sound, it doesn't matter if it is a mix match. I am rather OCD, but after 35 years married and raising 2 daughters, all far messier than me, I can live with the mix match! 
Hi Mark,
You may have already considered this, but on my last layout, I too used Woodland risers for a double mainline. After installing the risers I applied a few layers of plaster-cloth to increase its rigidity and it also gave much better support for laying and keeping the trackwork in place. It was cheap, easy and fun to apply. Just a thought.
Your progress is great! Keep having fun.
JohnJr
JohnJr,
Thank you for the suggestion. Yes, I can see how the plaster cloth would give something rigid to support the track. Your comment addresses the issue that I am facing since I made the decision to use foam to make my grades instead of wood.
My original plan was to put down a base of wood then put simple 2x4 risers on top of that for the grades and level upper track. I would then use a wood-Homasote-cork sandwich for the roadbed whether on level or a grade. I happily went on with that on the level area then felt overwhelmed at making the transitions from level to the grade. That is when I decided to use foam. That was fine until I realized I didn't have a good transition from the existing risers to the foam.
This photograph shows two mismatches. On the left, you see the top of the 4% grade which comes up to the top of the risers. When I shimmed up the Woodland Scenics grade with 1" blue foam, I forgot that the risers were cut to have 5/8" of plywood or MDF/OSB before putting down Homasote on top. That's the first mismatch.
On the right, you see the risers shimmed from 5" to 5 3/8" to give more room for trains to pass under my one overpass. Carrying that through, I would still need to shim the middle section of risers to 5 3/8". That means I need to raise the grade even further.
Here is where I temporarily placed sections of plywood down to make sure all my shimmed risers are level and at the same height. I will need to work from that overall height around to the grade I showed above.
So in effect, I have been spending some time spinning my wheels on this, but all is not lost. One thing is certain. Everything is nice and solid so far!
I have been thinking of adding more blue foam under or on top of the Woodland Scenics foam to make up the difference in height. Other suggestions are welcome.
Have a great week and stay safe and healthy!!
Great progress, Mark! I'm enjoying watching your layout materialize.
Firewood, Thank you!
Mark- once you have the top height locked in, you can shim the track coming on to the grade. Get a pack of shims from HD/ Lowes. They are cheap and easy to work with.
Bob
Bob, Great point!! I had some, but used them all up when I realized my metal brackets were slightly more than 90 degrees. I was at both stores last week looking for an obscure plumbing part, but never thought of looking for shims. 
I'll have to stop later in the week when I have to go out that way again.
I think those are the plastic wrapped packages of Cedar shims. You get a bunch, cheap. Wish you were close, I have a whole bunch of those left from various projects.
Jeff
Hey Mark, been a bit since I got my eyes and nose over the other topics to take a good look here. It looks great. I love how the grade foam is working. I sort of wondered about that myself seeing it done on a smaller scale(HO) and how it would work. Remember that the only mistakes you make are the ones you decide not to correct or don't notice. Even at that though if you can live with them, so be it. Now, if the entire train flies off the tracks(God forbid), then it's time to stop letting me help, not that I have yet, just saying.
Bob and Jeff, Unbeknownst to me when I last responded my wife had another load ready to take to the Goodwill store for them to haul to their warehouse in Pittsburgh for processing. I stopped in Home Depot on the way back and bought these. This sure beats the little packages of shims I have purchased before.
They should last through this project!! Thank you both!!
Dave, Trains flying off the tracks was my experience with N scale back in the '80s! Enough of that! 
I have seen a couple others here on the Forum using the Woodland Scenics on their O gauge layouts, so I thought I would give it a try. Thank you for commenting!!
Perfect Mark. When you're done with the layout you can either side the house or re-hang a bunch of doors. 
Bob
Well Bob, My house is brick and aluminum siding, so I won't be siding the house, but a lot of the doors are pretty beat...
Ha ha. Think that will be enough?
Jeff
Ha Ha!! I don't know if it will be enough. I make a lot of mistakes!!
So I was able to shim the middle section I showed yesterday with one shingle. It worked great!! Everything is level. Yes, I will have a lot left over!! Going outside to put some things in the shed, I was reminded I need to repair the outdoor Nativity after it blew down and broke the roof. I can use leftover shingles to make a more rustic look than what is on the broken roof now!!
With the cold weather, I have been able to make some progress. Using Homasote, cork, and track from the last attempt at my newest layout, I was able to get the track in underneath the overpass area. I left the top plywood section a little large at the inside of the curve for the sidings that will go to the right. I could cut it back some later if I see it isn't needed and in the way for scenery.
Here is the clearance for my highest car that is too modern for normal running.
Also side clearance for the longest car.
Over where the grade starts down, I did not want to try to pry the Woodland Scenics foam incline because I was sure I would damage it too much. Instead, I cut 1-inch blue foam to size and it fits very well. The foam was painted white several years ago for a Christmas layout. This is the third project that I have used this foam.
At the bottom of the grade, I had a problem. The foam now made it almost an inch higher than wanted. I thought of cutting foam down to a taper, but with a curve to consider also, I thought I would struggle. In comes those cedar shims, oh some of you pointed out they are shingles. You are right. I cut and glued a lot of them down to make a smooth taper down to the 0-inch level.
So far, so good.
Coming together nicely Mark!
👍
@Mark Boyce posted:With the cold weather, I have been able to make some progress. Using Homasote, cork, and track from the last attempt at my newest layout, I was able to get the track in underneath the overpass area. I left the top plywood section a little large at the inside of the curve for the sidings that will go to the right. I could cut it back some later if I see it isn't needed and in the way for scenery.
Here is the clearance for my highest car that is too modern for normal running.
Also side clearance for the longest car.
Ah yes, Mark, the most critical measurements of all
Thank you Lance, Pat, Kevin!!
Excellent point Kevin that it is the most critical measurement!! Also, I think it is one that is easy to overlook in the excitement of the build!!
@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you Lance, Pat, Kevin!!
Excellent point Kevin that it is the most critical measurement!! Also, I think it is one that is easy to overlook in the excitement of the build!!
And, depending on what kind of locomotives you run, don't forget pilot overhang on the outside of curves.
Absolutely Lance! For me, with 042 mainline minimum curve, my steam locomotives include two 2-8-0s, a 2-8-2, a 4-6-2, an 0-8-0, and a three-truck Shay. Not much overhang on those. I checked that out on the 042 loop I built last winter. However, some steamers really overhang. My diesels are two RS-3s, a GP7, and a BL-2.
Thank you, Firewood! Don't feel bad on that. I saw where one club with many experienced modelers ripped out scenery and changed the track just because the back of the cab roof of one of the members steam locomotives hit in a few places. It can happen to anyone.
My older son bought a Lionel scale, TMCC crane. It rubs on the otherwise perfectly adequate rockwork inside the portals to our tunnel. We need to do some supplementary carving. I didn't plan for such a big piece!
Palallin, I have seen the TMCC crane in action. It is a really neat product, but is certainly big! I guess I could say for the first time that it is good none of my daughters or sons-in-law are interested in trains to buy such a product. I actually thought of the crane when discussing raising the roof on the tunnel.
Here is part of my comment back on April 12th. ""Thank you, Lew!! The only thing I could think of that may be taller would be a wrecking crane. But if the prototype had any that were too tall, they would just go around the other way. ""
Now, I will still have to consider what I use to scenic the insides of the tunnel to not take up space. On the left hand approach, I am thinking of camouflaging the opening with buildings, but that won't work on the right hand approach.
Thank you for your comments!!
Whenever you need extra clearance for an overpass you can depress the bottom track by removing the Homasote and taper the track down, go under the over pass and taper back up..
If you need even more clearance use a saber saw and cut out the decking along each side of the lower track and push the grade down under and back up again.
Other things to do is to use a girder bridge for the upper track with only thin metal plate directly under the ties. No plywood or road bed at the actual short span overpass.
Several other ways to reduce the rate of climb. I go nutz reducing grades. Got the most recent grade down to +/- 1%
Tom, Thank you for the great suggestions. Depressing the bottom track is doing what the prototype had to do to accept double stack cars. That perhaps would have been the easier way to do it in my case. I'll do it if I ever get that crane car that Pallalin's son bought.
I was working on some roadbed last evening and realized I had better get the backdrop up. Today I got all these sections in place. Not all the pieces are attached the bracing. That is why a couple pieces lean a bit, but they aren't going anywhere. I left a gap next to the wall when I attached the 1x3 joists to the metal brackets. That way the hardboard backdrop sections just slide down into place with only a minimum of bracing. Those are mainly at the corners.
Well look what came today! A second Premier PS2 H9 I bought from a friend. This one is a little different in that it started out with Erie livery and the previous owner lettered it for WM. He left the cab roof black and the smokebox gray, but I like it in that it looks a little different from the factory painted #821 I already have.
I included this photograph to point out that with the cab roof vent up, it is a smidgeon higher than the tall C&O car. I think I will take Tom Tee's advice and remove the Homasote and taper it down a bit before I go any farther with this portion of the layout. Why not do it now? Thank you, Tom!!
Makes all the difference in the world, Mark: looks great!
Mark
Nice purchase. What clearance do you currently have? I think mine is 5.5"; maybe less. I don't plan to run double stacks or any other modern rolling stock.
Thank you Pallalin and Keith!
Mine is only 4 5/8" from the top of the rail to the roof of the tunnel. I can gain another 1/2" putting it at 5 1/8" if I take out the Homasote. I'm not going to run any modern rolling stock either, but I think I would like a little more clearance!
Backdrop looks great Mark! Keep up the great work!
The backdrop looks great, mark. Enjoy the new engine. It's because of surprises like that,That it's better not to cut your clearances too close.
@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you Pallalin and Keith!
Mine is only 4 5/8" from the top of the rail to the roof of the tunnel. I can gain another 1/2" putting it at 5 1/8" if I take out the Homasote. I'm not going to run any modern rolling stock either, but I think I would like a little more clearance!
Mark
I have a passing siding that runs under an overhead mainline. It will only have 4 1/2" clearance. I just bought an MTH 44 tonner that should clear.
Mark, I've been following your methodical progress. The backdrop came together nicely. It really sets the mood and tone for your pike. You are working through the elevation and grade details.
You brought home a whole lot of fudge-factor here 
:
@Mark Boyce posted:Andy, Thank you!! It would be nice to buy all new top of the line wood products, but then I wouldn't have the cash to buy the rest of the track I need! It will all be covered with scenery, so as long as it is structurally sound, it doesn't matter if it is a mix match. I am rather OCD, but after 35 years married and raising 2 daughters, all far messier than me, I can live with the mix match!
Your layout is coming along nicely, and I like your backdrop (being the native of the Alleghenies that I am). And I absolutely agree about the structural supports and roadbed that will eventually be hidden by scenery: as long as they are well-engineered, solid, and built to last, does it really matter what they look like?
Love that new steamer Mark. The backdrops really change the look of the room. Good to find any hidden clearance issues now.
Bob
Thank you, Pat, Keith, Lew, Bruce, Bob!
Yes the backdrop does add a lot! I purchased it from OGR Forum member George 'G3750' who is building his PRR Panhandle Division 2.0. George had this backdrop painted by an artist for his 1.0 version. In conversing with him, I determined it would just about cover my space. I have a 40-inch section of brick wall between the big window that was the back window of the house before this addition was built and the door. I have a big sheet of hardboard primed white and will get my artist daughter to help me pick colors. I will work on that one myself. Since it will be separated from the rest of the backdrop by 48 inches whatever difference in style and texture shouldn't be noticeable. This photograph from 3 years ago shows the section of wall between the window and door I will still need to cover. Yes this project has been going on for over 3 years.
Keith, I agree the 44-Tonner should be fine on the passing siding. None of my diesels are over 4 inches and they are all scale.
Lew, Yes I need a whole lot of fudge factor!! With no precision tools and with arthritis and tendonitis, I can measure a hundred times and still cut wrong. For precision cuts, I have reverted to the old hand saw and take it very slowly. I can't control the circular saw or saber saw like I once did. They are okay for rough cuts.
Bruce, There is one place I want to put another brace under, but everything else won't budge no matter how hard I put my weight on it. Fortunately, I am almost done with the scratch-built benchwork. I have Mianne like you see in the photograph with the cedar shims to use for the brick wall and other extension into the room to get to where the lift up bridges will be.
@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you, Pat, Keith, Lew, Bruce, Bob!
I can't control the circular saw or saber saw like I once did. They are okay for rough cuts.
Me too. 
My youngest son cut most of the 1/4" ply sub-roadbed. I did the marking, as he didn't understand the layout. He's great to work with. Very patient; let's me lead, even though I kept saying Wait, No, Um, not sure, etc. 
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum; the OGR Forum, that is!
When I last communicated, I was going to undercut the lower level track through my short tunnel before doing anything else. Well last Monday my wife was working on cleaning out a bunch of items we had saved for my recently deceased aunt, memorabilia from our girls' youth, and other items. She got herself into a corner with boxes everywhere, so I decided to finish disassembling the Blackwater Canyon Line Layout C I had started in the adjacent family room to give her a sorting/transition area. That however left me in a bind, with so much material, I was afraid the 11x11 room would burst. I took all week moving plywood, Homasote, hardboard, dimensional lumber, foam, etcetera, etcetera....
I decided I had better build as much of the Mianne benchwork against the brick wall as I had parts for, cover it with plywood, put in a plywood shelf, store material on the shelf, and get the rest of the hardboard backdrop in place before tackling the undercutting in the tunnel. Here are the results. I do need a few more Mianne parts (1 40-inch leg, several 24-inch I beams, and some hardware), but the bulk of it is ready. The section of Mianne with the shelf storing material is complete. The side that shows in the second photograph is incomplete, in need of the parts above, but gives a good idea of what space the layout will take.
Yesterday, I had the time to remove the Homasote from under the track in the tunnel, and now I have plenty of headroom; I hope.
There is also plenty of side clearance for my longest engines, the two H9s and cars, the Heavyweights.
Flash forward to today. I'm minding my own business, and MrMuffin sent me a 'Make an Offer' email. He has never had anything I wanted in those, but today he had one Legacy Western Maryland 2-6-6-2 from the 2018 C1 Big Book available. I made what I thought was a ridiculously low offer, and shortly received a counter at only $100 more than my offer. My wife said since I got money from my aunt's estate, why not buy it? So I did. I know, purists would say that isn't exactly the locomotive Western Maryland had. I don't care! I like it!
So now besides revisiting the side clearance once the 2-6-6-2 arrives, I need to make a variation on the SCARM plan D. I was going to stick with H9s as the largest locomotive thinking I wouldn't buy anything larger. There are three 042 curves that need widened to 054. There is actually room to do this as I lay some 054 track on the layout. I have a bunch of lightly used Ross 064 track that I think I got when I bought the Ross 054 used. I never noticed that half of what I thought was 054 was actually 064. Maybe whoever I bought it from didn't notice it either. So I have a bunch of 042 and 064 I won't need, but need more 054. I think I got it right. It's a good thing the telecom company I last worked for pushed the early retirement my way. I get so mixed up anymore. 
On the other hand, it is all good! It makes me work my mind more. Yea! That's it!
Mark
Congrats on the new loco purchase. After 3 years or so of no new motive power, I bought 2 in the last month and another on the way; supposedly in June. I'm sure it will be a month or two late.
Mark,
I really like your backdrops. I only remember seeing just one section and didn't realize you had more. They look wonderful together. Now you have the task of matching them with great scenery which I'm sure you will do. Keep the progress coming.
Dave
Keith, Thank you and congratulations on your recent purchases!
Dave, Thank you!! I put some of the backdrop up last weekend, and the rest yesterday, As the one photograph shows, I need to fill in some painting that wasn't needed on the original owner's layout. I also have a 24-inch wide section on the other side of the room to do. I'll get my artist daughter to help me select colors and brushes, then I'll have a go at filling in what is needed. It won't be much since I will have hills and buildings in front of those two sections. Then you are right, I will need to match things up with the three dimensional scenery. Those things will be fun for me. I don't really like the construction of the benchwork and alligning everything up for the roadbed. Scenery is much more free flowing.
I agree with Dave. I like the backdrops that you are using Mark.
Mark - how about a SCARM drawing so we can see what you are up to? You might find you can intersperse the 054 and 063 so you don't need to buy more track and get a more sweeping curve.
ScoutingDad, I was working on a SCARM drawing update before supper. I figured out to easily make the 042 curves into 054. I’ll Try to post The latest tomorrow. Thank you!!
Awesome news on the loco Mark! Sounds like you got a great game plan on the curve swap.
By chance are the 042 Gargraves? I may take them off your hands if you don’t need
Mark- Congrats on the new loco. Should be right at home pulling a coal drag. Nice to see more layout progress too.
Slow and steady wins the race!
Bob
Mark, congratulations, that 2-6-6-2 is a great loco, nice proportions, pulls great, fits on most any turntable, minimum over hang. I got a couple of them myself, I can run them anywhere. It may become your favorite piece.
Lance, Thank you very much!! Yes, I think it is a plan! My 042 curved track sections are all GarGraves. Some have never been used, and others have a couple holes drilled for screws on the family room Blackwater Canyon Line rev C. None have any glue or ballast on them. I will take inventory and photographs and let you know what I have to see if you can use them.
Bob, Thank you for the encouragement!
Tom, Thank you! I'm glad to hear all the good words about your 2-6-6-2.
Very Nice !! 
Leandro, Thank you very much!!
ScoutingDad, here is the SCARM plan and the file. I roughly overlaid the gray 054 curve sections to quickly show what I'm doing. I can expand the three inner curves and tangents outward to get them farther from the corners. I don't want to go too close to the outer loop because as you can see, my scenery plan is to put the Blackwater Canyon in between. The long gray bar on the right edge is a sliding glass door to the patio. The shorter gray bar in the lower right is the door leading to the rest of the basement. The yellow section will be the liftout bridges for easy access. I'm pushing 64, and have no interest in duckunders.
Mark, looks like it will be fun operating the line. I cannot quite see the elevation marks at each track section. I assume the tunnel track has your lowest elevation and the bridge over section has the highest - everything flows up or down from there? I am surprised some of the grades are pushing 4% - I figure you have about 17 feet on the inner loop - with a 6 inch rise is just shy of a 3% grade; with a 4 inch rise is under 2% ; the outer loop would be even more gradual. Jeff
BTW we young guys have to stick together - we are probably a couple of months apart ; )
Jeff, I tested each of my engines at the time pulling 4% grades and maybe 6% as well quite a while back, and they had no problem with I forget how many cars. I was satisfied it wouldn't be a problem. Forum member DoubleDAZ Dave did a lot of the SCARM work for me, especially the grades, so I took his word for it.
I am glad to know you are another young guy!
Tom Tee, I watched a couple videos of earlier releases of the 2-6-6-2. It looks great and sounds great running. I haven't been able to find one where it is taking a curve, but mine did ship today, so I should see for myself soon!!
Morning Mark, Took me awhile to get up to speed on your layout build and I have to say your doing a wonderful job! The backdrops look perfect and your track work is outstanding! Its nice that you have folks like Tom Tee and others to bounce ideas off of. I hope you will post photos of your new engine when you receive it.
I will try to do better keeping up on your build as it looks like its going to be a fun layout to run!
Take care and be safe, but most of all keep having fun on your layout build!
Mike, I'm glad to hear from you. I was thinking about you yesterday, knowing you were working on the house to prepare for the new roof, and probably other things.
Thank you for the compliments on the benchwork, track, and backdrops. The artist that George (G3750) had paint the backdrops did a great job, and I was pleased how I was able to cut portions to fit my room.
I will certainly post photographs of the 2-6-6-2 after it arrives. It was shipped out from central Indiana yesterday, so I should have it later this week. To me, it is a once in a lifetime purchase! One of those deals you don't often come across!
I'm having fun, and I am getting more enthused as I progress! I guess that is what it is all about!!
I will look forward to seeing you get back to work on your layout when time permits.
Wow, I’ve been playing on the OGR Forum for many years and it just dawned on me that this entire thread is about your nice layout, which is evolving into a really neat showpiece. Blackwater Canyon Line, a nice name for a model railroad, is so unique. Your track plan is nice, congratulations on your new Locomotive that’s on the way, and I like the backdrop very much. Now, for a 11 by 11 size pike, it’s going to be jam packed with action everywhere, so cool. To me, it’s not the size of one’s layout that counts, it’s the quality of the work involved, great track work, great wiring, neat scenic detailing, and fun to run trains. You have a very neat plan, thanks for showing your progress and ideas. Happy Railroading
@Mark Boyce posted:Leandro, Thank you very much!!
ScoutingDad, here is the SCARM plan and the file. I roughly overlaid the gray 054 curve sections to quickly show what I'm doing. I can expand the three inner curves and tangents outward to get them farther from the corners. I don't want to go too close to the outer loop because as you can see, my scenery plan is to put the Blackwater Canyon in between. The long gray bar on the right edge is a sliding glass door to the patio. The shorter gray bar in the lower right is the door leading to the rest of the basement. The yellow section will be the liftout bridges for easy access. I'm pushing 64, and have no interest in duckunders.
Hey Mark, looking good. The lift out section will be much better than a duck under.
Mark, just thinking about your layout plan. I see you have a couple of passing sidings along the right side. You might want to consider adding a siding (or two) along the left side. I know there is the issue of too much track, but I ended up adding sidings and passing tracks simply so I could keep my engines and rolling stock on the rails and not on a shelf. I do have them wired so I can keep the power off when not being used. Some of my passenger trains are 6 to 7 feet long making it challenging figuring out where they can wait to be be ready to run. This is where the Ross 72 / 54 curved switches might come in handy in your corners. I wish I had the room for a decent freight yard. Jeff
Larry, Thank you!! Sometimes I don't realize what I am looking at either. John Coy was the one to suggest the name Blackwater Canyon Line. Way back on Page 1 in January 2017 he suggested modeling a section of the prototype Western Maryland Railway in West Virginia including the Black Fork Grade, up Blackwater Canyon. Unbeknownst to him, I had planned and started to build an HO layout back in the late '90s that included that very prototype. That layout was in a bigger room, so with HO, I was going to model scenes from Elkins, West Virginia to Cumberland, Maryland. Well I got more busy with two growing daughters, then we moved to be closer to the Christian School where we had enrolled them. The layout came down, and here I am over 20 years later trying to squeeze an O gauge layout into half the space.
Dan, Thank you! Yes at 63 ducking is a nuisance, and now I have trouble keeping my balance when doing something like that. 
@ScoutingDad posted:Mark, just thinking about your layout plan. I see you have a couple of passing sidings along the right side. You might want to consider adding a siding (or two) along the left side. I know there is the issue of too much track, but I ended up adding sidings and passing tracks simply so I could keep my engines and rolling stock on the rails and not on a shelf. I do have them wired so I can keep the power off when not being used. Some of my passenger trains are 6 to 7 feet long making it challenging figuring out where they can wait to be be ready to run. This is where the Ross 72 / 54 curved switches might come in handy in your corners. I wish I had the room for a decent freight yard. Jeff
How did you know what I have in inventory that I bought for my earlier plan? I had to go just now to make sure exactly what they are. I have one each Ross 72/54 RH and 72/54 LH curved switches. 
Those were necessary to make a turn around loop fit in a space that looked larger than it is until planning started on Plan C. This is Plan D.
We had discussed a few pages back on Plan C (that I started building in the family room a year and a half ago) your very idea for especially keeping engines on the track, so I don't drop one sometime. I was just moving my engines to a safer spot last week, and realized the two H9s are way heavier than I remembered. My grip is not what it used to be. I know once I get the 2-6-6-2 on the track, I won't want to take it back off for storage. I think it I will have to incorporate your suggestion into the plan.
I will have to work with that some, keeping mind what I have planned for scenic features. Thank you very much!!
Mark,
It's been awhile since I checked in on your layout build. Congrats on the track plan, the new locomotive, and the benchwork. It's looking great. And hey, that backdrop ain't so bad, either. Actually it looks awesome. Janice did a **** of a job. I've got to tell her it has a new life. She'll get a kick out of that.
Keep up the good work.
George
I like the idea of adding a long passing siding Mark. Would you be able to add it along the back wall? I know it would crowd the canyon but being able to park a long train would be a worthy compromise to me.
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Would you consider moving the switch on the inner loop to the other side of the lift out and having 3 tracks on the lift out? The limiting factor there would be not being able to keep a train parked and lift out the section.
The 054 curves on the inner loop look good too.
Bob
George, Thank you very much!!! Please do let Janice know it has new life! She did a great job!!!
You do notice that I don't need it to be as high as she painted it, so I cut of the bottom of the section that had the Ohio River, since I didn't need the wide river. The hills on that section work out great as the river bent into the background. I have the river section on the shelf under the new Mianne. I also have a nice long 1-foot high section of sky that I intend to put above the window in the brick wall to completely cover up the tan brick. I haven't decided how I will support that.
Bob, Those are all good suggestions. To pull off the canyon correctly, the slopes have to be steep. It just occurred to me, I could put a siding there on the slope. The engine would hold the cars from rolling down. I plan to make a lot of foam based scenery that I can build at the workbench and remove if I have to get behind or under them. If the siding is on the uphill side, I could cover it with the mountain before it runs into the backdrop. That is if I want to make it look single track.
Three tracks on the lift out would be okay. I think it would be easier to construct and move if I made two liftouts, one for each level. So I break the train before going out of the layout. That's prototypical anyway. The B&O used to have to break trains back home quite often. I my very humble opinion, they were always stingy on how many F-units they put on the train going uphill from Mars, through Valencia, and to the summit at Bakerstown Station. They did away with the helper pocket when they went to diesel, so they had to call in helpers if a train stalled. They would brake the train at Valencia for the road crossing to let cars and trucks through while waiting for a helper. The tracks were less than a half mile from my home at the bottom of the hill.
Yes, we should have gone with 054 on both loops from the start. Oh well. I only have to revise the roadbed on one curve I already put in place. No big deal. Now is the time.
Thank you Both!!!
Mike, you are right. That is a handy device once it is installed. Yours works really slick.
Nice planning there Mark. Been a bit since I got my eyes reading in here. One of the things I have been toying around in my head has been designs. I've been wrestling a long time with it just because I haven't had time, and probably putting too much stuff in the way(meaning in the layout planning). Granted that whatever I do manage to come up with, I would be on paper until a new house, but it's worth the effort to fiddle about coming up with ideas.
I know one of the problems I had was too many turnouts making things cluttered. Maybe I should start with a few ovals and go from there.
Yours is looking better each time I pop in. Can't wait to see the 2-6-6-2.
Thank you, Dave!! The 2-6-6-2 is supposed to be out for delivery today.
Do you know when you will be getting a new house? I hope not long.
I had two packages arrive today. The first was some more GarGraves 054 curved track from Forum sponsor Henning's Trains. The second was the new locomotive from Forum sponsor Mr. Muffin. I inspected the 2-6-6-2 and it looks great. I briefly ran it back and forth on some track and tried it on 054 curve. I had the smoke off, and did not try many functions, but so far so good. Thank you for looking!
that is awesome Mark !! very NICE ! great looking locomotive !
That's one beautiful looking engine, Mark.
Mark, that’s a fantastic looking locomotive, the Western Maryland logo is very unique and colorful. Congratulations, and I hope you get many years of enjoyment with your trains and the nice layout your building. I always think of the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads and valleys as the stage, for our trains as characters to run through. Keep up the great work, keep us posted as you make progress on your Blackwater Canyon Line. Happy Railroading
Brian, Pat, Larry, Thank you very much! Larry, I hope to get to the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads, and valleys soon. Building them is what I like a lot more than the benchwork, track, electrical. But everything needs a good foundation. Yes, this locomotive and all the trains look so much better travelling through the sceniced stage!
Great-looking engine in WM colours - nice pick, Mark
Firewood, thank you!
Beautiful engine, Mark. The only thing better than steam is BIG steam!!!
Mark
Should look good pulling coal on the Hi Iron!
Al
That's a beaut alright Mark! Nice pickup
Beautiful engine, and glad you got a deal on it. How is the clearance?
Mark, that sure is a sharp looking engine! It is going to look wonderful on your layout! Has me wondering what your plans are for what type of cars are you going to be pulling behind it? Either way very nice and I to hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it and your layout!
That's a beauty Mark! Looks good on the 054 curve too.
Bob
@Mark Boyce posted:I hope to get to the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads, and valleys soon. Building them is what I like a lot more than the benchwork, track, electrical. But everything needs a good foundation. Yes, this locomotive and all the trains look so much better travelling through the sceniced stage!
I couldn't agree more. There's a phrase that applies perfectly to our collective hobby, which I first heard in reference to the video gaming industry: it's called "the suspension of disbelief." All one has to do is view a Norm Charbonneau video on YouTube to get a prime example.
We apply our creative assets to build a miniature realm, with trains as the actors moving about on the stage. I make no quibbles (or excuses) about the joys of living a second childhood.
Thank you, Paul, Al, Lance, Mallard, Mike, Bob, Bruce!!!
Bruce, the term "the suspension of disbelief." certainly applies!! I'll have to bounce that one off my two sons-in-law, especially the one who has made it into their livelihood. Norm C certainly is a master of it! The second childhood is great!!
Mike, well as coal is still king, I am one shy of two dozen 2-bay hoppers. I think those trains will be handled by either the H9s or RS3s as the prototype did. I think this engine will pull mostly mixed freight. I have 21 boxcars, 5 tank cars, 2 gondolas, 4 flatcars, 6 log dump cars, 6 reefers, and of course each freight train will have a caboose. I have a set of heavyweight passenger cars and a set of streamlined. The Pacific will handle those.
Mallard, yes the clearances were a concern. I have no problem with the height of the short tunnel, and I discovered the 2x4 supports offer no obstruction to the overhang anywhere. The front is the critical point. It just barely clears one support (photograph 3 and 4), so I am going to carve some breathing room out of it not only for engine sway, but also for some sort of tunnel liner.
On to the backdrop. No problem there. Keep in mind, this track is not fastened down, so I will work for even more clearance. The closest spot is shown. The shadow makes it look a lot closer than it is. I had to put my hand between the locomotive and backdrop as shown in the cockeyed photograph.
One last one in front of the backdrop.
That should provide more than enough clearance for the front overhang. I'll move the 2-6-6-2 over to check it out tomorrow.
@Mark Boyce posted:That should provide more than enough clearance for the front overhang. I'll move the 2-6-6-2 over to check it out tomorrow.
Good thing that you overbuilt by starting with a 2x4.
If that area is visible via a tunnel portal or access hole, I suggest creating a scene with a lumberjack with an ax or chainsaw. Or maybe a crew of workers taking measurements and scratching their heads?
Mallard, thank you for the great ideas! Yes I overbuilt using what I had on hand. The alternative would have been to take the plywood top off, and move the support.
My intent is to have a building or buildings in front of that spot that will block the view of the opening unless I lean way over. A retaining wall may be needed behind to make it plausible. I like the lumberjacks and scratching heads. Those would be fun.
Now I have about the same clearance here as at the closest point to the backdrop; about the thickness of my fingers. I tried about every feature I could think of off the TMCC controller, and they all worked except the rear coupler. I hear the sound and can feel the coil energize if I put my finger on the coupler, but the coupler doesn't open. I don't know if it is mechanically binding or what. Otherwise, it all works great.
I started a little more roadbed, but there isn't much new to show.
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