Bob, Yes, it is a good feeling knowing I left something in good shape for the next guy. Occasionally the next guy was me!! 
Thank you for my back's sake!
I discovered that my wiring errors weren't wiring errors at all. After checking all my wiring and finding it right, I deleted all the accessories on the remote for AIU 1 and reloaded them. All of them worked this go round. Second, I discovered I forgot to program one of the tracks on AIU 3, so once I added that, all is swell!!
I also plugged in the Gunrunnerjohn Watchdog Generator on my TIU fixed output 2 for my sidings. When I powered all the sidings, none of the engines started up on applying power just as John designed it for. I was now able to start each engine with the remote individually. Hooray!!
Thank you John, and Thank you Bill Webb for the AIU assistance!!
Congratulations Mark, that's a real milestone. Glad you're feeling up to working on your layout again. I really enjoy reading your updates and would say keep up the good work, but I know you will. 
Thank you, Steve!! Wiring layouts is old hat, but Getting more use out of the DCS system than just simple engine control was a milestone. The back does pretty good. That is even considering I am now off the medication they first gave me when the sciatic nerve was pinched by the messed up lower back almost 3 years ago. I do still need a pillow on my padded stool to work on the layout.
Mark, your wiring skills are outstanding! I wish I had them, but its funny I know just enough to get in trouble! LOL Maybe I will go back and dress it up once I am sure everything works! It will never be a clean as your, but I can always dream about it!
I am glad you got your AIU's in line to play well with others! I think I will stick with my little control board. I think for me trying to learn AIU's could really push me over the edge! LOL
Mike, thank you very much! Even after 45 years in electronics, I have to rely on others who have done it. Bill Webb was invaluable in wiring out the AIUs and higher amperage relays. GunrunnerJohn’s Watchdog Generator is beyond my understanding. Somehow, I have a hard time thinking outside the box. I was in the right jobs, implementing and fixing schemes that others had developed. Even more so, I wonder why MTH didn’t address the watchdog issue long ago. There has to be a logical reason; I am not knocking MTH on this question. I still have to locate a second Remote Commander to put the second Watchdog on the other fixed output.
Two reasons I went with the AIU.
One, I wanted to control track power and track switches from either side of the lift up bridges. With a traditional control panel, I would have had to think through two-way switches throughout.
Two, I already had invested in a TIU and remote and was using only a small part of the capability. I had already bought a spare TIU and two spare remotes. I now have a spare AIU as well. I sold a couple engines to collect the funds for the spares.
Well I am looking for a remote commander also but due to funds it will have to wait. I am in the process of selling off some stuff so I can buy a steam engine for my layout. After the last one I bought that lasted 2 minutes before the board burned up I am not hooked on getting one. I still have to sell a couple more things and I will be there!
Mike, I recall that engine. I would consider that a fluke!! What kind of engine are you looking for? I can keep an eye out for you.
I know you mentioned the cost of shipping issue with the Greyhound Station. I got burnt on shipping from here in Northwestern Pennsylvania to California on my Menards American Power Station. After I had the station, I realized it was too large for any space I would put it, so decided to get the commercial backdrop of a brick coal fired power station like I frequented decades ago. I offered to pay the shipping to seal the deal, and the oversize box going cross country caused me to net about $25 on the sale. It was my fault. I was naïve. I claim full responsibility, and don't even remember who I sold it to.
Hi Mark, I am getting a Union Pacific 4-8-4, already lined up with a forum member. All I have to do is come up with the cash! LOL
Excellent choice, Mike!!
Nice looking wiring and installation, Mark - very professional looking.
Thank you, Richie! I just started on the DZ-1000 project this evening.
I didn't get a terminal block I need yet, so I wired two DZ1000 switch machines making some connections with alligator clip jumpers to make sure I was doing it right to control them with the DCS remote. I had success on the second try. However, as I was going to switches to make the selection on the remote, I started questioning my ability to scroll through the future 12 switches while operating a running train. My reaction time is pretty poor. I decided to wire out one of the Z-stuff push buttons to the front edge of the layout and try the push button. Here is my quick mockup for a passing siding switch located right at the backdrop.
I found that I could react faster to locate the pushbutton than select it on the remote. So, do I wire up all of them to push buttons, or wire for both push buttons and to the AIUs to use the remotes??
I did make one observation that instead of selecting each track section that I want powered, to follow this sequence.
1. Power the TIU and AIUs, but don't apply power from the Z4000.
2. Select all track sections.
3. Turn off those that I don't want power on.
4. Apply power to the selected tracks with the Z4000.
Since we had trick or treat, we decided I would take Bentley for a ride in the car so he doesn't bark his head off the whole time kids are coming to the front stoop. Here is his costume he wore as we drove down the road. Argh!
Attachments
Mark
Your observation is what I suspect for myself. I'm going hard wired switch control.
Mark, I generally avoid commenting on most things DCS since I don't have any first-hand experience using it.
Oh well, here goes anyway. Personally I prefer dedicated switches, but I do have a few thoughts for you to consider. Can Routes be programmed in DCS to throw multiple switches for that route with a single button push on the Handheld remote? If so I would think wiring for AIU may be advantageous for that. Also if you envision any scenarios operating the trains where you may be out of reach of a dedicated push button, you'd have the remote option.
However, if wiring both ways are possible, that may be optimal.
BTW, cute... umm I mean ferrocious costume. 
Mark- I'm with SteveH. For operations I would prefer a hands on approach. But for the times I want to sit back with a glass of single malt and watch 'em run, the routes function of DCS is pretty cool.
Bob
Cute pooch too!
Thank you Keith, Steve, and Bob. Someone else sent me a text suggesting the routes! I saw a Rich Melvin video from the early days of DCS, and he showed about Routes. After a half dozen years, I had forgotten about that capability. That does change things.
Yes Keith, the local push button is the way I originally thought I would go. Now that I have all these AIU ports, I thought why not use them.
I do not have a WIU. The reader who texted showed a photograph of his phone or tablet saying it’s east to setup there. Good suggestion. Right now I need to but another terminal block to power all these DZ1000s. 😄
Mark, I have a mix of panel control, ground throws and 1 branchline with sidings that’s exclusively on a AIU. It’s location negated the use of ground throws and no matter where you put a control panel. It would require a good walk at times. I can now be near the train and control sidings and such through the remote. Rather than walking back to the panel. As far as throwing turnouts while trying to run a train. Forget it. I can’t navigate the remote that quickly either. I stop the train and throw the turnout. Stop again and throw it back the other way. More realistic and will add some length to your session.
I would vote push button because I think having the button in the same spot all the time becomes muscle memory. Also, if you ever need to change control systems (to anything, conventional, DCC, Legacy, BlueRail...whatever), you already got the switches wired.
Having remotely controlled switches would be nice for when I want to kick back and relax. But we'll see what happens.
My dog is exhausted from "guarding" the house all night from the very threatening kids running around asking for candy haha
@Mark Boyce posted:I found that I could react faster to locate the pushbutton than select it on the remote.
I have the same issue with legacy. The remote 'locate/select' reaction time thingy is compounded as my eyes continually dart back and forth from the trains to the remote. I finally have been able to find the time to run the trains recently and thankfully (to Bill's point) I no longer have to look at the control panel when I throw the switches. Maybe I need a half dozen remotes so I can run the trains by feel and keep my eyes on the action. 
Routes are coming next year for me but will be primarily for display.
I'll add a vote for wiring the buttons close to switch locations and also wiring the switches to the AIU. It is easy to do and gives you the most flexibility.
Thank you, Dave, Bill, Dennis, Dan!
Dave, your comment about throwing turnouts while the train is moving makes me feel better.
I was thinking of putting the pushbuttons on the fascia in front of each switch, so it is right there where I am following the train. I have no control panel, per se. I think the remote acts as the control panel. I think Dan's proposal is what I will do. Then I can do whichever way I want.
Thinking about routes, I'm not sure which way I would do them. However, if the switches are wired to the AIUs, then it would be easy to add them as I find a need for them.
Bentley looks cute, but since we rescued him as a 6-year old, he has issues. He is afraid of people and big dogs. So he barks like mad from a safe distance. He got used to us pretty quickly, though.
Here's my life experience regarding turnout control. I have 50+ turnouts with the levers/buttons located all together side by side on two control panels. AIU's are located just below the control panels but are not yet wired to the turnouts. For me, the big problem is which control operates which turnout ? And, can I figure all that out when trains are on the move. I envision DCS routes as my savior. I have no room for a track plan with graphically located turnout controls. I like being in one spot and watching the trains change routes. For me, flipping turnouts using the DCS remote or App is more cumbersome then hitting control panel levers/buttons. In the end, I like having the option of using either levers/buttons at a single location or AIU turnout control.
In my setup, all my DCS components are located below my control panel. Easy for servicing. As a result, long turnout control wiring is routed to the control panels for lever/button/AIU control. This configuration also gives me IMO more options in the future.
It's just the way I'm wired. At work, I always did the larger effort when I could have satisfied with a smaller effort. The larger efforts have future payback especially when asked to do the impossible and permitted the rabbit to appear from the hat.
Steve, more effort now will give me the best of each type of control.
Attachments
Images (1)
@Mark Boyce Mark your post regarding popped into my in box just now - 23 hours late - not bad considering it has been 2 to 3 days recently.
I have both DZ1000 and DZ2500 switch machines. All run though my operating panel using push buttons. Some I have double wired such as for the Ross crossover and other paired switches where they make up through sidings, so I do not have to remember to separately switch the entry and exit turnouts. (One pushbutton is wired to control 2 or more switches. The switch motors have to be the same because wiring is different for the two.)
I find neither are 100% reliable. When this happens its a for sure derailment, some worse than others. Personally using the TIUs to switch would be nice for pre-programmed routes. Otherwise I would stick with either panel mounted or at the switches. The DZ2500 is more problematic in that there is no way to throw the switch without power unlike the DZ1000.
As much as I like the app for operating engines, I don't think I could run engines trying to find the code for a switch in real time. I can barely do that with mine given the modest size of my layout and the length of trains I like to run. A handheld with separate function buttons would work better. As it is I have to swipe screens to move from operating to using the sound functions.
But we all like to operate differently, so choice is a good thing.
Dennis, I like it!! That dog bumps his head on the last post every time! I can feel his frustration.
Jeff, you are the second person I have heard from in the last couple days who had the same problem with messages coming in late.
I got thinking about it after writing my last post. I really don't have Much of any routes to take. I certainly don't have any crossovers like you. I tried the WIU when it first came out, and eventually sold it. I can see it would be easier to program names of switches, routes, accessories with the smart phone than it is with the handheld remote, but I can imagine myself having the same problem as you have scrolling past what I want. I'll still probably wire them out to the AIUs, but I may end up using the pushbuttons.
I did finally order an MTH 12-port terminal block to run the power connections for the switches. It should be here later in the week.
Yup... that dog and I have lot in common. I just ripped out my 2.2% grade great stone viaduct... replacing it with a 3.2% (ouch) grade to an elevated reversing loop. Hopefully, I get to scenery and structures this decade. 1. finish project. 2. rip apart. Repeat step 1. & step 2. 
Dennis, I agree. My grades are approximately 4%. I can’t say how many times I tore apart and rebuilt the grade on the K-Line trestle bents and the top and bottom of the grades for a smoother transition from level. I haven’t even really started scenery yet. 🤷♂️
Oh... the grade transitions ...the endless shaving off 1/128ths to achieve something acceptable. At least I figured out today that the RF16 Sharknose is the loco that needs the most forgiving transition.
I'd have a race with you on the scenery but I already have so many losses scratched into my belt that I had to switch to suspenders. Maybe we could beat Gunrunner 
on the scenery... he's being a little pokey! 
@Mark Boyce posted:As I have mentioned on other topics, our last daughter married in September, leaving us empty nesters. Just a week ago, I helped her and our son-in-law move the rest of her things out of an 11’ 6” x 11’ 4” basement room she had been using as an art studio. This will be my layout room. While I have built layouts in HO and N scales, this will be my first in O gauge, not counting the temporary 4x8 temporary layout that has our Christmas theme and my Ceiling Central RR in a similarly sized room diagonal to the new layout room.
I have hesitated starting a topic of my own layout design as I have been struggling getting some thoughts down on what I am looking to accomplish and realistically look at obstacles and how to address them. First, this is the most room I have ever had for a layout since my first back when I was about 12, but I never built in O gauge, so there are definite restrictions.
I envision this layout depicting the Appalachians, as I have observed in my home state of Pennsylvania and states of Virginia and West Virginia, where I have lived in the past. It seems I like anything that was around before I was born in 1956, so steam to diesel transition era works. I am not sticking to a year or decade. If there is a car or engine I like that is a bit newer, it will be on the layout. Here are some things I want to include:
- A small town
- Some mountains
- I want a look of the trains going somewhere, but realize I may have to rely on imagination in a room less than 12 x 12
- Coal trains and operating accessories
- Logging trains and operating accessories
- Mixed freight
- Passenger trains
- An area of operating accessories for future grandchildren which could be at a lower level than the rest of the track.
- There are more I will add as they come to mind or as you ask questions.
Some thoughts on how to accomplish this in such a small space. As the preliminary SCARM diagram shows. There is a sliding glass door on the right-hand wall as you enter the door from the rest of the basement. I need to keep full access to it. My thoughts have been a ‘U’ shaped layout with the open end of the ‘U’ facing the door. There are 2 windows as well. I do not want to be stretching across the layout, but may have to have turnback loops at the ends of the ‘U’. To accommodate my Premier N&W J 611, Weaver Gold Edition B&O Cincinnatian, and their consists, I think I would have to include a loop around the room. My thoughts have been to put that at the highest level, with lift-out bridges at the opening of the ‘U’.
These are initial thoughts that have been with me for a good while. It is time to put them out there for anyone who wishes to participate to ask questions, give suggestions, or just chat in general. At the outset, I want to thank everyone who contributes in any way. I want to get this close to what works best for me, because I do not want to count on doing heavy rebuilding at a later age. At 60, I realize I could be hampered in the heavier construction sooner than I would hope.
Mark,
As I've looked through the posts, I get the sense that you are more of a scale guy than a tinplater. If I'm right, than I'd really urge you to think about the scenes you want to depict almost before the track plan. Do you want that beautiful "J" to just go around a loop or do you want to use smaller engines like your PRR H and try to model a small branch line. Do you want to get serious about scenery or just "run trains?" Either way is valid and fun. It's about what will give you the most pleasure that matters..
I've been running a 13 1/2 x 15 foot layout for years which into a more toy like layout because my young grandchildren just love all the Lionel operating accessories. But we're about to construct a new master suite with a bonus 19 x 25 train room underneath it. So I'm going to try to design and build this in phases because it already feels overwhelming just to think about everything from layout design to flooring, lighting and where to put in a work shop. The folks on this forum have been wonderfully helpful, as I see they've been to you.
My room won't be ready for at least 6 months, but my first consideration will be how far apart to space the LED "florescent" lights, both laterally and longitudinally and want what "heat" level to use. The late Jim Barrett had a wonderful piece on this but did not deal with spacing the fixtures. So any ideas or experience will be very welcome.
Good luck with your layout. I look forward to comparing notes and sharing ideas with the group and you as our layout plans come together.
RubinG, congratulations on your pending room. My fortunes are similar to you in that I have a newly constructed room for my layout. For lights I used track lighting that swivel; and more can be added. Give consideration to outlets; not only in the walls but the floor too. What type of HVAC will there be, and are there humidity issues?
Dennis, for me the most finicky was one of the H9 Consolidations. All three H9s are MTH Premier, so I assume used the same tooling. However, the pilot of one is lower than the others. I learned a lesson, try every engine you have. The same goes with side clearances. Cab roofs and the long porch on the SD40-2 needed more clearance than the middle of the longest cars.
Rubin, thank you for reading through and commenting! You are right, I have always been a scale guy. I had no one in the family interested in trains, so I first got interested by looking at some Model Railroader magazines in the late '60s. I only switched from HO and N scales to O gauge 3-rail 10 years ago. The HO trains were too small for me to see the details and I had no room for O scale 2-rail. It was only when I saw MTH PS2 trains that I decided to move to this. If you haven't noticed, I really struggled with the small amount of trains, structures, and scenery I could fit into an 11x11 room. Even as I have all the benchwork done and track laid, I still think I could have made a better plan. The H9 is the dominant engine. I sold the J a while back. The H9 makes a nice steam engine to run in a small room. I do have some scenes from the Thomas Subdivision of the Western Maryland Railway that I want to replicate in a very compressed manner, but I want to get the wiring all in and tested before I get too far into those. Even a small layout has taken longer than I would have thought. Please keep reading and commenting.
As far as lighting goes, I put in two units that aren't track lights, but are 4 swiveling LED lights on arms that swivel. The lights themselves are at a fixed distance from each other. They don't work as well as I would have liked, but regardless, I need more lighting. It's always something.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:RubinG, congratulations on your pending room. My fortunes are similar to you in that I have a newly constructed room for my layout. For lights I used track lighting that swivel; and more can be added. Give consideration to outlets; not only in the walls but the floor too. What type of HVAC will there be, and are there humidity issues?
Jay Francis,
I’m concerned that track lighting won’t be as effective as four foot fixtures, but I’m open to ideas. Basically I’m thinking of an E shaped track plan with a folded dog bone around the the outer “c” and a yard/ switching area in the middle. Should I place row of lights over each leg? As to outlets, I am thinking about a fourplex every six feet. As to the middle of the floor, my builder had discouraged this, saying it will very costly. Any thoughts?
HVAC WILL BE A UNIT JUST FOR THE NEW addition and I anticipate that I’ll need to run two or three dehumidifiers to maintain 50%. Again all thoughts are welcome.
thanks
@Mark Boyce posted:Dennis, for me the most finicky was one of the H9 Consolidations. All three H9s are MTH Premier, so I assume used the same tooling. However, the pilot of one is lower than the others. I learned a lesson, try every engine you have. The same goes with side clearances. Cab roofs and the long porch on the SD40-2 needed more clearance than the middle of the longest cars.
Rubin, thank you for reading through and commenting! You are right, I have always been a scale guy. I had no one in the family interested in trains, so I first got interested by looking at some Model Railroader magazines in the late '60s. I only switched from HO and N scales to O gauge 3-rail 10 years ago. The HO trains were too small for me to see the details and I had no room for O scale 2-rail. It was only when I saw MTH PS2 trains that I decided to move to this. If you haven't noticed, I really struggled with the small amount of trains, structures, and scenery I could fit into an 11x11 room. Even as I have all the benchwork done and track laid, I still think I could have made a better plan. The H9 is the dominant engine. I sold the J a while back. The H9 makes a nice steam engine to run in a small room. I do have some scenes from the Thomas Subdivision of the Western Maryland Railway that I want to replicate in a very compressed manner, but I want to get the wiring all in and tested before I get too far into those. Even a small layout has taken longer than I would have thought. Please keep reading and commenting.
As far as lighting goes, I put in two units that aren't track lights, but are 4 swiveling LED lights on arms that swivel. The lights themselves are at a fixed distance from each other. They don't work as well as I would have liked, but regardless, I need more lighting. It's always something.
I'm a Pennsy buff and run an H/9, H-3, A5, B-6 and C-1 switchers as well as RS-1- SW-1 and RS-3s from MTH (not all at once!), PRR PA-1 and F-3. And of course the NYC counterparts for when I’m so moved.
As to N&W, if you haven’t already done so, check out whatever you can find of O. Winston Link’s photos. You’ll find great and evocative ideas for scenic vignettes.
Ruben, I have seen O. Winston Link's photographs. They are fantastic!
Mark,
You probably know this already, but I’ve been amazed by the lighting arrays Link had to use to get his night shots. Hundreds of bulbs, dozens of fixtures, time delay, etc. Amazing!
@Mark Boyce posted:Dennis, I agree. My grades are approximately 4%. I can’t say how many times I tore apart and rebuilt the grade on the K-Line trestle bents and the top and bottom of the grades for a smoother transition from level. I haven’t even really started scenery yet. 🤷♂️
Scenery is usually one of the last things I thought? One thing that I'm curious about is ballast after scenery by the rails, or is it a mesh of the two depending on what exactly you're adding? I would imagine ground layers, ballast, finish with details like grass, plants and trees if that is what you're doing. Even though I haven't started anything at all, that is what is burning in my head.
What do you intend to do Mark? Guessing that ballasting may not be on your agenda?
Rubin, I remember reading about the massive lighting Link used. It was worth the effort.
Dave, don’t let it burn in your head too long, or you may lose some circuits like I did! 😄😉
I prefer to not ballast until after all but the last scenic details are in. That way the ballast looks like a well groomed main line. Then I would add some weeds along lesser used sidings, sand on the grades, some coal in the yard. I painted all the roadbed light gray before laying track so it isn’t so noticeable until the time comes for ballast. I picked that idea up from something someone wrote several years ago.
Speaking of roadbed, I’ve always used cork. But I just found a box of Homabed in my store room. It’s probably 40 years old. Does anyone have any experience using this stuff?
Rubin, I have not used Homabed, but I have used Homasote on previous layouts. I did have a 12x4 sheet of Homasote stashed that I cut up for roadbed for my present layout. (I didn't know such a large sheet was ever available) I then lightly glued Midwest cork roadbed on top of that for the beveled edges to make it easier to ballast and retain the nice slope. With just a little carpenters glue, I am able to pull the cork off and reuse it when I make changes. I like Homasote and found it pretty easy to cut with a sharp carpet laying knife. That makes no dust and only takes a few passes with the knife. I would think Homabed would have all the great qualities, plus give the beveled edges and save on the cutting. As far as the age of your Homabed, I wouldn't worry that would make a difference over new. I acquired this 12x4 sheet by tearing apart a large table that was left behind in a house my mother-in-law bought. The previous owner was a seamstress, and had a hefty home made 12x4 table for laying out projects. The Homasote held dress maker's pins, as I could see pin holes in it. She had lined drawn across it at 1-inch intervals, which made it easy measuring to cut for the layout. I used a lot of the wood from the table for my layout. The point is, that sheet of Homasote was decades old, and worked well for me.
Here's an example.
Attachments
I know I’m a little late with this, but I’m glad to hear how well you’ve done post surgery. Happy to see you back in the saddle so to speak. 😉
Looks good Mark. Glad to see that you’re able to reuse so much material for the layout. One thing that I’ve used when cutting Homasote is a knife blade for a jigsaw. It cuts well with no dust.
Your wiring for the AIU’s is outstanding. A goal for most of us to try and emulate.
As far as switch control, I have some rocker switches set up around the layout that I have in front of the switch I’m controlling. I tend to follow the train around anyway, and that keeps me involved with the action. I can see the benefit of using an AIU to control the switches through DCS. Just my two cents.
Andy
Andy, I'm glad you are back. I am back in the saddle, albeit a very padded saddle!
This is my first go at powered switch machines of any sort. In the past, I just switched them manually. Here, I needed them since some switches are on opposite sides of the lift up bridges, so I wanted remote control. I probably will use the pushbuttons that are within easy reach, so that means most of the switches.
Thank you for the compliments on the wiring. As I added more terminal blocks and wires for the switches, things got crowded very fast. I still have 4 more switches to wire, but here is how it looks today.
I do have to report that the switches I have wired work great! I did have to do some rewiring, as I reversed polarity of the relay boards when I decided to move them to the 12-port terminal board that I added in the middle. The 24-port board on the right side is for the DZ1000 switches. I could have gotten by with three 12-port boards and one 24-port board, but I had the 24-port boards, so I used them. Room for expansion.
Attachments
Mark, that to me is fine art.
Thank you, Steve!!
One thing, I forgot to mention. I have two drawings that I will redraw when everything is working. I also need to label each AIU, terminal block, etc. I can remember what is what right now. However, if everything works well for a while, experience tells me I will forget what something is once I do have to troubleshoot something. If I put labels on ahead of wiring, I would probably end up covering some labels with wires and have to relabel anyway. I didn't take a photograph, but I got the second GRJ Watchdog generator installed on the outputs of the TIU that are all on the reverse side of this board. I want to get some Velcro sticky back to attach them to the board, since they are just hanging by the leads right now.
I don't know anything about DCS Mark, but it looks like you have a fine wiring all set up for control.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I don't know anything about DCS Mark, but it looks like you have a fine wiring all set up for control.
Dave, Thank you! Remember, looks can be deceiving. However, in this case things are working pretty well.
I'm waiting for someone to ask about lights in all my buildings. I have never done that before, so that will be another item to plan out, But I am going to get rolling on scenery before that. 
Well, lights would only apply mostly for buildings that are open at night or round the clock. Sure some may have lights for late afternoon, but it really depends on what you want lit. Inside lights, outside lights, guess it will just boil down to how you want to go with it. I know that if I ever get things going, I would want to see if I could play around with fake moonlight for night scenes. While this would only be for shots, there is a lot to consider. I would figure something like indirect light, meaning light being shot up to the ceiling and coming off of that to light as opposed to it shining down from the ceiling. Again, just something to think about now.
Dave, my guess is that we will move to a single level home before I get to putting in lights. At this point, I think I would save portions of the layout I like, and salvage wood, track, and structures for a new layout. Oh, can't forget salvaging the trains!!!!!!
Always save the trains Mark. Did you ever see the video on 4501? I think there was a picture of all the steam engines(Mikado's) lined up on tracks getting ready to head to scrap. Save the engines, save the engines!!!! Oh, and rolling stock, lol.
Mark that is looking really great, keep up that great work I am working on my control panel switch and turn table rotary switch wiring with LED's for each whisker track 38 of them. Can you email me how you wired the Remote Commanders into the TIU's I have 4 of them that I will be installing GRJ Watchdog circuits in and not sure how to wire them into the TIU? I am also rewiring that rotary switch as I do not like how it looks at first we used 16 gauge wire nd I am rewiring it with 24 gauge and cleaning up the routing also. Keep up the great work Mark.
Attachments
Images (3)
Rick, your control panel really looks great!!!
I had two double banana jacks from ages ago, so I used them. I bought two more, but the ones I bought won't let you plug another banana jack into it like the old ones. So, I wired a new one and an old one together, then was able to plug the banana jacks going to the terminal blocks into them. I do not know what you call each of the two different types. I bought the new ones from Digi-key.com. You could use something other than double banana jacks, but since I had the two already it works.
Attachments
@Mark Boyce posted:Rick, your control panel really looks great!!!
..., but the ones I bought won't let you plug another banana jack into it like the old ones. I do not know what you call each of the two different types....
Banana quitter and banana splitter?
@SteveH posted:Banana quitter and banana splitter?
In over 45 years in electronics, I never heard those terms, Steve! 😟
Sorry, I guess that's another Bad Dad Joke. It's all made up and the points don't matter.
@SteveH posted:Sorry, I guess that's another Bad Dad Joke. It's all made up and the points don't matter.
No, that’s a good joke! 😆
A forumite emailed me asking about the double banana plugs. He had picked out the right part. I only thought of using them because I knew I had a couple on hand. They are easy enough to purchase, but if I hadn't had them on hand, I probably would have just put large spade lugs on the wires for the Watchdog generators and tightened them under the TIU output binding posts. There is always more than one way of doing things like that.
Funny you mention labeling wires Mark. In my younger days I could remember exactly where each wire went and what it controlled. I guess those brain cells are no longer in operation so labeling and making a schematic are important.
Bob
Attachments
Images (1)
Ha ha, Bob! I like the minion with the bananas! There were so many times at work the last few years that I would work on something, make notes, then not see it for a year. When it came up again, even my own notes didn’t make sense! 🤷♂️
I should add this comment I made on the "What did you do on your layout today" topic for those who have complimented my wiring. "Yes, I have had to take more than one circuit apart because I connected wires to the wrong place. Reminds me of some comments Bob and I had on the Retiring topic." 
Banana jacks. Had heard of them but no idea of how used. Look a lot better than trying to connect with ends that don’t fit well.
Building lighting. It can be a fun way to enjoy a change of pace and is surprisingly easy to install and control unless you want to get exotic. We have searched for “easy exotic”, an easy way to control different rooms, lights, etc without much success.
Arduino is not in our vocabulary and is often mentioned.
So we opted for about seven choices while awaiting the magic box that will offer more options at a reasonable cost. We control the lights through the AIU/remote.
All of our buildings, structures are lighted. The roundhouse has over 100 LEDs with separate control over each stall plus the outside lights. We primarily use LEDs from Dave at Evan Designs. They cost a bit more but he backs them up and is always helpful.
If you want some ideas, give us a call.
Your wiring is exceptional.
Thank you, Bill! We used banana plugs a lot in electronics years ago for a quick connection on test equipment or other devices. The binding posts on the TIU are the typical double banana jack made to plug them into. Nowadays, so many devices have an Ethernet jack to plug a laptop into instead of using test equipment. How things changed during my 43 years working in electronics. I never got into programming anything or writing instructions like the Arduino takes, so I had no interest going that route. It is enough for me to learn how to use the AIU. In fact, I never heard of Arduino until I had retired and Forum members brought it up here.
Thank you for the offer of advice on building lighting. That will be down the road a ways.
I'm not quite finished with the turnout control wiring. Today I temporarily mounted the push buttons to the layout frame. I will do a better job when I put in a pretty fascia. There are 3 more done on the other side of the layout. These all work. I am going to make labels for them since so many are so close together. The three on the other side of the layout are spaced apart, so it is obvious which turnout they control. The remote control through the AIU works too. I just looked through everything for the two missing DZ1002 pushbuttons, but didn't find them. Maybe they fell down behind something. 
So wiring is almost done with the last two.
I'll be glad to put away the wire strippers and crimpers!! 
Attachments
Looks good Mark!
@Mark Boyce posted:I'll be glad to put away the wire strippers and crimpers!!
said no one ever!
Nice work Mark. I bet you are happy to have that project in the rearview
@RSJB18 posted:said no one ever!
Nice work Mark. I bet you are happy to have that project in the rearview
Yes, Bob, for a small layout this has dragged on way to long
That's a neat job you did there. Looks great! You must be a professional
Looking good Mark. Will you be able to get in there underneath or behind the fascia at the wires and such should that need arise? That's one of the things I always worried about, being able to get at where it is not so easy to get into. Most of my issues were not hobby related, but could have easily been so.
It looks good Mark! That has to feel good to essentially be finished with it!
-Greg
Thank you, Bill, Dave, Greg!!!
Bill, I do have a few years under my belt. However, after carpal tunnel surgery in each hand twice, a broken right hand, and arthritis in my thumbs, I do a lot of fumbling these days!
Dave, Yes, I can get under the layout when I pull out all the stuff I store underneath! I did all the wiring seated on my roll around stool from the operating area except for the two switches that still don't have pushbuttons. They are right behind the peninsula that has the control center. Yesterday, I pulled out the patchwork covered chest in the photograph and some boxes to the right of it to prewire the two switches that are on the lower level yard. I have a small creeper that is a bit hard to get back up from, but it gives me good access. Also, none of the plywood shelving under the other areas of the layout is fastened down. I can pull it out if I have to, but I made as many connections as possible near the aisle.
Greg, you can say that again!!
Lookin' good, Mark.
Once you put the fascia up, will you be running the wiring through the fascia to the pushbuttons for "extra credit" ?
Richie, I always did my extra credit work, just in case I bombed a test! Yes, I decided not to drill holes for the wires now, but will do that once the facia goes up. I'll then decide if any should be in different positions, but am sure I will put them up a little higher.
Mark,
I'm with you on the wiring. It must be done and must be done correctly but it's my least favorite things to do. I'm glad to see you're getting close to being finished with the turnout wiring. That's quite a milestone.
Dave
@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you, Bill, Dave, Greg!!!
Bill, I do have a few years under my belt. However, after carpal tunnel surgery in each hand twice, a broken right hand, and arthritis in my thumbs, I do a lot of fumbling these days!
Dave, Yes, I can get under the layout when I pull out all the stuff I store underneath!
Greg, you can say that again!!
Mark, I feel your pain. After bi-lateral knee replacement surgery and more, I’m trying to figure out how to design my new layout and what flooring to put in. Any thoughts, anyone?
Thank you, Dave and Rubin!
Rubin, I have no suggestions. My floor is still concrete. At least the rolling stool moves easily. I would like to put something down on the traffic area.
RubinG, if you are starting from scratch I would suggest a wooden subfloor instead of concrete. For the flooring I would suggest vinyl. Most of the area will probably be covered by the layout. What will save your lower extremities will be well placed fatigue mats for those areas where you will be standing for extended periods. Perhaps a draftsman’s chair with an adjustable seat and foot rest for operational comfort.
Mark, looking good!!!
Jay Francis,
Thanks for your response. I agree with your suggestion about linoleum with fatigue mats. But the structure has a new master suite above it. I don’t understand how we would do a wood subfloor. It is a basement room after all. Are you suggesting wood on top of concrete?
thanks in advance for your thoughts and help.
@RubinG Harbor Freight sells anti fatigue mats that are cheap. They're not top quality but you can slice them with a utility knife and the long term goal is not to crawl around under the layout anyway. I put them down on my concrete floor and I think they'll get me through the layout building stages. My knees aren't bad yet but concrete still hurts to kneel on. These have helped a ton. My only beef is they're a bit of a pain to sweep and run the shop-vac on but that's a small price to pay compared to kneeling on concrete.
@RubinG posted:Mark, I feel your pain. After bi-lateral knee replacement surgery and more, I’m trying to figure out how to design my new layout and what flooring to put in. Any thoughts, anyone?
My builder wanted to put carpet in the basement. Can you imagine all the sawdust, dirt, and gunk that would have been captured? We finally got them to do linoleum squares. The roll-around stool works great on that and you can sweep up with a broom and dustpan.
Mark - great progress! I am done with my current amount of wiring, but as each major section of the layout is constructed we go back to that.
George
Thank you, Jay, Jeff, Rubin, Bill, George!
Jeff, I'm glad to hear from you! What's it been, 2 or 3 years since I visited you and your layout? I hope you are well.
George, yes with a layout the size of yours, I would have approached it the same way. I would do the layout in sections.
Great discussion everyone! Thank you for participating. Yes, the floor is important, and more important the older we get. I agree with George, the carpet would always be a mess while building the layout. Something else would be good. Bill, I have looked at the anti-fatigue mats myself. I may buy a few for the operating area once I'm not rolling around on the stool. This house we are in was my wife's grandparents, and later parents when Grandma passed on. Once Kim's dad passed on, her mum wanted out and talked us into buying it for a sweetheart deal. That was just over 10 years ago. While her parents were living here they had some remodeling done. They had ceramic tile put in the laundry room and master bathroom. The train room was an addition built only to support he sunroom above. They only intended it for storage. The builder talked her into letting him leave a bunch of ceramic tile for this room; odds and ends from other jobs. My wife wanted me to put down the ceramic tile, but I knew that would make bumps for rolling around. During the summer a year ago, I dragged all the tile out of the shed, scrubbed them up from 10 years of who knows what in the shed and discovered what a mix match he had left. I also realized there were several different sizes. I counted 4 different sizes from 11" to 12 1/2 inches. There aren't even quite enough to finish the room even if they were all the same size. So I showed my wife; in my opinion he just dumped his refuse on Mum and Dad. I have them stacked under the layout, and should have carried them down and dumped them at my dad's house when we had someone in to clean out all the old junk. Maybe the ceramic tiles will be passed on whenever we leave this house.
All that to say, while it isn't pretty, the concrete floor allows me to roll around easily, and the shop vac works great. My wife bought me a very firm cushion that helps my damaged sciatic nerve when sitting on a hard chair. Since I can only kneel on one knee, and then for a short time, it works better on the floor than my strap on knee pads. I worked on my knees way too much over the years, that is for sure. I should have taken note to the trouble my brother-in-law's uncle had with his knees. He was a carpet layer.
Looking good Mark. The flooring is an important consideration both short and long term. I went with a short nap Berber carpet. And there have been some sawdust and other messes, but I can vacuum them up easily. I think it’s better for my knees and back. Another plus is that if I drop something, chances are it won’t break as badly with a harder surface. But these are all trade-offs. Everyone should select what work for them.
Andy
Andy, excellent point about dropping things. I destroyed the Menards truss bridge, which is delicate like a lot of our models, on the cement. I have thought of a short nap carpet as well. The carpet squares would be easy to put down since I already have the layout up.
Hi Mark,
Great idea with the carpet squares! I had just epoxied the cement floor to keep cement dust down. Which I think is working also for my wife as there is also less dust up in the living quarters. My thoughts are to either put down some fatique squares or some carpet runners where there is walkway. I kinda of like the idea of using a rolling stool to run trains, however that would be better just on cement. I know the concerns of dropping expensive items as I have the dropsies more often than not... Great progress on your layout and the wiring is outstanding!
Happy Thanksgiving
John
@Aegis21 posted:Hi Mark,
Great idea with the carpet squares! I had just epoxied the cement floor to keep cement dust down. Which I think is working also for my wife as there is also less dust up in the living quarters. My thoughts are to either put down some fatique squares or some carpet runners where there is walkway. I kinda of like the idea of using a rolling stool to run trains, however that would be better just on cement. I know the concerns of dropping expensive items as I have the dropsies more often than not... Great progress on your layout and the wiring is outstanding!
Happy Thanksgiving
John
‘Ive been debating between carpet squares and linoleum. I’ve always used fatigue runners too. My concern with carpet is that rolling tools and me will be more difficult and the carpet is bound to get stained when I do scenery. Any thoughts?
Thank you John and Rubin. My only experience with carpet squares was at work. They had them in all the office areas when I went to work at the phone company at the beginning of 1997, and most of the same ones they were still there when I retired in 2019. As a technician, I rolled a cart with equipment over them, then half way through I moved to engineering. The hard plastic mat wasn’t necessary under office chairs, they rolled fine. Yes, some got stained over the years with coffee and pop spills the rug cleaners couldn’t remove. They had extra squares that they used to replace badly stained ones, but it wasn’t necessary very often.
I have finished wiring in all the turnout DZ1002 pushbuttons. Joe Fauty sent me some. That is one of the great things of this Forum, so many folks help each other.
I started wiring in the GarGraves uncouplers. There aren't many and they are very straight forward. I'm just drilling a hole in the layout frame to secure the pushbuttons right in front of the particular uncouplers. It is working fine. IT looks like I will have just enough of this smaller gauge wire. I forgot to get a photograph, but there isn't much to see anyway.
Mark, wiring is just a process that may not need photographs for unless there is something being done that hasn't been done before, or there is a big explanation that just can't be done with words.
I had asked Gerry what his layout was up to and why nothing updated. His reply was wiring, not much to show there. That made sense to me, so no photos needed. Now if you were wiring something up that worked with the switch as it was activated somehow and made magic, now that would need photos.
Hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving. Now the mad dash to Christmas starts.
It's funny how tasks like this--unglamorous and tedious--make up a fair portion of layout building. It's hard to think of them in terms of enjoyment, but they are necessary prerequisites for the enjoyment.
it's all progress, Mark!
No photo? There is always something to see… well, maybe uncouplers are kinda dull.
But good job getting them done.
Will they work with an AIU? Or is this a good place to assume that someone will be standing there doing the operating? Mark you have stirred up a debate between Paula, Rich, and me, especially regarding how to handle the yards. Thanks.
When we planned the train room, we read a lot and ended up with wood flooring, black ceiling, backdrops from Backdrop Warehouse, and Phillips LED floodlights. We have been pleased with the outcome.
Thank you Dave, Steve, and Bill.
I’m reminded of someone on the Forum who said “if there isn’t a photograph, it didn’t happen! “ 😆 I agree with all of you. Nothing new to show on what I’m doing now.
Bill, I thought about the AIU momentary control, but thought what you mentioned that I’ll be right there making sure the cars are in the correct position to be uncoupled, so the push button is easy. I stirred a debate! 😄 I have never had a yard and don’t know just how that would work. It sounds like you three have come up with different ideas.
Wood flooring is one no one mentioned until now. I used wood flooring when it was already there in a previous house.
Mark, I am glad you got them all done! Maybe it will keep you out from under the layout for awhile! But since you like wiring so much, I wish you were closer so you could help with some of mine! LOL
Mike, thank you! If I was helping you, I could stay at the padded seat at the panel, and you could go under the layout! 😉😉
Hey Mark, glad all the GG uncouplers went in and got wired up. I was thinking of you today when I was down installing some magnets for Kadee uncouplers. Found a few more Gargraves uncouplers, but I don't have the energy or motivation to cut them out and then have to re-do the trackwork !!! When I had them installed I used the same logic which was put the momentary push button in close proximity to the uncoupler as I would want to be there to switch cars.
Chris, you should try N scale Kadees. I put them on all my N scale cars 30 years ago, but had trouble with the uncoupling magnets. Of course I knew no one to ask at the time. I ended uncoupling with a plastic stick.
I thought of you when I was working on the uncouplers. I need to cut the track for one more I didn’t think about when laying the track. Thank you!
Plastic stick uncoupling is often used by scale modelers who do a lot of switching. You’re not as confined as with fixed uncoupled and they certainly beat using your hands.
im contemplating converting my freight cars to Kadees on my new layout.
You are quite right, Rubin. I haven’t tried O scale Kadees, but I’m sure they are much easier to work with than the N scale ones I used 30 years ago. Actually, I’m quite used to the big klunky O gauge couplers now.
Mark, I modeled in N about 50 years ago (yikes!), using the standard N couplers of the time The paint jobs were gorgeous, but the mechanicals are another story. But
with the dexterity and eyesight we probably both share today, I can’t imagine doing N scale today. I also really enjoy the heft and size of O. But for now, I’ve got to dismantle my layout , pack and store all my trains, so that my new train room basement, er…my wife’s new first floor bedroom and kitchen may be built.
@Mark Boyce posted:I have finished wiring in all the turnout DZ1002 pushbuttons. Joe Fauty sent me some. That is one of the great things of this Forum, so many folks help each other.
I started wiring in the GarGraves uncouplers. There aren't many and they are very straight forward. I'm just drilling a hole in the layout frame to secure the pushbuttons right in front of the particular uncouplers. It is working fine. IT looks like I will have just enough of this smaller gauge wire. I forgot to get a photograph, but there isn't much to see anyway.
Hi Mark,
I may have missed you post on uncoupler locations, if I did my apologies. Where did you locate the uncouplers on layout and for what tasks will they be accomplishing?
Thanks
