Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Dave, I'm glad you got a chance to view the videos.  I like slower trains, in fact, that is one reason I went with HO when young, because all the Lionel trains I saw then were run fast.  Of course that was at the end of the postwar era, where slow speed control wasn't available.  The slower train makes the trip seem longer and the layout larger.  It takes almost 3 minutes to go around the small layout.

I considered the Altoona Model Works Station a step to build up to the more intricate Carolina Craftsman Kit station I have.  This one has been straightforward, so far.  Yes, Western Pennsylvanians are pumped up over the Steelers seemingly impossible entry to the playoffs.

Just caught up with everything.......I love the video with the Western Maryland heavyweight consist......MTH can motors with traction tires and speed control make it effortless!

I look forward to mare progress....

Peter

@Mark Boyce posted:

I like slower trains,

This is one major difference between operating as a kid and operating now. Now I love the slow train when I run the modern stuff. It looks realistic and I like hearing the defined chuffs instead of the clatter of cars rolling along. I don't know how many times I rolled my poor 4-4-2 off the track as a kid because I was setting land speed records.

The old heavy post war engines have their own sounds when you turn up the throttle though! No railsounds needed haha

Thank you Peter and Bill!

Peter, I'm glad you liked the videos.  You are right, these engines do a great job compared to what we had growing up!

Bill, I said something similar at the Zelienople club meeting last evening.  We are planning a small modular layout with several loops.  Someone asked if we were going to put in switches.  We agreed for a modular setup for the public we wouldn't.  My comment was that kids just want to see trains go round and round; and yes, the faster the better. 

Great videos Mark! The older I get, the slower I go and so do my trains... LOL

I hear you well on that, John!!  Thank you, I’m glad you liked the videos.

I have been experimenting with different trains.  I discovered I do have enough time to switch a train while the other traverses the layout.  For instance, The log train was on the main line when the passenger train passed it using the passing siding.  While I let the passenger train circle the layout, I moved the log train to the passing siding.

Last evening I pulled a Premier PS2 B&O Mike and caboose off the shelf for a first ride on the layout.  I haven't setup a train with it yet.

Here is the latest on the Altoona Model Works Branch Line station.  It is really a Masonite box with sheathing attached.  I intend to put it on the corner as you walk in the door replacing on old Lionel freight station.  I'm not going to try to open the freight doors to detail inside the loading area, but will make the roof removable and detail the freight desk area inside the bay window at a later time.  There will be a nice dock around all 4 sides that can be detailed with all kinds of stuff and people as time permits.

Coming along nicely, Mark!!!

Peter

Mark you are making great progress and it really looking good keep up the great work.  At the rate you are going you may have to un retire to keep busy with the layout finished!🤣😄🚂🚂

@Mark Boyce

Awesome layout so far, by the way as i know you been looking at the early design of mine your way further along than me but i am actually following your topic, i got 60 pages to read to see all the things you did on yours. I am going to take any lessons learned and examples especially with your scenary designs and your track elevations with the foam and woodland scenics project because we have decided to engage elevating my main line at this point which i plan to incorporate your elevation idea you did as far as materials and how to do it. Your layout is very similar to my space and this helps me understand what i can do and to see yours running is also huge encouragement to me because i know at some point i will be running trains just like you! As i look at yours run i envision take it slow, do it right , test it as i go and dont jump into things take my time as this isn't a rush hobby.

What i did do, to tickle my itch of having a train run, i have lots of fast track i took down and some lighted christmas fasttrack i lay on the floor to just run my locos and watch them steam, even just something as simple as watching them steam and run keeps is something that i really enjoy. It doesn't take much with this hobby to make me happy

Mark,

The building is coming along quite nicely. Keep us posted when you get to the next step.

Dave

Thank you, Peter, Rick, Dave Hall, Dave Luvindemtrains!

Rick, I certainly hope I don't have to unretire!  I can certainly keep busy with something!! 

Dave Hall, There are certainly lessons to be learned on this 63 pages.  I mentioned a few on your design topic.  You are learning well.  You will see in these 63 pages how I scrapped one plan before building benchwork, started a second plan, only to move to a larger room, then abandon the larger layout space when our older daughter couldn't move her piano and other furniture as planned.  Some concepts held through the whole time, and others were developed.  Also, you will see on Plan D (the current one) that I added track features after track was laid according to the SCARM plan!  I'm glad to have you following along!!!!

Dave Luvindemtrains, I will keep updating the progress on the station.  I hope to use it to build confidence on laser cut structures to tackle the Thomas, West Virginia station kit from Carolina Craftsman Kits. 

Now that is some great stuff Mark. Whenever I get mine built, there'll be two main lines and some sidings, a shorter inner loop for whatever purpose I guess I could use. There's supposed to be a river coming up on that end so I need 3 bridges(short) to have over there. Of course it would be great if I had the room cleared and was building, but been sick for a spell and nothing has been getting done in what spare time I have. This past weekend was really annoying with being sick, even missed Mondays work because of it. I guess I'll be tuning in some football this weekend in my spare time as well. I just need to recover I guess.

Mark the station is a nice addition.

Model Tech Studios offers some nice pieces for a station… train dispatcher, REA agent sorting mail, etc. Not cheap but what we have purchased appears to be quality stuff and looks good.

Glad to see the progress continuing.

Thank you, Dave and Bill!

Dave, I'm sorry you have been under the weather and hope you get back to normal soon.  I've sure had some times recently where I didn't feel like doing anything on the layout, or wasn't even supposed to go down to the train room.  Take a load off and root on you favorite team(s) to victory!  In these parts, folks are sad the season is over for the Steelers, but I think most are proud of what they did considering the needs they had at certain positions and players' health.  #7 can now join #12 in the discussions on which was the best QB.

Bill, I looked at the first couple pages of Model Tech Studios O scale items and bookmarked the page.  They do look great!  That is one advantage of a small layout, you can make it look presentable with less things.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Dave and Bill!

Dave, I'm sorry you have been under the weather and hope you get back to normal soon.  I've sure had some times recently where I didn't feel like doing anything on the layout, or wasn't even supposed to go down to the train room.  Take a load off and root on you favorite team(s) to victory!  In these parts, folks are sad the season is over for the Steelers, but I think most are proud of what they did considering the needs they had at certain positions and players' health.  #7 can now join #12 in the discussions on which was the best QB.

Bill, I looked at the first couple pages of Model Tech Studios O scale items and bookmarked the page.  They do look great!  That is one advantage of a small layout, you can make it look presentable with less things.

Yup, stinks on ice as the old saying goes. I told a few people at work that I've never had it that bad of what I had. Only person that would know I can't ask, mom. She knew how to fix you, just like all mother's.

Yeah, I wish I could get going on the layout, would be great to start working and moving along. I guess that will come in due time as they say.

As far as team, only one, Steelers born and bred I guess the saying would go. There are a few teams I'll watch because I love football. Big Ben will get to Canton. A remarkable career with tons of hits on him, and the ability to keep the dry alive. Almost sounds like a steam locomotive, keep on rolling as it were. See what comes.

Oh, BTW, be very interring to see how that station finishes up. I can remember in my HO days regretting gluing doors shut instead of having them open. Ah, but part of the mystery would be what's going on behind closed doors I suppose, eh?

Dave, about the doors.  These doors could be cut and placed in the open position.  I would assume the way to do it would be to cut a 1/16" or so below the valence windows so they have a non-opening frame underneath.  Then cut the remaining door in half and position them opening in so as not to foul the loading dock that still needs installed.  Here is a cropped photograph for a close up.  I'm going to add the door frame trim as is.  If I change my mind, I can always pop the doors out and start hacking away.

For now, my story is that it is rapidly going down to zero degrees tonight, and they closed the doors as soon as they are done moving something in or out. 

Mark Boyce, I sure enjoyed watching the above videos, especially the double header Western Maryland locomotives pulling the long string of beautiful coal cars with another Western Maryland pusher/helper locomotive and beautiful caboose trailing the train. The up and over plan is so cool. I enjoyed the chuffing rhythm of the trains, so relaxing. Your trains ran smoothly and showed no problems with your great track work. You’ve come a long way, yes your Black Water Canyon Railroad has come a long long way. Keep up the great work. You also have some really nice buildings and stations, awesome. Happy Railroading Everyone

I echo leapinlarry.   The smoothness suggests attention to detail and careful work when laying the track, doing the wiring, and maintaining the locos.

Thank you, Larry and Steve!

Larry, I liked the chuffing of all three engines as well.  In my teenage years, I always played the radio with the Pittsburgh Top 40 AM station playing while running my HO train or working on the layout.  Of course, the engines had no sound, and we couldn't pick up the FM station.  With engine sounds, I never play music but listen to the music of those nice sound systems MTH and Lionel have produced.

As all of us know, the builder of anything knows where every flaw is, but the viewer doesn't see them.  I did spend a lot of time on the track.  Memories of early 1980's N scale steam engines' poor running on the slightest flaw in track may have inspired me to putting in the effort now.  I am unhappy with a few places.  The grade on the K-Line plastic trestle bents is one area.  However, that is still considered temporary, so I quit fooling with it since every engine and car negotiates that area fine.  The lower lift up bridge is the major offender.  I tore that apart several times trying to shim everything to get a smoother transition from the table to the bridge on both ends.  Nothing derails anymore, so I quit fooling with it.  The cars make the still familiar clickety clack sound as they go over the joints, which brings back old memories.  The upper bridge hides the trains enough from the camera angle in the videos, so that wasn't so noticeable to the viewer.

How timely you both mention the track.  Last evening, I was running the B&O Mike and had trouble with both the pilot and trailing wheels derailing as I backed it out of the siding over switches.  It tracks fine going forward.  I haven't had that trouble with the Consolidations or the Decapod.  Maybe it is something with that engine, since I bought it pretty well used from a Forum member at a really generous discount, but have hardly run it.  I'll look into it some more.

Mark, please don't fret over things to much! I think your doing an outstanding job and your layout is coming along just great! You are correct that there are areas that we all want to fix but live with now as things seem to work. Those are things you fine tune when you are getting close to being done! LOL Like that ever happens! Either way I think you're doing a great job!

Thank you Mike!  I'm not fretting over it, the track is done; unless I find everything starts derailing on a turnout or something.  I've been pleased with the layout.  I would have liked a longer run, but I think I made about the most of the space I have.  Well, it's going down below zero again tonight.  Good to stay in tomorrow.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Mike!  I'm not fretting over it, the track is done; unless I find everything starts derailing on a turnout or something.  I've been pleased with the layout.  I would have liked a longer run, but I think I made about the most of the space I have.  Well, it's going down below zero again tonight.  Good to stay in tomorrow.

I know your not Mark, just trying to remind you to have fun!

Track work keeps the MOW crews employed Mark.

I recently made a minor repair to a section of track that was causing my Menards F7 to derail. Aggravating at first, but satisfying after.

Bob

Thank you, Mike and Bob!  You are two of my best supporters!!!!

Having fun!  Yes, that is why I'm going to look at the Mikado some other day.  I have other things planned for the layout today.

Yes, MOW employees need work too!  I've never been one who likes fixing things.  Maybe that is why I never really liked my chosen employment.  However, what job doesn't require fixing things to some degree?  Yes, The best part of fixing things, is being glad it is done!

The station looks sharp Mark! I like the color scheme, very nice.

Andy

@Mark Boyce posted:

Dave, about the doors.  These doors could be cut and placed in the open position.  I would assume the way to do it would be to cut a 1/16" or so below the valence windows so they have a non-opening frame underneath.  Then cut the remaining door in half and position them opening in so as not to foul the loading dock that still needs installed.  Here is a cropped photograph for a close up.  I'm going to add the door frame trim as is.  If I change my mind, I can always pop the doors out and start hacking away.

For now, my story is that it is rapidly going down to zero degrees tonight, and they closed the doors as soon as they are done moving something in or out. 

Yeah, it's been getting dang cold. The rain we had a week or so ago has filled the circle in the driveway, which is solid ice. When I was a young lad, spent many Winters on the ice of the brook by our house. My dad even tried to make a skating rink for my sister using just wood and plastic. Unfortunately two things made that fail, not cold enough and the plastic got a tear somewhere. Also, doors are better closed, shows that they have already moved all the freight out and about.

Thank you, Andy and Dave.

Andy, I think it matches the Western Maryland Railway prototype photographs I have seen pretty well.  Red and white with a little age, but still well maintained in the 1950s.

Dave, It's snowing now.  It is predicted for all day today and well into tomorrow.  It's another good day to stay in.  My brother and I used to go down to the crick in the woods and push a piece of wood around with brooms like we were playing hockey.  We didn't have skates, so we just wore our boots.  Wow, that was 50 years ago!!  I like your take on the closed doors.  I'm going with that scenario.  I finally found my sanding stick to clean out the bay window openings.  A file would have been hard to make a nice straight edge.

With this week's snow cleaned up a couple days ago and frigid temperatures outside, I worked on the Altoona Model Works Branch Line Station kit.  The roof is almost done, and the dock boards have been stained in the first photograph.

Here it is complete as designed by the kit makers.

To make the roof removable, I had to cut and install bracing at the right slope to match the ends and the center support.  I have a hole drilled through the floor for wires, but don't have LEDs yet to install wiring.  You can see the empty interior which will stay as is for now, since I don't have anything to put in it. 

Here it is in place on the layout.  I still want to streak the roofing some and tone down the wooden loading dock decking.  I think this station is actually a small freight and passenger station.  It will look pretty good there until I get the items needed to finish it off. 

I was looking over the Carolina Craftsman Kits Thomas, West Virginia station kit just now.  It has a two story section with a hip roof and a one story gabled roof section.  The walls are all brick laser cut into thin siding.  It will be a little change of pace.

There was one day this week that didn't snow or the temperatures weren't zero to mid-teens.  I visited my 91-year old parents that day, and never got the Styrofoam for scenery.  There are temperatures above freezing and little snow predicted for mid week, so I hope to get the Styrofoam soon.

Looking real good Mark. It takes two things to do what you are doing. Patience and Time!

Nice work on the station Mark. Weathering and detailing will add to it even more.

We got about 10" from yesterday's storm. The sun is out today but high temp is only 25 deg.

Bob

Mark the station looks great.

I won’t show this to Paula. If she sees the empty interior, she will be have a fit to help. Her specialty is doing the interiors including figures… and she does it well.

Keep up the excellent work.

The station looks great Mark! The colors are sharp, and the building is a nice representation. The deck adds a nice touch too. The middle brace might be a good place to hang some lighting. Look forward to the interior details.

Andy

We got about 16” yesterday. Finished cleaning up today after the plows went past last night. Enjoying some playoff football.  Hope you guys are too.
Andy

Your station looks great Mark!!

Nice work Mark.

Thank you, Curtis, Bob, Bill, Andy, Pat, Eddie!

Curtis, yes patience and time.  For me they go hand in hand.  Both are a lot easier to have now that I am not working!!

Bob, you are right; they will make it come alive!  I thought you may have gotten more snow than 10".  We got that 2 weeks ago.

Bill, no you shouldn't let Paula see it.    She does a great job!

Andy, I agree, the middle brace will be where the light will go.  Outside lights over the doors would be nice too.  I was glad to see Cincinnati won.  They have had a rough go of it over the years.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Curtis, Bob, Bill, Andy, Pat, Eddie!

Bob, you are right; they will make it come alive!  I thought you may have gotten more snow than 10".  We got that 2 weeks ago.

Very strange storm. 20 miles east of us got twice as much.

@RSJB18 posted:

Very strange storm. 20 miles east of us got twice as much.

I thought as much.  I saw someone on Facebook in the NYC-Long Island Area measured 21".  We get that with the Lake Effect snow off Lake Erie.  We get just the edge of it, Pittsburgh doesn't get it, and to the north of us...

@Mark Boyce posted:

I thought as much.  I saw someone on Facebook in the NYC-Long Island Area measured 21".  We get that with the Lake Effect snow off Lake Erie.  We get just the edge of it, Pittsburgh doesn't get it, and to the north of us...

My brother in law is west of Syracuse. They can have a bright sunny day, drive a few miles west and be in a blizzard.

@RSJB18 posted:

My brother in law is west of Syracuse. They can have a bright sunny day, drive a few miles west and be in a blizzard.

That is how the Lake effect works.  It drops snow in bands once you get a short distance from the lake.  I read a year or two ago, 4 of the 5 cities with the most snow are near Lake Erie.  Erie, Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse.

That is one smart station Mark. Looming great. Yeah, the snow was a big problem for me as well. Having no working tractor to plow doesn't help. I got stuck yesterday morning but managed to get free. If only I had train tracks instead of gravel.

Looks good, Mark - one or two old-fashioned green or black goose-neck LED lights might look good hanging on the outside.

Got two feet north of Boston - snowblower was working overtime !

Hi Mark, the station looks great! Very nice work!

I am sorry I did comment sooner but the INSPECTOR is sick and were still dealing with that!

Keep up the great work!

Thank you, Dave, Richie, Mike!!

Dave, I'm glad you got through the snow!

Richie, The green lamps are what I had in mind.  It seems I have seen more of them than black.

Mike, Don't feel bad.  I knew you were busy with the inspector.

@Mark Boyce Perfect !! Very Nice !

The station looks terrific, Mark. 

George

Thank you, Leandro and George!!

Mark that is a really sharp looking station great job love to see it when finish the final touch’s you mentioned

Thank you, Rick!!

I decided to replace the Styrofoam that I had been reusing with new Styrofoam.  There isn't a lot to see here, but I thought I would post anyway since it has been a few weeks since I wrote about the station.  This new Styrofoam has been easier to work with, and I did a better job of making 3 lift out sections so I can work on them without leaning over two tracks.  Each photograph shows one lift out section.  This time instead of building up a couple of layers and then gouging out the river bed in the rear, I cut pieces already form the depression.  I will just need to form it more to make river banks.  It's a start.

Good decision Mark. I was afraid of the other stuff after working with it on a Dept 56 display. Ended up tossing it.

Good move on the sections also. Looks as if will be a lot easier to handle. It will be interesting to watch how you proceed.

Reread the snow comments. My brother lives in Saugatuck, Michigan and used to get a lot of lake effect snow off Lake Michigan (east across the lake from Chicago). In recent years there has been far less snow, higher temps, and very high water levels.

Bill, thank you.

Yes, use on a Christmas display is exactly why my wife brought the other stuff home.  It was 'okay' in that instance, basically because it was white.   It was tough to reuse even for that.  I did wrap in plastic and stack 4 or 5 unused panels up in the attic, since it is cut for home insulation.  It will probably still be there when we get our daughter to clean out the attic when I can't crawl around in there anymore. 

How I proceed with the scenery sections is a work in progress.  First of all, I am not planning on making extra sections to change out.  The purpose is to pretty much finish each and only remove it if I need to get at any wiring.  Making a hand hold that isn't obvious to the viewer is an issue that stands out.  If there were going to be lots of buildings, I could just hide handles under removable buildings.  With the intent of at least one section being a wilderness area makes for a problem.  I could put in a couple of small trackside structures or a rock section that would hide handles.  For now, I am able to reach under the layout and push up on the Masonite bottom of each removable section to pop it up and then grab the front of the section.  We will see how things progress.  The only time I ever did this before was to cover a turnback loop with a tunnel.  In that case I just lifted the whole top off, which was no challenge at all.

Another problem is that I have the small river running from removable section to section.  Hiding seams with foliage, rock, or buildings isn't as hard as a seam across water.  I could make the river attached to the layout, but it is in the rear of the sections.  Also, there is one wire drop from the track to the #14 wire to the panel along the rear track.  If I made the river fixed to the layout, I would have to move or lengthen the drop.  We will see how all that progresses as well.

In all, I find the above challenges more interesting and fun than the challenges we went through wiring all this up. 

Everything is looking great Mark!  Glad you are able to start on scenery.  That is what makes a layout come to life!

Michael

Can’t get any simpler than that this…….

A suggestion, Mark....I always resisted the WS plaster cloth on my O scale layouts.  I used wood, window screen, joint compound, and staples.  With my new N scale layout, the extruded foam went perfectly with the plaster cloth, making it easy to shape features.  Like you, I got rid of most of the white styrofoam.  Too messy, difficult to carve.

I put all kinds of light weight stuff under the cloth to form the mountains.  Put it on wet, push-pins to shape it, brown paint for ground cover.  Used my old rock molds with sculptamold, carved many of the faces with a simple knife.   Then, just added multiple textures and colors, like all the guys do.

Anyway, just a thought.  Wanted to let you know that, with this stuff, it was easier than it used to be!

Best wishes,

Jerry

@Mark Boyce posted:

Another problem is that I have the small river running from removable section to section.  Hiding seams with foliage, rock, or buildings isn't as hard as a seam across water.  I could make the river attached to the layout, but it is in the rear of the sections.  Also, there is one wire drop from the track to the #14 wire to the panel along the rear track.  If I made the river fixed to the layout, I would have to move or lengthen the drop.  We will see how all that progresses as well.

In all, I find the above challenges more interesting and fun than the challenges we went through wiring all this up. 

Mark- a thought... you could create a small drop in the creek at each joint and cover the seam with rocks that overhang and hide the seam. A small waterfall, weeds, and brush would cover the remaining gaps.

Bob

A waterfall is an excellent suggestion:  it is one of a few scenic features that cuts transverse across a stream of water, it will accommodate a change in water level, and rocks and debris can mask the gap.   A related item is a shallow dam, such as was used for turbines to turn mill machinery. . . .

@JerryG posted:

...With my new N scale layout, the extruded foam went perfectly with the plaster cloth, making it easy to shape features...

Jerry, great looking N-gauge.  Hope that you will share more info about your well detailed N layout.

Hi Mark,

Great job on the station. Liked the roof being removable! Sorry for the late comments, finally getting caught up on some of my reading. I’m in rehab so all kinds of time to read, just don’t know how much I’ll remember lol

Very interesting on how you will have access with your scenery build. You always manage to come up with great ideas

good luck

Thank you, Michael, Rich, Jerry, Bob, Steve, John!!

Rich, your layout looks great!

Jerry, As a former N Scaler and HO scaler, your layout looks great!  I have a roll of plaster cloth on the shelf under the layout, that I bought a couple years ago to give a try.  I didn't expect it to take this long to get to using it.  Thank you for the great photographs of your layout.  That gives me inspiration to get at it with the plaster cloth on mine.

Bob and Steve, there are many small waterfalls along the real Blackwater Canyon as the Back Fork of the Cheat River falls many feet in a short distance coming off the mountain.  The largest falls is Blackwater Falls in Blackwater Falls State Park outside of Davis, West Virginia.  I am suspecting I will have to do a good bit of trial and error to get something looking acceptable.

John, Thank you on the station.  I'm glad you are catching up on reading while in rehab!  I sometimes had difficulty getting comfortable enough to read much in the first few weeks after my surgeries.  I hope you get going again quickly!

Looks like you're back on the roll Mark! Things are literally shaping up.

Dave

Looking good Mark, Like Dave said things are coming right along! I will be fallowing you along the way!

@Keystone posted:

Jerry, great looking N-gauge.  Hope that you will share more info about your well detailed N layout.

Thanks, Keystone!  Haha, always happy to show my layouts.  I'll try not to abuse Marks's thread, but ask any questions that come to mind.

I started with this.  With two large O scale layouts in the basement already, I was out of room.  We don't shoot pool anymore so N made sense, and the 1", 4X8 foam board sits on top of an old wood 4X8 on top of the pool table.  I added pieces on three of the four sides.

I ended up with this.  It's mostly foam, which I'd rarely worked with before.  Always wanted Yankee Stadium and lucked out finding an old model, perfect N scale at 1:160, which turned out to be the hardest kit I ever put together.

The table, with pieces added, is about 9x6.  Kato track is best, but for the yard and switches it is too large so I used Atlas flex track and switches.  They are all manual because the switch motors would take up too much room.  The slopes are mostly WS risers, taped over to look solid.

These buildings are mostly Outland Models.  No glue, fit precisely.  You need to add the lighting and paint.

These planetary cars are battery powered and look sensational.  You turn them on and off with a magnet.  Can't get them in O scale.

I love those WS buildings. Perfect details.  I also used their lighting system for the first time.  Ain't cheap, but gives you lots of flexibility while you're trying to decide where to place things.  They also have those single stick-ons that you can use with stuff that has no lights in them.

Jim at Bridgeboss provided the solution for my elevated line.  A lot of superglue, spray paint, and patience.

I run six trains at a time.  Three are conventional, three are DCC controlled.  Good sound and functions.  With N, you need AT LEAST two engines to pull long consists.  That's why DCC, so you can easily lash them up.

Sorry Mark, this came out longer than I thought, but hope you guys enjoy it.

Jerry

That looks great Jerry. Fits right in with your basement full of trains. I grew up with HO since I was an 8 YO. When I got back into the hobby several years ago and wanted to build a layout I decided on O since I always loved my father's old tinplate.

I'm sure Mark will agree.

@JerryG posted:

Always wanted Yankee Stadium and lucked out finding an old model, perfect N scale at 1:160, which turned out to be the hardest kit I ever put together.

Do you know who made the kit?

@PSM posted:

Do you know who made the kit?

Haha, sort of.  I can't find my original link.  It was a guy who was a big Yankee fan, serious graphics guy.  It's all finely printed cardboard that you have to punch out of flat sheets and fold into precisely cut slots.  It looks great, but hard to fit everything perfectly.  I used a lot of tape on the backsides, but very little glue.  A lady named Ellen on EBay said she had 20 left.  Her pal Joan lives in Westport, CT, and I live in CT.  They have a shop.  Joan ended up sending me the kit.  Cost was $100, including the shipping.  I did find our emails when we were arranging the sale.  I have Joan's email address.  I'm sure she'd be pleased to discuss a sale.  Let me know if you'd be interested.

Jerry

@JerryG posted:

Haha, sort of.  I can't find my original link.  It was a guy who was a big Yankee fan, serious graphics guy.  It's all finely printed cardboard that you have to punch out of flat sheets and fold into precisely cut slots.  It looks great, but hard to fit everything perfectly.  I used a lot of tape on the backsides, but very little glue.  A lady named Ellen on EBay said she had 20 left.  Her pal Joan lives in Westport, CT, and I live in CT.  They have a shop.  Joan ended up sending me the kit.  Cost was $100, including the shipping.  I did find our emails when we were arranging the sale.  I have Joan's email address.  I'm sure she'd be pleased to discuss a sale.  Let me know if you'd be interested.

Jerry

I may be interested in picking one up, can you pass on her email?  My email is in my profile.

Keystone, thank you for asking Jerry for more information about his N scale layout.

Jerry, thank you for posting the information, photographs, and videos of your really nice layout.  The Bridgeboss elevated track looks great, as does the Yankee Stadium.  Woodland Scenics buildings really look great, but they take up a lot of room in O gauge.  I have a couple, but sold a couple because I just don't have the room.

Things are really coming together Mark! Well thought out lift out section options.  I have a pop out section on my layout, and I’ll be using the pink extruded foam. It would be lighter in an awkward space. Would that be something for you to consider? It might make the sections easier to lift without the need of a handle.
The seams are a challenge for sure, but always a way to disguise them with scenery of some sort. I’m going to use a WS product that creates ripples or light waves on the water. Maybe that product can help hide the seams in the water.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!

Here is the 'uppermost' section with an extra 1" piece of Styrofoam glued to the underside.  That makes a 1" fall in the river right at the joint.  It gives me a rough idea of what I could do at the seam.  I don't know if the river will be that wide when done, but I gave myself room for a rocky bottom and banks.  As far as lifting it out of position. I can always reach under the layout, and push them up, then grab them from above.  I thought it would be neat to have something to lift them right out standing up straight.  The way I have been going, I don't want to have to get under the layout when I am feeling my worst. 

On a side note, I worked on the upper lift up bridge to get a better alignment in the down position.  I had settled for it coming to rest about 1/16" off in the pocket I made with wood blocks.  I had been nudging it over with my hand to give proper track alignment.  Now it falls right into place.

Great build Mark! Thanks for sharing your experience/journey with all of us. Some great advice throughout your entire thread. I only read a few pages but I’ll definitely be back for tips on my current rebuild. Keep up the great work!

@Mark Boyce I think you are having a lot of work done on your layout! great job!

Mark I got behind and just reread what you are doing.

Is it practical to hide some of the drop with rocks, ripples, etc past the waterfall. I was thinking about the James River and the fall line at Richmond and realized that the falls are partially hidden by the downstream features.

Is this for “emergency” use or will it be more often?

Thank you, Rich, Leandro, Bill!!

Rich, I'm glad you are reading through the thread.  Thank you for the compliment on the good advice.  I think the best advice comes from all of us pooling our knowledge.  Some folks have expert knowledge in one area, others in another area, and sometimes getting different ideas from different folks lets me decide what is the best solution for my situation.

Leandro, sometimes I think I haven't done much, then I look back at the dates a page or two back and see progress has been made.

Bill, First of all, I hope your knee replacement went well and you are progressing well in PT.

I know the James River at the fall line quite well.  I crossed the James River on the Boulevard (Nickel) Bridge going to and from work every day in 1976-77.   I worked for Vepco at an office just off The Boulevard.  Every day I had to go to the headquarters building downtown at 7th and Franklin to check things out at the microwave hut on the roof.  Then crossed the James River to the System Operator office in Manchester South Side, then back to the telecom office.  Those were the early days of telemetry, and the on site visit was necessary.  So, I made 4 river crossings every work day.  That said, I know what you mean, there isn't really an actual falls, just lots of small drops.  If you stand in a stream like that and look upstream, you see layer upon layer of flat water with little drops in between.  Based on what I did on the layout yesterday and just now, I think that is a good possibility here.

Yesterday, I looked at where I was going to have the stream pass under the upper track and to the backdrop.  Here is the prime location in my opinion.  I had a nice foam portal and wing walls that would nicely represent culverts on the prototype that let tributaries flow into the Black Fork.  I cut it to size to look like this.

I knew it would be partially covered by the foam base for the scenery, but was disappointed it looked like this.  I have trouble visualizing things.  I have to do it.

Of course trimming the banks back would help, but not enough.  Here are the other potential spots to the right of the one I planned.

The second photographs shows wires to the track above to the right of the culvert.  There is another pair of wires for the other track and wires for the DZ1000 back there as well.  That part of the scenery does need to be removable for maintenance only.

I ended up removing the extra section of foam that I added underneath two modules a few days go.  This looks much better, and will look better still once I carve out the banks a little more.

In the last photograph, the stream will curve around and under the bridge and off the front of the layout with low banks.

Bill, to answer your question the intent was to remove these only for maintenance.  A secondary thought was to remove them for actual construction.  Actually, there is no reason to remove the one in the left of the next to last photograph, because there are no wires there.  Yes, if I put buildings there, I could put lights in them, but the buildings will all be removable, and I'll put in plugs so the wires can be disconnected when removing the building.  Here is the only place of concern on the module with the culvert.

I could actually just make a small section of scenery removable to get at that.  That would allow me to not have to worry the water area being crossed by a seam at all.  Lots of folks say it is easier to work on scenery at the workbench, and then place the module on the layout.  I am able to touch the backdrop at every spot while standing at the layout edge, so it isn't like I would be stretching over anything to build scenery in place.  I don't have a workbench anyway.  Here is my "workbench".

If I need more table space, I have to pull my wife's car out of the garage and set up a card table to work on.  I don't know where I would store the module between work sessions anyway, except to move it back onto the layout and get glue and paint on everything while moving it.  That isn't a good idea.  So, I think I will just make small pull out sections of scenery where the wires are located.

At least that is the plan at this moment. 

Trial and error equals what appears to be a doggone good plan. Good job Mark. You have made a lot of trips across the James.

The knee. The Lord has handled this.

Walked into the house three hours after surgery. PT less than 24 hours after surgery, pain level never over a 3, took a cane in case I needed it, after P T had ice on my leg, “Mr Webb, you forgot your cane.”

Measurements that day were 113 flexion and 2 extension which the PT guy couldn’t believe. Monday they were 115 and 0. Saw the doctor’s PA Monday. Paula said that she had a funny look when I walked in. She said that I was so far outside the normal parameters that I was off the chart. We talked less than 5 minutes and she released me. “Call if you need anything.”

I was sitting on my train stool yesterday rolling around and working when it occurred to me that I might want to consider how to get up. Then I realized that I knew how to do so from my first knee surgery when I was finally able to use the stool after 3-4 months.

My doctor does what he calls a Jiffy Knee and doesn’t cut the muscle or tendon. If anyone is interested in info on him, send me an E-mail. Rich Holden who helps on the layout is a retired orthopedic surgeon. He has been amazed and told me that I don’t need PT,  can do two exercises, and should be ready to go in three weeks.

Good for you. I am bone on bone right knee. Staring into surgery. I will mention to my Doc your guys work.

Rich

Bill, Thank you on the trial and error!  I'm glad your knee is doing great!!!   Hooray!!   Hopefully they will be doing a Jiffy Knee if I need my other knee done someday.  The mess the scar tissue caused ended in much longer PT and was far more painful than the actual knee itself in my case!

Looking great Mark. I tried taking a look at my lunchtime but for some reason the net service was very spotty. All I got was the blue and gray background to show up and no conversation bits. Was taking forever to load so I figured I would have a look when I got home. Nice goings on.

It seems that all of us have trains and knees in common. It makes sense because, after all, our new knees include plastic, metal, glues, screws, construction, reconstruction and modeling. 😉HMMM!

Mark, your work is beautiful!

@Mark Boyce  @Bill Webb

Bill congrats on the successful replacement - you are poster boy for a successful outcome.

Mark nice progress on Blackwater. I am posting photos of my removable scenery on the main layout thread - don't want to usurp your thread.  Jeff

I really like the progress you are making.  It does seem slow at times - I'm finishing up a corner of my layout as well to get the upper level finished before I solder wires to the track and it seems like it's taking me forever but I do notice progress so hang in there.   I'm determined to take the lessons learned from my last layout to heart to avoid those headaches.  You're going about things the right way - take your time, figure things out and then get to building.   I'm in the same boat in that I'm a lousy artist and have trouble visualizing finished scene from a blank spot - I need lots of pictures and input from my artistic wife.

-Greg

Thank you, Dave, Rubin, Jeff, and Gregg!

Dave, bummer!  A boring lunch time!

Rubin, excellent comment about modelers and our knees!

Jeff, I saw your post over on the other topic.  Well done!

Greg, I think a slower pace lets me step back and look things over a bit and see places to make corrections, instead of plowing through with a lot of work, then facing the challenge of living with mistakes or removing a lot of work to make corrections.  Our older daughter is the one who could visualize and draw up things in her mind.

Looking really good Mark!  Thank you for the inspiration... after 16 months I'm finally there (sort of) for structures and scenery.  So many moments of lets change just 'one' more thing... but, all I have to do is check in on you and it keeps me plowing ahead.

@RubinG posted:

It seems that all of us have trains and knees in common. It makes sense because, after all, our new knees include plastic, metal, glues, screws, construction, reconstruction and modeling. 😉HMMM!

Mark, your work is beautiful!

If only, like trains, we could make our knees work via command control instead of conventionally !

Mark I'm liking the progress on your layout. Following your thread. I need some ideas once I finally get to landscaping my layout.

Both of my knees are giving me trouble. I finally had the right one checked out. After doc visit, x-ray's, MRI, ortho specialist visit and a little over a $1,000 outta pocket I received a shot in my knee. According to the ortho specialist my knee is in great shape. However the under side of my knee cap has severe deterioration, bone to bone and arthritis.

Only boring if I can't do anything Mark. There are some things I can manage to do on my phone during lunch. Net always seems spotty every now and then, lately moreso. Could be that they are working around in the area and that is why. Progress looks good, that's for sure.

About the river, when you do get around to that portion of work to be done, what sort of work would the river be or is that still on the drawing board? Just curious, but would definitely like to hear what you may/got planned.

Thank you, Dennis, Richie, RJ, Dave!

Dennis, I'm glad to give you some inspiration to carry on.  As anyone who followed this thread can see, I had the same issue wanting to get settled on the changes/additions to benchwork and track before moving forward with scenery.  Sometimes someone else on the Forum gives me that little nudge as well after seeing what he is doing.  I'll be looking forward to seeing how you scenic your nice layout,

RJ and Dave, sometimes I have a good idea of how I want to scenic, but on this layout I have to make so many compromises because of lack of space, those ideas have to be changed drastically.   After 10 years in O gauge, I still think like an HO modeler.  Dave, if you mean what material I want to use for the water feature, I still have no sure idea.  I'm thinking the poured epoxy like Woodland Scenics would be the best choice so you can see through the shallow water to stones  below.  The painted water surface and shiny coats painted on top seem to me to be best suited for deep water, lakes and harbors.  I do have to include my dad and his friend both catching trout, that I do know.    Dad's friend actually fished this area of West Virginia when he worked for Westinghouse at Mount Storm power station which my printed backdrop represents.  He actually got me the application in 1976, which after submitting it, I ended up getting hired to work in Richmond first.

Richie, I know the problem, the doctor forgot to give me the remote when he replaced my knee!! 

RJ, I took my dad to get a shot in his knee 3 or 4 years ago.  That was all he needed!!  He's 91 now.  The shots didn't do diddly for me.

On to the knees.  As with cataract surgeries, I was surprised at how many folks had to have them done in their early 60s like me.  My replacement was doing well at my 2-year checkup at the end of October; right before I went on Medicare.  Over the winter, it has started little popping and gritting and is more painful.  I just scheduled a visit with the orthopedic the week after next to see what that is all about, if anything.  Monday, I do have to get a myelogram and CT scan on my lower back to see why the sciatic nerve in my other leg still gives me grief.  The lumbar fusion was supposed to fix that.  Oh well, like I told the back orthopedic last week, I'm glad they pushed me to retire a couple years earlier than I was planning.  I don't have to worry about hassles missing so much work, or just slacking while there. 

When doing the water pour, refer to Eric's Trains video of his pouring of water. I watched that a great long time ago. Of course you have to do all the mud/creek bottom scenery before pouring as well as making sure not to shake the epoxy water as it will create bubbles. Eric used a pin to pop the bubbles that formed from his pour. I think two of the hardest things from doing that sort is pouring so little at a time as recommended on the package as well as the potential for dripping. Make sure you somehow seal the riverbed so it does not have room to leak. How to do that, depends really on how your riverbed would come together. Test pours elsewhere definitely would be something I know I would do because I would wind up making a huge mess, plus it will give you an idea how it will work when you go for it for real.

Dave, Thank you for the tip on Eric's video.  I haven't watched any of his videos for a long time, but those I saw were always very good.  I'll look it up.  I've read articles on the subject, but don't think I have watched any videos.  I am aware, the stuff will find the tiniest hole to go just like water, even though it is much thicker.  I'm thinking somehow, you have to do many small pours for a stream with riffles, or no matter where you pour, it will eventually mostly wind up at the lowest point on the streambed; in other words at the temporary dam at the front edge of the layout.    I won't be getting to that until next winter at the earliest. 

I didn't mention what is on my rolling workbench yesterday.  I have painted the reinforced walls for the Thomas West Virginia Station kit from Carolina Craftsman Kits.  Here is a cropped closer view.  After gluing reinforcing stripwood on the backs of the walls and beveling the corner edges, I painted them with acrylic craft paint.  I used a more brown color for the first light coat, which I didn't like.  I put a thin coat of burgundy on top of that and like the brick color.  The mortar joints are so thin, I couldn't get thinned paint to seep in, and it all came off when I wiped the bricks.  I have never had success using joint compound for mortar, and thought it would be hard to get it in the paper thin mortar joints anyway.  I then used chalk and rubbed it on with my thumb.  You can see the section at the top of the photograph needed more chalk wiped off, but I had to get a new rag and left it for the next day.  They are now ready for Dullcoat.  I thought I had a can, but don't so, I have to buy some of that.  In the meantime, I got ahead of myself and started assembling double hung windows.  Duh, It would be easier to spray paint them before cutting them out.  So, I stopped that too.  There are two more panels of doors and windows, since you have to put pieces together for the double hung windows and panel doors.  We are supposed to get snow, sleet, and ice tonight and tomorrow morning, so the building is on hold until I can get out.  A slight fender bender would total my 18-year old Hyundai!    So, I plan to wait it out.

Looks like a nice building. Should be fun to detail inside and out.

Carolina Craftsman makes quality structures.

Mark, I don't know if you follow Sarah or have seen some of her posts from across the pond. She did some water pouring as well with rippling effects, those were pretty good too. I don't remember how long ago her post was. Maybe when I get home tonight I'll see if I can find them and pass it over to you.

@Bill Webb posted:

Looks like a nice building. Should be fun to detail inside and out.

Carolina Craftsman makes quality structures.

Hey Bill! Nice to see another familiar face over here. Hopefully you remember me from the other forum? How are you doing on your layout build?

Sorry Mark didn't mean to interrupt your thread.

Thank you, Bill, Dave, RJ!

Bill, This is the second Carolina Craftsman Kit I have.  The other is the Thomas, West Virginia Enginehouse.  They are great kits.  The main issue for me is that, I have not worked with laser cut siding as thin as Jeff uses.  This is no criticism, thin is prototypical.  The enginehouse is clapboard, so it isn't as easy to break as the brick laser cuts.  To get the proper mortar joints, they are cut very thin, making it an easy break point.  If I do another of his brick kits, I will put in lots of bracing on the back side BEFORE I sand the corners to 45 degree angles, instead of after as the instructions state.  I broke a few of the thin sections of brick between doors and the wall corners.  Fortunately, a smidgeon of Ailene's Tacky Glue and a flat surface makes them not noticeable now.

Dave, no I am not familiar with Sarah at all.  I would be glad to receive a link when you get the chance.  Thank you!

RJ, Never feel like you are interrupting a topic I am commenting on, especially one like this where I am the OP.  Some of the best learning has come from interruptions and side rabbit trails, whether here on the Forum or life in general.  I'm glad you have joined in!!!

Mark,

As always well thought out trial and error regarding the tunnel placement, and what the look will be leading up to it. As with most projects there can be a ripple effect (pun intended) to the surrounding area as far as looks, access, etc. I think you’ve come up with a solid plan.

As far as the mortar joints, I’ve always used joint compound with pretty good results. I think one thing that might help would be to let the joint compound dry and form a haze, sometimes overnight. And depending on how it comes off of the surface, I will use my thumb to clear off the bricks. If I find that the mortar is staying in the joints for the most part, I clean off the bricks with a lint free rag and a very light touch. On occasion I do need to reapply joint compound to a very small area here and there. I think your use of chalk was inspiring, another tool in the arsenal!
As always I’m enjoying your progress, well done, and I look forward to more.

Andy

RJ, good to see you here. Layout is going fine except for a minor knee replacement 2 weeks ago which is recovering amazingly well. It has given me time to catch up on documenting things on the computer in case gremlins sneak in.

We keep up with Mark’s thread. He is always doing something interesting and as Andy said, documents the trial and error process. We have a Carolina Craftsman kit to do and will remember the thin joint problem.

Thank you, Andy and Bill!

Andy, good pun on the ripple effect!!    I will have to say the only time I used joint compound for mortar joints was on plastic kits with molded windows and door frames.  I found it tedious to get the compound out of the corners where the frames met the bricks.  That was my only beef about it.  You do get nice results.  I may not be as patient as I used to be, but then again my hands didn't hurt when I did things like that years ago. 

I guess I do show a lot of trial and error.  Sometimes, I get suggestions of a different way of doing things, and sometimes I just decide what I did wasn't going to work out as well.  I find it is much more useful to see the the process, changes and all, when reading about others' modeling, than just seeing the final product. 

Mark, by showing the trial and error, you’re helping yourself through the process, and anyone else that reads your thread, myself included. 👍🏻

Andy

Hi Mark, I am sorry I haven't commented lately, and I have been taking care of some stuff around here! I told you about it,

Sure, looks like you have been busy and are doing some great work! I like that part of layout building, even though sometimes it can get overwhelming!

Keep up the outstanding work!

Thank you, Mike!!!  I know you were tied up with unexpected, but necessary projects.    I'm glad to see you back!! 

I finally got some dull coat to seal the walls.  I also have some off white to spray the window and door parts.  Now I need a day with no cold or wind to do the spraying.  The temperatures are projected to be warmer this week, but I won't be doing it yet. Tomorrow, I have to get some tests done on my back that will hopefully reveal what is pinching my right sciatic nerve.  It's always something!!