Blackwater Canyon Line - October 14, 2024 - Town and Scratchbuild Planning

Mark,

What a moment when all the plans and efforts come to life. Terrific!!

DL

Glad you are up and running. Interesting configuration. 

Nice golden spike moment for you, Mark, congratulations! Now you can run a train and work on other things, if you wish.

Rusty

Thank you, Larry!  I think you hit the two things I am happy about.  The up and over is working out well and being able to get this much into the space I have.

Thank you DL, pennsynut, and Rusty!

Rusty, I forgot to get my Golden Spike out of the box!  Well, I guess we have been putting off a lot of things with the pandemic.    It is good to be able to run a train and work on other layout projects at the same time or interchangeably.

Mark, I just watched the video, Awesome, and very smooth. Your Western Maryland diesel sounds great and ran easily and effortlessly over the up and over. When you add the scenery it’s gonna be a WOW. Great work. More review later. Happy Railroading 

Congrats Mark! Things are really coming together and looks great! Nice first run and with as smooth as it went you have to be very pleased with yourself! I hope to see more and try to get on here more as I thing I am almost done with all my other projects!

Keep up the wonderful work as I really enjoy seeing your layout come to life!

Great payoff, Mark!  There is real satisfaction in reaching this stage.

Thank you Larry, Mike, and Palallin!!  There are a few places I think will need adjustment for the 2-6-6-2 to negotiate, since I haven't tried it yet, but all in all I am happy with it.

Mike, I hope you will be able to get back to your layout soon.

Last weekend I came across the opportunity to purchase an O scale Carolina Craftsman Kits built model of the Thomas, West Virginia two stall engine house.  It was offered by a modeler who is changing scales on a Facebook Western Maryland modelers group.  I thought it would go great with my Thomas Station kit by the same CCK.  After some discussion and some measuring to see if it would fit, we came to an agreement.  It arrived Thursday.  It is 20 1/2" x 12" just a shade shorter than my Premier H9 Consolidations.  The seller took the doors off for transport and a couple of rafters came loose from the near side wall, but a little glue will fix that right up.

It dawned on me after I placed it on the layout that I may be able to squeeze a wye into one of the stalls.  I set some track on the curve where the USRA 0-8-0 is sitting, and it seemed like it would work.  By using the existing switch in the foreground, and placing my extra 054/072 curved switch near the wall, I was able to fit in my extra #4 switch to go to the other stall.  The stalls are 6" apart.  I opened my latest SCARM file, but found I could not make any changes because it had forgotten my license.  After logging in, updating the license, and restarting the pc as per instructions I thought I was good to go.  It still wouldn't let me log in.  Also, the link to support wouldn't work.  I decided to just build that curve as a new drawing and was able to get it all to fit.  I used the 0" point at the bottom of the drawing as the straight leg of the existing switch, which is 48" from the wall.  It all fits in 46".  Amazing!!!   All I need to buy is an 042 Wye switch.

I'm pretty excited about this new possibility!! 

Mark - brilliant way to get a direction change on your engine(s). 

I am combining switch operators so I don't have to worry about switching both ends of a line. I have one switch operating 4 DZ switches on a Ross crossover works fine. Just have to make sure I am using the same DZ motor and operator. 

Also - SO EXCITED - I picked up an MTH Milwaukee Road EP2 PS2 to go with my Milwaukee Road Hiawatha Passenger Set - yeah I know the time periods are wrong - but C'est La Vie. It is a really nice runner. So a long story really short - take the time to watch this incredible video - this guy apparently has won academy awards for cinematography and shot this video of his layout   https://www.youtube.com/watch?...11&v=liGxckhiLek 

Anyway - with a little research discovered the Milwaukee Road ran out to the west coast and the electrics of the day allowed them to move through long tunnels without gassing people to death,   

I'll post a few videos after I get all that wiring straightened out.

Also thanks to all who replied on the oiling question, my fine tip needle oilers arrived today. 

Jeff

Mark, we have a "Y" on our narrow gauge here and they use slip switches. Why don't you try that, then you won't need motors or even pushing a button. Jeff, I'm the guy that made that layout and shot the video. They were Emmy Awards not Academy Awards. Glad you liked the video. Don

Hi Don, nice to meet you. I have shared your video and two other with a bunch of people. Everyone really likes it and usually comment on how relaxing it is to watch. Apologies for mixing up the Emmy award. Did you really take that down? There are a few other producers of high quality model RR video, but yours IMO is absolutely the best. Mark - apologies for getting a little off track on your thread.  Jeff

 Mark, that looks good. You gained a turning wye and added a 2 stall enginehouse. It looks like you will have a little over 4 inches of straight portion coming off the 042 wye before entering the engine house looking at your measurements. I’d try it first with just a curved piece of 042 if you have one before you spring for the wye.  My one concern would be the cab roof hitting the door entrance to the house going in and out if you plan on running steam.

Thank you, Jeff!  That is quite alright posting Don's video.  It is excellent.

Don, I have never used slip switches.  I will have to take a look at that.

Dave, I just measured the height of the doors and they are exactly 5" high.  That is enough for my two H9s sitting on track.  If I don't like it, I can raise the foundation a bit.  Thank you for questioning it early on.

 Mark, it’s not the height. It’s the width. Steamers tend to go straight for a bit before the start to turn in the curve without all the drivers flanged.  The corner of the cab may come close to the opening. The entrance to the house is only about 4 inches off the 042 curve. In your pic. . The house is as far back as it can go. ‘

Dave, Now I understand!!  Yes, you have an excellent point!!  I will have to set up some track and see if there is a problem with the side clearance coming out of the curve!!  I don't know why I didn't see what you meant the first time.  I have been checking clearance to backdrops and supports a lot on this layout!  Thank you very much!!!

I had this issue (longer steam engines clipping the tunnel entrances with their cab roofs) for my Century Club 773 and my Legacy K4.  But after I began to run something "scale"- this became a problem.   

I was not willing to tear out and replace my tunnel entrances.   IF I had anticipated ever buying these larger locos, I would have made allowances while building the layout.   I might have not done it to a 1950 773, but for the later ones each case, I had to clip the aft cab corners to get clearance.  

Yeah, I know- heresy!!  Let's face it fellow O Gauge enthusiasts- an engine built in 2000 -  after the same one built in 1953 and 1964- is not as much "collectible" any more, once they are run, and run pretty often.  I don't expect to last another 40 years so that a CC 773 appreciates in value from the $800 I paid to what??  $ 1000??  $ 1200??  So I don't see a lot of collector value left.  Run 'em!! 

So far no visitor has even noticed the slightly angled back corners of the cabs.  

Love that engine house!

Peter

Mark- the engine house is a very nice find. I think it will look great on the layout.

I took your mock up plan with the Y and laid it on your original plan. It looks like you have a little more room to play with than you thought. The curved turnout can move to the left a bit which may free up the Y to move as well. The only issue may be that you will need a custom curve out of the left side of the Y to meet up with the turnout off of the main coming off the bridge.

My other thought was to rotate the entire corner to the left by adding a small curved section right after the liftout. I didn't play with all of it so I don't know how changing the angle of the curve off of 90 deg will affect the turnouts and Y. Maybe the structure sits on an angle into the corner too. I'm sure Dave will pop up at some point and figure it all out for you.

Since the building will be against the wall you might just want to shorten it a bit if you have clearance issues with the steamer's overhang.

Here is the updated file.

Bob

Great progress Mark! It seems you are being meticulous with and rechecking every step of the way. That will save a lot of time in the long run also less stressful. I am jealous....  

Hi Mark,

Since my name was mentioned , I cleaned things up a bit and double-checked to make sure all the flex curves were O-42 or larger. 

I added a mock-up of the engine house, though I wasn't sure how large the doors were, so the openings are 4" wide with 1" side walls and a 2" center wall. The roof is on a separate layer so you can turn it off to see the tracks inside the house. As Dave mentioned, the Wye switch is pretty close to the entry door, so you'll have to check clearances for your locos turning into the lower stall. Bear in mind that when the lower stall is occupied, the Wye will be of little value for turning engines unless you move things around.

Anyway, I tried various configurations, including rotating the engine house and switches, to try to get you more room going into that lower stall, but didn't come up with anything better than what you have. The limiting elements are the 6" distance between track inside the engine house and the combination of switches, including the Wye switch. As it is, I don't know if you plan to bend/cut flex tracks to fill the gaps, but it will be very easy to end up with curves on the ends that are tighter than O-42. If you look at all the red flex tracks, you can see the little dots inside them. This is were the curved transitions begin so the tracks line up properly with the tracks they are going to connect to. I know you're meticulous when laying track, so it's just a word of caution. They can all be done cutting sectional straights and curves, but then you end up with several small pieces of both and that might be worse.

Thank you Mike, Peter, Bob, John, and Dave.

Mike, you have a great point about the steam engine cab clipping the door of the engine house.  If you ran the 773 or K4 when I was at your house, I certainly didn't notice the angled back corners of the cabs.  I'm sure I won't again unless you being it to my attention.  We will see what I have when I set it all up on a sturdy base, and I'll do whatever is necessary to make things work.

Peter, Jeff Grove of Carolina Craftsman Kits did a really nice job researching that engine house kit as he did on all his kits.  The owner who I bought the kit from told me Jeff built this one as the final pro-production run.  I'm looking forward to building the station to go with it.

Bob, thank you for working on the SCARM drawing.  Yes, if necessary shortening the engine house will probably be the way to go. 

John, I know myself too well to know I will overlook something.  I didn't want to buy the building without knowing it would fit.  In this case I knew I could get the two tracks in.  I just didn't think of the wye until afterwards.  Somewhere way back in this topic we discussed a turntable and wye and discarded the ideas.  Of course this is the 4th plan, the 3rd I started building since January 2107.  

Dave, Thank you for working on the plan also.  You guessed correctly on the width and positioning of the doors.  I still can't get SCARM to load either yours or Bob's files and can't link to the scarm.info to follow instructions.  That's fine for now.  I can see from both I can get the track in.  I have no problem cutting some solid track sections to fit.  I have already done a couple.  I have plenty.  My flex track bends leave something to be desired.  They worked okay for slight bends as needed in the original plan, but I haven't had success with smooth bends.  I have one that is a little wavy, but at the angle it is viewed it isn't noticeable, and all my engines have run on it without trouble.  Maybe a car will sometime.  Yes, this is certainly a compromise on turning engines and storing engines with the same track, but isn't the whole plan a compromise?  

Thank you everyone!

All the planning usually goes out the window once the construction starts Mark. At least you have a few options to work with to see what works best.
I remember a layout build thread on here from a while back. The OP used a short block of 2X4, about 4" long, to as a guide to bend GG flex. He marked the rails on the surface of the block and cut the three grooves into the block. I remember the pix of his curves and they were nice and uniform.

Bob

Bob, Yes planning does go out the window once construction starts.  I think this will work out somehow.

I can see that person's method with the grooves in the block of wood would work.  Thank you!

Looking good Mark, nice engine house BTW. Planning can go out the window at anytime, doesn't have to wait until construction starts. However, it has happened. One of the engineers that used to work with us found out the hard way because the drawing wasn't accurate to the building we worked in. So a foot here, a foot there, really compressed what he needed to get done. Needless to say it worked out, but was tighter than he liked.

Dave, a foot here or there...For An O gauge Layout in an 11x11 room, a few inches here or there and the engine house could go out the windowed door right beside the proposed spot on the layout!  😄  I wonder if Mrs B would mind if I left the sliding glass door open!  😄

Time to build that "addition". Just make sure Mark it is the tool room on the engine house.

Engine House addition

Dave and Bob, both great ideas!    Our younger daughter has one of those 'greenhouse' windows above her kitchen sink!

Enjoying this thread Mark.  Nice progress.

Thank you, Marty!  

Other than glueing the loose parts to the engine house, I didn't get a chance to work on the layout until today.  I was going to work on some other areas of the layout, leaving the corner go for a while until I got the engine house.  That caused me to change direction.  I want to get that built and make sure I can get the track to work.  I didn't order the 042 wye switch yet, but have all the others that are needed.  I decided to build the lower level tabletop and then support the upper level for the enginehouse, station, and a few downtown buildings above that.  For the lower level, I used all but a two-foot section of the large bookcase I tore apart and have been using.  Also, I will have just enough plywood to finish the top level.  It was discussed long ago on Plan A and Plan B about having staging tracks on the lower level in a similar location.  I have no interest in maintaining all those switches, etc here on Plan D.  I do think I could use the area for a place to store a few cars that can be swapped manually.  I'll see how that goes.  You can see I need to raise that section of the backdrop a bit.  That won't be a problem.

I then laid the switches and a few sections of straight and 042 track in place for a very rough estimate of how it will work.  As we discussed a few weeks ago, I'll need the wye switch and bend some flex instead of using 042, but I think it will work out.  I see from this photograph, I got the track a bit more cockeyed than I thought.  I still have to add in a triangular piece of plywood to support the front curve.

           looking great Mark !!   have a good weekend !

Thank you, Brian!

Looks great, Mark. You’ve been busy!

Looking really good Mark great work like the engine house but what about the rear doors how are you going to deal with them?

Mark,  it has been a while since I checked in on your layout.  It is coming along beautifully.  That is a good location for your engine house.  Great use of space available.

Keep up the steady progress and take some time to reward yourself by running some trains.  It will keep your internal battery charged.

Looks good Mark.

I hate to be an enabler but

A right hand turnout before the curve on the lower level could give you a couple of short sidings for storing a few cars. Looks like it would line up to go right into the first opening below the engine house.

I like to avoid the giant crane whenever possible.

Bob

          that would work Bob, then you could make it a two story building, 

          with the car shop on the bottom level... 

@briansilvermustang posted:

 

          that would work Bob, then you could make it a two story building, 

          with the car shop on the bottom level... 

Another enabler......