Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

That’s looking mighty nice Mark. I’m going to have to plan a trip when it’s all done.

Good luck with the knee surgery. Just remember to go everything they tell you no matter how much it hurts. And don’t forget to let us know how you’re doing.

Thank you A&S and Dave!  I would love to have you visit some time, Dave!  

As for the knee, my wife just had her second one done in July, so she will hold my nose to the wheel for sure!  I have been going to pre-surgery PT with her while she has her post-surgery PT, so I have seen it all first hand!  Besides, our orthopedic surgeon says she is his model patient.  That too puts on the pressure!!  

Looks Great, Mark!  Watching this development has been very enjoyable.

Coming along very nicely! But who will be watching over the layout when Raggedy Ann and Andy are removed? 

I hope all goes well with your knee surgery and you have a speedy recovery. 

Thank you Palallin and RTR12.  

Over on 'What did you do on your layout today,' Geysergazer Lew made a similar observation about Ann looking down and smiling.  Who knows, Ann and Andy may still be sitting on that shelf after I have departed for a better world.

Mark, best wishes on you upcoming knee surgery.  From what I understand the pre surgery PT is as important than the post surgery PT.  

Your layout is coming along nicely.  Take your time and enjoy.

jim

Jim, my wife did not have pre surgery PT on her first knee in 2016.  Pre surgery PT really helped her this go round!  

Thank you.

Mark Boyce posted:

Here is how my new layout stands.  Roadbed and track is all in for this double deck section.  The buildings are just set there to give an idea of how the town will look someday, and jumpers are through the roadbed ready for wiring.  I was so used to pre-wired switches, I forgot I needed to put jumpers in to power all the parts of the Ross switches.  Oh well, they are easily taken up since the track is only screwed down; no glue.  I doubt I will get much more done before my upcoming knee replacement surgery on Nov. 5th.

Great Job Mark!

Had to be tough working with that painful knee and terminal old age... Good Luck on surgery and getting a new knee. That will definetly slow you down to a crawl (pun intended) !

Mark Boyce posted:

Here is how my new layout stands.  Roadbed and track is all in for this double deck section.  The buildings are just set there to give an idea of how the town will look someday, and jumpers are through the roadbed ready for wiring.  I was so used to pre-wired switches, I forgot I needed to put jumpers in to power all the parts of the Ross switches.  Oh well, they are easily taken up since the track is only screwed down; no glue.  I doubt I will get much more done before my upcoming knee replacement surgery on Nov. 5th.

I apologize for the darkness.  I need to put more lighting in.  When I take a daylight photograph right now, the sun shining in the window messes with my iPhone 6s camera.   And yes, my wife is going to move Raggedy Ann and Andy along with a few more items someday. 

Mark ! 
Very nice work !!! 

I love the look of those buildings together, Mark.  Best of luck with the upcoming surgery. I hope you and your wife both recover quickly!

Looks great Mark!

Mark, things are looking great! Remember when you get your knee done, don't rush things! I like how your little town is looking , sure looks like its going to be a fun layout to run!

Thank you everyone!!

John, I like the pun where it slows down to a crawl.    I'll be remembering you also with your upcoming knee replacement!!

Mike, I'll not rush things.  The sciatic issue and drop foot on the other leg will help keep me honest on that I think!  

Looks great Mark! Hope your wife is healing well. My wife had her knee done in August. It’s a slow recovery. But she is in less pain for sure. Best of luck to you with your operation.

Andy

Andy, Great to hear from you!!  I'm glad your wife is in less pain now than before and hope she heals well!  My wife is getting along pretty well after 9 weeks.  Of course they say it takes a year to really be up to muster, but so far so good!  Thank you for your well wishes on my surgery!!  It is only 5 weeks out now!   

My wife is 7 weeks out. She had the left knee done last year, so we knew what to expect this time around. Glad you are still make no progress. Now that m wife is a little more independent, I can get back to my layout.

Andy

Getting back to the layout will be a good thing!!  It was the second for my wife also.  This will be my first, and so far there is no sign I will need the other one done.

Glad you won’t need the other knee Mark. After recovery, you can be pain free.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!  Yes, I hope to be able to make a return trip to York next year, after missing the last two and this one coming up next week.  Wal-Mart was a chore yesterday, and not nearly as much fun as looking at trains! 

I might add that last week I took delivery of this neat Railking Scale 0-8-0 with PS-3 from a Forum friend who has now contributed 3 steamers for my layout.  It is one of the few scale Railking steamers I am aware of and did not disappoint.  Here it is on my Ceiling Central Railroad where I could let it run for a while.

Good looking engine Mark! It will looks great on your new layout!

Thank you Mike!  It is the perfect switcher for my ‘fiddle yard’ to be built.  Other switchers can become expendable to gain funds for future construction 

Looks good Mark. It’ll make a nice addition to your fleet.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!

Mark Boyce posted:

Getting back to the layout will be a good thing!!  It was the second for my wife also.  This will be my first, and so far there is no sign I will need the other one done.

That's good news about not needing the second operation.  Good progress, too!

George

Thank you, George!!  

It's about time I post a new twist to my progress.  If you follow the Forum topic What Did You Do on Your Layout Today, then you already got a heads up.  For those folks, you can skip the two paragraphs in italics, since I copied it from my post a couple days ago.  If not, then read on.

I might as well give a heads up on the farther reaching purpose of the cleanup.  The cleanup is in the small room I started a layout in two years ago.  Then my wife suggested I build in the family room since the girls were married and the furniture was junk.  So many of you contributed to a layout design for that room too.  However, as time passed the need for access made the room 'shrink' to some extent.  So last year I started building on the end of the room that was emptied.  I built the two loopback turns one on top of the other with no connection between the two.  The next part of the layout that is to be built will climb up the canyon where a massive wooden shelving unit is.  The shelving unit is to move across the room to where our older daughter's upright piano is.  Well we hit a snag getting the piano moved.  Daughter and son-in-law had moisture problems in the lower level of their house and had to throw out some stuff.  Other stuff was moved upstairs.  So it is dried out, but none of us has the money to put into correcting the problem where the moisture is getting in.  We don't have the manpower either because my son-in-law's dad, newly retired like me, and like me he had his knee replaced 4 days before mine.  So, the home repair at our daughter's is on hold, moving the piano is on hold, so freeing up the rest of the layout space is on hold. 

So, I mentioned it to a few Forum members, Mike, Chris A, DoubleDAZ Dave.  Dave helped me with a simplified layout plan for the old small room, just so I can get some trains running until I can do the bigger project.  Besides, I'm getting tired craning my neck to see trains run on the Ceiling Central RR and blinded looking into the lights in all the passenger cars.    I still can't climb the two step ladder to replace them with freight cars.    Also, I am finding like Jim, I am a Looper.  Switching back and forth on the existing track on the new layout isn't what I want to do for the foreseeable future.

So here is the proposed track plan and there is a SCARM file in the attachments box.

You may recall I used this simple method to build my shelf on the wall that is to the left on the track plan.  I intend to use the same on the top wall on the drawing next.  This method has proven to be rock solid considering all the stuff I have had piled up on it over the last year and a half.

Oh yes, here is what the room looks like right now.

Mark, you really have been through a lot and it’s kind of surprising you’re hanging in there. As you know, I’ve been in flux too, originally designing for a 10x21 room, then a 12x13 room, then 2 stalls in a 3-car garage, then a smaller version of that and now a 4x8x11 “L” space in a corner of the original room. The big difference is I still haven’t started any construction, so it’s all just been a frustrating computer exercise. I’m finally ready to begin construction this year, so I’m trying to decide on bench work. I’d like Mianne, but the bench work requirements are so simple that a 4x8 section with a 4x7 leg out of 2x4s seems like the quickest, easiest and cheapest way to go. Once I get the framework done and my wife see’s the space there’s no guarantee something won’t change. 😉

Dave, It has been a challenge getting going.  I bought one of the smaller Mianne kits, and it is great!  I’m with you that if the layout doesn’t entail very much I could still build myself.  In the case for this room, the only parts that would be free standing are the two sections on the right  going to the liftout, lift up, or whatever I decide to do.  Sometimes I am amazed with modelers who are able to come up with a plan, build it, and use it for years without any necessity to alter the plan.  Maybe part of the problem for me is we have always had small houses.

I hope you get to build your layout starting this year!

Mark,

I am impressed that you continue to view these challenges as opportunities.  Your perseverance is noteworthy!

palallin posted:

Mark,

I am impressed that you continue to view these challenges as opportunities.  Your perseverance is noteworthy!

Thank you!  I have had false starts when I was in HO, so I guess I’ve gotten used to it!  LOL. I don’t like trains sitting around.  I bought them to run. 

YAY!........

If medals were given out for perseverance you'd win gold hands down Mark!

Bob

Mark, if it is true that half the fun is in getting there then you are just having  soooo much fun.   

But it's all good, isn't it? Every tweak and change I go through I learn something and every change and tweak people here post about I learn something too.

I'm looking forward to seeing your new project take shape.

Bob and Lew, Thank you very much!!  Just before supper I was figuring out where to put the plywood and Homasote that is in the way.  I have a plan, now I have to get the two sons-in-law over to move it for me.   

Mark, it is great that you have the sons-in law that are willing to help out I have two sons and always without asking they are there to help do things I used to do alone.

Glad to see you might be making some progress on that room.

Ray, thank you.  You are blessed with your sons.  We don’t have sons, so it has been a joyful experience with the sons-in-law.  It is a matter of scheduling since they both work odd hours, that’s all.  
It is also handy that they both live within 2 miles of us!

Mark, your on the right track! I can tell like Lew stated your just having way to much fun! As for your lift out section, if you would like I could build you on like I have without the actuator. You could just put a little weight on the one end if needed to help you lift it!

Either way I will be fallowing your next step in your adventure of layout building!

I have a son and a son-in-law, but they both live about an hour away so we only see them maybe 4 times a year! So its all left up to me! LOL

Mike, Thank you.  The offer on the lift out is very generous.  How long is your lift out?  I haven’t decided how wide to make the opening.  That’s down the road.

Hi Mark, I think it's 36", but o can build itany length!

Mike, Off the top of my head, 36” was what I briefly thought of when drawing the plan, though I See I only made it 24” on the drawing.  No matter; I’ll get it right when it comes time.  Oh, yes, Dave did some jockeying around to keep the switches off of it.  The doorway to this room is only 27" wide, and that works okay for me.

Mark, either way if you would like let me know, I built one for Brian and one for Pine Creek Dave. I don't know if either have installed them, I guess you could ask them and see how they are working out for them!

Mike, I would definitely use one!  Once I get into the project more, I’ll decide on a length!  Thank you!

Hi Mark,  this “looper” likes your track plan.  Nice l-o-n-g main line run.  Good ratio of track to surface area.  Go for the 3 foot opening on the lift bridge, you will be glad you did.

Wishing you well as you proceed.

Jim, Thank you for the positive comment.  As the plan stands now, I need to move a switch or whole siding to get the 36".  I think you are probably right I would glad I did!

Mark, the doorway into my Train Room is 24" and that works fine for me. My issue is that it is only 67" high and I'm 70" tall. 

Lew, I can see why you have the tell tails on the top of the door.  Thank you for the message on 24”.

I'll be heading back to this layout build soon!

          all right Mark         great,  time for some fun !

                               can't wait to see the Shay going thru the mountains !!

Ditto, ditto on seeing the Shay work!

Oh! Looks to me like the room is all cleaned up. 

Time to get busy, Mark. 

Glad to hear it, Mark. 

Thank you everyone!

Lew, I actually cleaned that up so I could move the stuff that is blocking the way for moving the plywood and Homasote sheets to the other side of the room.  Then I'll be ready to start putting up the the shelf for the layout on the wall to the right of what you see.  One step at a time, and remember that Mike G. says not to overdo it!  

Looking good, Mark!!!

George

Mark Boyce posted:

I'll be heading back to this layout build soon!

Yay Mark!

Sounds great Mark. I like the background.

Now if you were really serious Mark, you would have put some track and switches down and made a switching layout to play with.......

You will thank me later.......

Looking really good, Mark, good luck and remember, Rome wasn`t built in a day, lol, just take your time and have fun with it, as for mine, i couldn`t fit the d192 lionel layout in the space i had, so i`m looking at the layout on the back of the `57 catalog, it seems only an l shape will work in the space i have and leave me enough room to move around, Phil

Thank you everyone for the well wishes.

Several of you have commented on the backdrop.  I bought it 3 or 4 years ago from George 'G3750'.  He had it painted on Masonite by someone where he used to live for his PRR Panhandle Div. 1.0 layout.  He is using photograph panoramas of the Ohio River at Weirton, WV - Steubenville, OH for his 2.0 layout.  There are a couple more sections not shown.  The two sections are just leaning against the wall for now and held in place by notches I put in the benchwork.

Bob, I needed to clear off that section of benchwork to have a place to put the dimensional lumber I have stacked on the floor in front of the plywood and Homasote sheets I'm getting help from my two sons-in-law to move for me.  I did some of that last evening after posting the above photograph.  I stopped when I came to the 2x4s I pulled out of my dad's shop last fall before my knee replacement, since we knew we were selling in December.  I may use them for the free standing part of the layout in the latest plan.  Once we get the plywood away from the wall, then I can put some dimensional lumber on the floor again, since I will use 6 more of the 2000-pound metal brackets to support the layout benchwork on that wall.  That's my problem in this house.  There is too much stuff in a small house that I don't have control of.  

So yes, I will get some track down so I can do a little switching.  The bracket is already there to mount the board with my TIU, TMCC base, and terminal blocks.  I consider that the centerpoint of the star for DCS wiring, and the wires going to the Ceiling Central in the other room are coiled up long enough to reach that. 

Well I have some sweeping to do, and might as well do the whole lower level of the house since my wife is recuperating from hiatal hernia surgery and a polyp removal.  Thank you again, everyone!!

Looks good, Mark - keep moving forward and enjoy the experience.

Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you everyone for the well wishes.

Several of you have commented on the backdrop.  I bought it 3 or 4 years ago from George 'G3750'.  He had it painted on Masonite by someone where he used to live for his PRR Panhandle Div. 1.0 layout.  He is using photograph panoramas of the Ohio River at Weirton, WV - Steubenville, OH for his 2.0 layout.  There are a couple more sections not shown.  The two sections are just leaning against the wall for now and held in place by notches I put in the benchwork.

Mark, I too really like those backdrops. I think they'll "set the whole scene" for your pike.

Bob, I needed to clear off that section of benchwork to have a place to put the dimensional lumber I have stacked on the floor in front of the plywood and Homasote sheets I'm getting help from my two sons-in-law to move for me.  I did some of that last evening after posting the above photograph.  I stopped when I came to the 2x4s I pulled out of my dad's shop last fall before my knee replacement, since we knew we were selling in December.  I may use them for the free standing part of the layout in the latest plan.  Once we get the plywood away from the wall, then I can put some dimensional lumber on the floor again, since I will use 6 more of the 2000-pound metal brackets to support the layout benchwork on that wall.  That's my problem in this house.  There is too much stuff in a small house that I don't have control of.  

Same thing here! Anytime we want to do anything we have to move six things out of the way to make enough room to work. It's like Burt&Ernie and the cookie jar on Sesame St. In order to move the cookie jar Ernie has to move every other object in the room. 

So yes, I will get some track down so I can do a little switching.  The bracket is already there to mount the board with my TIU, TMCC base, and terminal blocks.  I consider that the centerpoint of the star for DCS wiring, and the wires going to the Ceiling Central in the other room are coiled up long enough to reach that. 

Well I have some sweeping to do, and might as well do the whole lower level of the house since my wife is recuperating from hiatal hernia surgery and a polyp removal.  Thank you again, everyone!!

Nice job Mark, keep the pictures coming.

I was finally able to dig my way back to the plywood.  I thought I still had two full sheets, but there is only one.  There are also 2 half sheets of Homasote there and 3 sections of the backdrop on Masonite.  Don't ask about the bench on the adjacent wall I showed yesterday, It is covered with stuff now.    Now I will have to await assistance to get that plywood moved.  I'm going to cut it when I have the chance since I won't be able to use it again full size.

Mark Boyce posted:

I'll be heading back to this layout build soon!

 (it's.been a while since I caught a glimpse during the backdrop painting )....now to backtrack 🤤

keep up this quality and maybe wifey will let you line more walls with them 

...wishin is free

Good to see things are in motion Mark. I’d move that plywood for you if I lived nearby. Like everyone else I’m hoping you get some help so you can start building!

Andy

Mark, It sure is nice to see your getting time to work in your train room! I am with the rest of the group the back drops look wonderful! I wish I lived closer I would come and give you a hand as your not to be overdoing it! LOL

Things will come along, just take your time and envision what is to come! This is a important time in your build where you can thing of everything and where it will all go! I wish I would have done that more when I started my layout! Like said before just have fun!

Mark Boyce posted:

I was finally able to dig my way back to the plywood.  I thought I still had two full sheets, but there is only one.  There are also 2 half sheets of Homasote there and 3 sections of the backdrop on Masonite.  Don't ask about the bench on the adjacent wall I showed yesterday, It is covered with stuff now.    Now I will have to await assistance to get that plywood moved.  I'm going to cut it when I have the chance since I won't be able to use it again full size.

Speaking as a woodworker who uses a fair amount of plywood and is finding that they're making the sheets a lot bigger and heavier than they used to, here's what I do...

I keep a 4x8 sheet of 2" thick foam insulation board near the driveway outside of my garage.  When I bring a sheet of plywood home, I lay the foam board on the ground and unload the sheet of plywood on top of it (good side DOWN).  I set my cordless circular saw so the depth of cut is about 1/8 to 1/4" more than the thickness of the plywood, snap a line as close as possible to the finished size, and make the cut.  The foam board keeps the blade from hitting the ground, and placing the plywood sheet good side down prevents tearout on the finished side. 

It's a lot easier to handle a partial sheet, and cutting it in the driveway keeps the mess outside. 

Another trick is to get a handle that is designed for helping to carry plywood.  Probably about $10 at the big box home center. 

Mark Boyce posted:

I was finally able to dig my way back to the plywood.  I thought I still had two full sheets, but there is only one.  There are also 2 half sheets of Homasote there and 3 sections of the backdrop on Masonite.  Don't ask about the bench on the adjacent wall I showed yesterday, It is covered with stuff now.    Now I will have to await assistance to get that plywood moved.  I'm going to cut it when I have the chance since I won't be able to use it again full size.

That is always a pain, moving big unbalanced things from one spot to the other. When I built my Christmas Tree layout 45x60 or whatever the dimensions were, I had the lumber all cut at the store. Good thing too because I just barely got the main sheet in my Terrain. I don't think I will ever get straight up pieces of plywood, mainly because of transportation and storage issues. Hopefully Mark someone can give you a hand and get it cut or into place.

Thank you Lew, Andy, Mike, Mallard, Dave!!

Mallard, That is a great idea to lay the plywood on foam to cut to stop splintering.  In the past, I've laid 2x4s down with the plywood on top.  It's not nearly as nice a cut.  I have a plywood carrying tool; In fact that is how I got the plywood in the house in the first place.    But now since I have trouble with both legs and my back, it isn't even enough.  

Dave, from now on I'm going to get it cut at the store.  For another thing, we no longer have a minivan.  After buying the first one in '93 when our younger daughter was born, I have always been able to carry a 4x8 sheet of whatever.  Now we have a '16 Ford Escape and my old '04 Sonata.  

We are going to lay that sheet of plywood down and cut it right in place.  Get out the 2" thick foam for the cut.    The sections of Masonite backdrop and Homasote are small enough I was already able to move one of each from in front of the plywood with no trouble.  Since I am going to build the roadbed and scenery in modules I can move to the other room later or to another house, I don't need big pieces of plywood for an around the walls layout anyway.

Thank you for all the great comments!!

Mark, I’ve also had success facing the “good” side of the plywood down, put painters tape 1” or so wide where you’ll be cutting (I assume you’re using a circular saw) mark out your cut on the tape, make the cut, and remove tape after you’re done. That should give you a nice result as long as your blade is somewhat sharp.

Andy

Andy, Thank you for the painters tape idea.  I have a practically new DeWalt circular saw and blade.  I brought home my dad's tools that were better than mine before we sold the house in December.  That saw is really a step up over my old Skil saw I bought 35 years ago or so.

The painters tape trick worked great.  We cut the plywood into 3 pieces, 2 measured for what I want and the third is the leftover.  All the plywood, Homasote, and Masonite backdrop sections are behind a rolling cart on the other side of the room.  Now it is time to start putting up benchwork on wall number 2.  Yay!

Don't worry about the baseboard heater.  It is disconnected.  I get enough heat through the door and window opening to the main part of the basement.  

Nice to see you getting quite busy, Mark. I bet it feels good. 

Eggcellent!

geysergazer posted:

Nice to see you getting quite busy, Mark. I bet it feels good. 

Eggcellent!

Great job Mark, glad it worked for you. Been using that trick for years with success.

Andy

Last week I got started putting up brackets on the second wall in the original layout room.  After measuring right and then checking against the adjacent wall, I discovered the metal brackets angle is slightly over 90 degrees.  This causes the front to be about 1/4 inch higher than the back.  Since I had put a shelf the whole distance across the first wall, when I would add a shelf on the second wall, the heights would be different in the back, but the same in the front.  A tilt away from the wall.  I remedied that on the second wall by putting composite shims under the top of the bracket against the wall.  Now the brackets are level from front to back in addition to being level side to side.

Then came the hard part; the brackets on the first wall.  Fortunately I am building this high enough that I can sit on a chair and put my head under the shelf.  I loosened the top bolt on several brackets and started slipping shims in behind the bracket and tightening it back up.  Now things are level.

Ha! Necessity is the mother of invention {someone once said}. 

Good catch, Mark, and as a result you are moving forward with the project. 

Nice job Mark, sorry I haven't been able to comment much as I have been very busy with the house repairs. I will send you some pictures.

I am glad thing are on the right plane now, things should go smoothly from here on out! Lol

Looking good Mark!

Take advantage of building and working on the layout when able !

Al

Thank you, Lew, Mike, and Al!  Yes, I am glad I caught it.  I didn't think there would be a slight tilt with those brackets, but not surprising now that I discovered it.

Good to see some progress Mark. I also have been using painters tape for cutting clean edges for years. Especially on interior doors. A fine tooth blade in the saw helps too.

Good catch on the shelf brackets. I never would have thought the brackets would not be square.

Bob

Bob, thank you!  Yes, I bought the first bunch of brackets 2 years ago, and these just last week.  They are all the same.  

And ladies and gentlemen he's off and look at him go! Mark, I know you're not racing but it's good to see the your bench work coming along and your railroad begin. If everyone is like me, they've been waiting to see your layout start. You are so kind to others in word, that it's nice to be able to encourage your work as well.

Dave

Thank you, Dave!  

I was able to build a layout rather continuously during my teenage years, and another during the several years after we were married but before our girls were born.  I have had many false starts, slowdowns, and even dormancy during the ensuing years.    So I guess I am conditioned to accept similar delays now that both girls are married, but we have to help elderly relatives and have our own health issues.  I think my case is rather common as I read replies from other Forum members.  Life gets in the way of hobbies as it should.

Thank you again for the encouragement!!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Last week I got started putting up brackets on the second wall in the original layout room.  After measuring right and then checking against the adjacent wall, I discovered the metal brackets angle is slightly over 90 degrees.  This causes the front to be about 1/4 inch higher than the back.  Since I had put a shelf the whole distance across the first wall, when I would add a shelf on the second wall, the heights would be different in the back, but the same in the front.  A tilt away from the wall.  I remedied that on the second wall by putting composite shims under the top of the bracket against the wall.  Now the brackets are level from front to back in addition to being level side to side.

Then came the hard part; the brackets on the first wall.  Fortunately I am building this high enough that I can sit on a chair and put my head under the shelf.  I loosened the top bolt on several brackets and started slipping shims in behind the bracket and tightening it back up.  Now things are level.

Mark:

That was good, outside-the-box thinking.

Randy, Thank you very much!!  Occasionally I come up with a good idea!  Usually I copy others' good ideas!  

Very clean looking work Mark!...always enjoy seeing your expansions....hope you don’t mind, but I’m taking notes....great ideas you’ve come up with......Pat

harmonyards posted:

Very clean looking work Mark!...always enjoy seeing your expansions....hope you don’t mind, but I’m taking notes....great ideas you’ve come up with......Pat

Pat, By all means please take notes.  That is what is so nice here.  Folks tell you what didn't work or didn't work well in addition to what worked!    Thank you for the compliments!  I do try to do clean work, though I am not the best carpenter, and I only have basic hand tools and hand power tools.  

Mark Boyce posted:

 

Interesting that I've never noticed this thread topic before until tonight.  Mark, I need to ask in case this was discussed before - as I only read the last 3 pages - but how did you manage to support that upper level shelf without any brackets, especially that middle section with that large depth?  I don't what the material is, but there is no sagging whatsoever Great work!

Amfleet25124 posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

 

Interesting that I've never noticed this thread topic before until tonight.  Mark, I need to ask in case this was discussed before - as I only read the last 3 pages - but how did you manage to support that upper level shelf without any brackets, especially that middle section with that large depth?  I don't what the material is, but there is no sagging whatsoever Great work!

Don't see how it is mounted, this thread is too long to search My guess is brackets from the wall that fasten to the shelf top rather than underneath it.

I think it is this from page7:

Ken, Excellent question!  Thank you for your interest.

Bobby, thank you.  You found probably the best photograph in the long topic.  I have to go plodding back through the pages myself to find things myself.  I'll post photographs I just took today and answer.  

To get you up to speed, this room was is an addition my in-laws put on the back of the house.  The layout is on the basement level.  My in-laws removed a deck on the upper level and had a 12 x 12 sunroom built, and this room to them just basically supported the sunroom.  When we moved here our older daughter was in college and she made the room into her art studio.  So the photograph Bobby found on page 7 shows the room once our daughter had married and moved everything out.  She had put the upper shelf in.  It is just the white finished 8" shelving you can get at Lowes or Home depot.  I suggested she use the brackets shown in the first photograph to attach it to a bulkhead that encases the furnace intake and exhaust pipes that come from the combination furnace/laundry room in the main part of the basement.

This photograph shows the bulkhead as best as I can do it.  I have the brick wall that is from the back of the original house and I removed the window to let air flow in from the laundry.  I'll contend with the brick wall side of the room later.

So from the bottom, it looks like a 24" deep shelf, where actually it is only 8" deep.

I hope that clears up the confusion, but please ask any questions that come to mind.  Thank you.

Thanks for explanations, Bobby and Mark.

I finally got some time today to work on the wall brackets.  All 7 are bolted to the studs with the shims at the top to compensate for the bracket being slightly more than 90 degrees. 

I reused 1x4s from other projects to act as the joists as I did on the first wall.  The one closest to the existing shelf is a 2x4 I brought home from my dad's shop last summer since I ran out of 1x4s of the proper length.  On the subject of length, I am making the shelf 30" deep.  I made the 1x4s 29" long and left a 1" gap next to the wall to slip in the Masonite backdrop.  That looks like it will work well from trying it on the first wall.  I can always go back and shim it if I need too.  The two joists on the far right are cut for a 24" shelf.  The will be the small peninsula in the corner for the hilltop town.  I made it narrower so it doesn't interfere with the light switch and give a little room getting in and out of the sliding glass door.

Mark

Very impressive progress on your layout!

Looking good. Nice work! It's nice to see you moving forward!

Mark,  

Great work Mark and you're giving me inspiration.  Keep it up!

Glad to see the plan working out in reality.  Keep up the great work!

Pete, Mike, Lew, Kevin, Palallin, Thank you very much!!  I'm trying to make it as simple as I can, but strong too!  I have found this to be easy to build mostly sitting on a chair and not crawling, squatting, or stretching too far.  

As to what's next, I plan to put risers in for the grades and upper levels, that will screw in from the bottom and do that in sections that can be taken out easily if and when we have to move.  Then a flat tabletop could be added all around for a workroom for the new owners.  Once my mother-in-law across the road passes or has to go into a home, we plan to move to a ranch (this house is a split entry which we have never liked, but the price was right since it was in my wife's family), and I could take the sections with me.  Though the way she is going, that could be a long time.  She is the youngest of our relatives of that generation at 84, but very healthy and active.

Today's progress was printing out my SCARM drawing 1:1 scale and taping together the pages for the new wall shelf.  It fits perfectly!!!  I'll use this as a guide for risers for the elevations and track placement.  The #4 turnout against the wall fits the plan just right.

Mark, it looks like you are going to have a Wye. Eggcellent! I can't seem to find room for one.

Nice work, Mark!  Will you be repurposing the Mianne Benchwork into this plan?

Lew, JD, thank you!

Lew, actually the tracks to the right are planned to be two sidings.  However, I would be able to to put the back leg of a wye in. The question is how long would I be able to make the tail track!  I could always poke a hole through the exterior wall like Mike G plans to do!  

JD, good question about the Mianne.  I do plan to use it for the free standing part of the layout that allows access to the doors.  Also the wall opposite the one I worked on is brick.  I haven’t decided whether to try the brackets on it or use the Mianne.  Since I have it, I’m leaning that way.

Congratulations Mark,  you have a room to yourself.   I recently started on my first O scale layout so I probably will not have any words of wisdom to pass on.   I will say this, no matter how much room you have available,  O scale track, switches, and  other stuff take more room than I realized.

Thank you, Dan!  After having HO layout, O sure does take more room.  But I find it more enjoyable because I can see the trains a lot better!

I hear you Mark.  I went  from N scale to O scale.  I  can read the car numbers now! 

Mark;

Nice progress... it looks like it will be easy to reach anything on your “shelf”. I may have missed it, but will this section connect to the section you built on the Mianne benchwork???

dan 77 posted:

I hear you Mark.  I went  from N scale to O scale.  I  can read the car numbers now! 

N scale cars have numbers on them?  Who knew?

Paul, thank you for asking.  A few pages back, in January, I wrote I was going to have to rethink the layout I started with the Mianne.  The reason was our daughter would not be able to move her piano out any time soon, which was necessary to continue on with the build.  Since I am stuck with the return loops with no where to go for who knows how long, I decided to continue in the little room with a fairly simple over and under twice around plan  just so I can run trains.  Time will tell when I can get back to the other layout.  I can look for the page with that discussion and post the new plan later.  I’m just responding now on the smart phone.

Dan, I built an N scale layout once upon a time.  I’m amazed I was happy with it at the time.  

Mallard, N scale cars had numbers 30 years ago, so I assume they still do.  I can’t prove it because I don’t see much of anything on them now when I see a modular N layout at the Greenberg show. 

geysergazer posted:

Mark, it looks like you are going to have a Wye. Eggcellent! I can't seem to find room for one.

Lew- I think the middle of the room could fit the Wye and a finger track or two to turn trains

Lew and Bob, all suggestions are welcome.  As you both have demonstrated recently nothing is ever etched in stone on a layout!  😄

Mark, maybe you could post your trackplan......(probably again but Senior brain here) ?

Mark Boyce posted:

It's about time I post a new twist to my progress.  If you follow the Forum topic What Did You Do on Your Layout Today, then you already got a heads up.  For those folks, you can skip the two paragraphs in italics, since I copied it from my post a couple days ago.  If not, then read on.

I might as well give a heads up on the farther reaching purpose of the cleanup.  The cleanup is in the small room I started a layout in two years ago.  Then my wife suggested I build in the family room since the girls were married and the furniture was junk.  So many of you contributed to a layout design for that room too.  However, as time passed the need for access made the room 'shrink' to some extent.  So last year I started building on the end of the room that was emptied.  I built the two loopback turns one on top of the other with no connection between the two.  The next part of the layout that is to be built will climb up the canyon where a massive wooden shelving unit is.  The shelving unit is to move across the room to where our older daughter's upright piano is.  Well we hit a snag getting the piano moved.  Daughter and son-in-law had moisture problems in the lower level of their house and had to throw out some stuff.  Other stuff was moved upstairs.  So it is dried out, but none of us has the money to put into correcting the problem where the moisture is getting in.  We don't have the manpower either because my son-in-law's dad, newly retired like me, and like me he had his knee replaced 4 days before mine.  So, the home repair at our daughter's is on hold, moving the piano is on hold, so freeing up the rest of the layout space is on hold.  

So, I mentioned it to a few Forum members, Mike, Chris A, DoubleDAZ Dave.  Dave helped me with a simplified layout plan for the old small room, just so I can get some trains running until I can do the bigger project.  Besides, I'm getting tired craning my neck to see trains run on the Ceiling Central RR and blinded looking into the lights in all the passenger cars.    I still can't climb the two step ladder to replace them with freight cars.    Also, I am finding like Jim, I am a Looper.  Switching back and forth on the existing track on the new layout isn't what I want to do for the foreseeable future.

So here is the proposed track plan and there is a SCARM file in the attachments box.

You may recall I used this simple method to build my shelf on the wall that is to the left on the track plan.  I intend to use the same on the top wall on the drawing next.  This method has proven to be rock solid considering all the stuff I have had piled up on it over the last year and a half.

Here you go Lew.  This is the easiest way since I don’t have access to the computer right now 

Here the link in case someone wants the SCARM file.

Dave, Thank you for adding the link.  I wasn’t able to figure out how to do that on the phone.  I’ll be able to get back to the computer tomorrow evening I think.

Great to see you making progress Mark! Glad you got the straight/level issue corrected with the brackets. If that’s not right it’ll drive you nuts. I like the track plan. Nice action.

Andy

Thank you Andy.  Until I get back to the computer, please check the link DaoubleDAZ Dave posted above.  I’ll try to get back to the computer and post it again here.

Let's try this Lew.  I was working on the top shelf.  The yellow represents a removable bridge for access.

Hi Mark

 What if you cut a parallel line between the the bottom loop and top loop straight sections and have the top loop swing up and the bottom loop swing down for access?

Al

Looks like it’s taking shape Mark! I’ve been MIA for a few years and finally getting back into trains again. Sadly having to go with HO. Keep up the great work!

Thanks, Mark. Somehow I lost track of this Thread during our trip to Pittsburgh. The double-loop up-and-over has always been a favorite track-plan of mine. Those scenic backdrops you have are going to make your Pike really come alive.

The 43" high knee-walls in my train-room just don't give me enough vertical space or I'd have a variant of what you are doing. But it's all good because I'm fortunate to have the dedicated space I do have.

Because two levels of track are you thinking of a lift-out bridge? Or two separate hinge-up bridges?

I look forward to seeing your Pike take shape. 

Thank you Al, Lance, Lew!

Lance, welcome back to the hobby.  If it wasn't for my eyesight, I probably would have stayed with HO instead of switching to O back in 2012.  Have fun!

Lew, Yes, the yellow portion roughly represents a lift-out, swing up, or swing down section for access to the middle.  I have made no decisions on that at all.  That area will probably be my Golden Spike area.  

Al, so you are suggesting having two single track swing sections I take it.  It would certainly be lighter and easier to maneuver than a whole sceniced section a foot or more wide.  I think that would be easier to construct as well.  One going up and one going down would work.  Thank you.  I am thinking of something simple like Lew's which is not much more than track on a board.  

Yesterday, I put in more cleats to fasten risers, tabletop to.  I was hoping to keep it an open grid with risers if I am making it in modules that I could move off the metal brackets when and if we move.  I'm in a bit of a quandary of how to build it with my limited carpentry skills, so I may just put down a flat tabletop and put in risers from that for the elevations.

Mark, looking good.  Nice track plan.  I'm anticipating your track laying and train running!

Jerry

I decided to go ahead and mount boards to the cleats.  These will support the track with risers on top of them.  I'm building them in 32" wide sections that can be unscrewed from the cleats below and lifted off if ever needed.  On the other wals it seems I can go with 38" sections where the track work isn't as complicated.  I'll have the terminals for the wires to disconnect for each module.  Track joints are close to the edge of these.  I'll just cut through the track pins if I ever need to move it.

Here is today's work.  The tan board will support the 6" high end of the passing siding.  The shiny boards will support where the two tracks cross over each other and the end of the sidings to the town on the hill.  

Nice to see construction moving forward, Mark!

   I’m glad you got the gist of my idea. Might be too complicated for what is actually needed but you know what will work for you.

  Keep at it!

Al

Looks great, Mark!  Keep going!

George

Looking good, Mark.  Keep on going.

looks nice Mark, keep up the good work, Phil

Good to see the progress.

One thought - be careful how much weight you put on the two particle board pieces in the last photo.  If a loco sits in the middle of either board, there's a good chance it will sag.

Mallard, Thank you for the advice!!  I have been questioning in my mind how these boards will hold up.  The tan board is leftover from building my Ceiling Central also supported on 16" centers, and I haven't had issues, but....   I did lean on the brown boards yesterday, but that is not the same weight for an extended period of time.  I wish I had the funds to go out and buy the best, but I don't, so I'm trying to make do with what I have.  It's a precarious juggle I must admit.  

Al, George, Dan, Phil, Thank you!!

Mark, from the finish on those pieces I gather they were salvaged from a piece of furniture? If so they'll probably be fine. The stuff they use in bookcases, table-tops and such is much more resistant to sag than flooring particle board.

Mark Boyce posted:

Mallard, Thank you for the advice!!  I have been questioning in my mind how these boards will hold up.  The tan board is leftover from building my Ceiling Central also supported on 16" centers, and I haven't had issues, but....   I did lean on the brown boards yesterday, but that is not the same weight for an extended period of time.  I wish I had the funds to go out and buy the best, but I don't, so I'm trying to make do with what I have.  It's a precarious juggle I must admit.  

Al, George, Dan, Phil, Thank you!!

The sag can take months or years.

One option is to take some 1x2 and use them on edge like girders to reinforce the boards.  Attach them on the underside with glue and screws (countersink the holes and screw from the top).  If the underside does not have the faux wood on it, use carpenter's or Elmer's white glue; otherwise, use gorilla glue.  

And don't ask me how I learned this stuff.

Lew, You are correct!  I mentioned that way back on page something-teen, so I don't blame you for not seeing it.    Most of it came from a deep, 6-foot tall bookcase.  The rest was from a rear projection television my late father-in-law had that the projector blew out.  What a monster that thing was when I tore it apart.  

Mallard, I won't ask how you know, but I do have a lot of material I salvaged from my dad's shop last fall before we sold the place, and I can buy some more 1x2.  I will attach bracing.  I have always used carpenter's glue, but I am starting to like Gorilla glue.  Thank you!!!  

Mark, I'd bet $ it will be fine without further support. If it hasn't sagged by now after being part of a bookcase for years it's not going to sag in future with a couple trains on it.   

Watching from afar.  Keep it up 

Mark, everything is looking great. If you’re concerned about the sagging, an economical option would be MDF Ultralight. It’s relatively inexpensive, lighter in weight than regular MDF, is strong and takes screws and paint well (prime first of course). Thanks for posting your progress.

Andy

Thank you Lew, Kevin, Andy!!

 Thank you for the suggestion on the MDF Ultralight!  I’ll look into it.  I will have to buy something at some point.

Laying down some board! Now the fun really begins

I've been working on designing my around the room layout and I never thought of using a bracket system like that instead of running legs down. Any cons other than holes in the wall?

Lance, I have not seen any cons other than the holes in the wall which could be easily patched.  It is nice and solid.  These brackets came from Lowes, are 20:long, and they claim they will hold 1000 pounds.  Oh, one con is that they are a few degrees over 90, so the table wouldn't be quite level.  Once I discovered it, I backed out the top lag bolts a quarter inch, slipped in the black composite shims that I had cut a slot in for the lag bolt, and tightened back up.  After that, I just drilled a big hole in the shims to accept the bolt.  I like the method a lot.

Good to hear Mark! I may look into that design option.

Lance, one more thing.  I actually put up the brackets on the first wall 2 years ago, and have had all kinds of stuff sitting on the tabletop over the two years.  Solid as a rock!!

Noted Mark! I may make a trip to the store this week and take a look at what they have to offer.

Mark, found this in another thread on shelf layouts - calculates sag for a wide variety of materials, and uses a lot of different variables.  I can't vouch for the science behind the calculations, but it looks promising:  http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

Looking good Mark. Glad you are making some progress.

Bob

Mark,

I really like your track plan.  You make very good use of the space available.  Too many people try to cram as much track as possible into the space available, aka spaghetti bowl.

just one question, do you really need such a steep grade on the back wall?

Keep up the great work.

Mark,  I'm a firm believer in L-girders.    An L-girder across the front would give improved support in addition to giving you the advantage of attaching the platform boards from below.   A 1x4 fascia board and a 1x3 or 1x2 top would make a nice girder.    The span on my layout is 4' between wall supports using a 1x4 & 1/2 L-girder front and a 2x4 & 1x3 L-girder plate against the wall.   The platform is 3/4 OSB that I reclaimed from construction dumpsters in our area and topped with 1/2" Homasote.  It has proven to be very stable - 6 years to date.   Nice to see your progress!

Cheers, Dave

Nice to see your progress. I also have built my benchwork from leftover bits and pieces. I found some 1x4 wood I had saved about 40 years ago. It has worked out just fine. I think the suggestion of some underside, glued/screwed 1x2 or larger wood is a good idea. No chance taking a chance on sagging in a few years.

I like that you are taking your time on the benchwork. My spare-room benchwork has been under construction for 3 years. Remember, you really can not fix shoddy benchwork easily in the future. so, it is good to catch any problems now. Keep up the good work and keep posting for us procrastinators.

Jeff

Mallard, Thank you for picking up the discussion again.  I love the term "The Sagulator"   I tried it out just now on a rough guess on what I am using, and it gave me an "Acceptable"  reply.  Nevertheless, I have been spending a couple hours each day since my last reply disassembling the tabletop I put on the first wall two years ago and making sure all my brackets are level; front to back and side to side.  To do that, I moved a bunch of stuff I don't need right now off the first tabletop and distributed it elsewhere.  I am at the point where I will make a decision on what bracing to use on the front and underneath.  The rub is I want to make the top in modules no longer than 48", when or if we move.  That is all dependent on my mother-in-law's health.  She lives across the road from us, is only 84, but in good health.  We only plan to live here until she either passes on or has to go to a home.  The rate she is going, we will be old ourselves by that time!  

Dave, Thank you for all the photographs!  Your benchwork looks great!  I like the narrow shelf below.  Yes, I see the L-girder.  I have used L girder before on a free-standing layout.  I see you made good use of the 2x4s as well.  I have a bunch of 2x4s I brought home from my Dad's that I can use where practical.

Jeff, I have a bunch of used wood some old and some not so old.  Good advice as Mallard is saying you can't fix bad benchwork after you get so far.

Jim, The grade is to accommodate the passing siding switches being flat.  Actually, the grade is quite similar to my favorite prototype, the Western Maryland's Blackwater Canyon grade that I want to model the feeling of some of the scenic features of the town of Thomas at the top of the grade, Parsons at the top of the grade, and some scenic features in between.  Early on in this topic, I tested all my engines pulling reasonably length trains up a simulated grade, and they worked okay.  Once I get to that point, I'll be testing again before anything final is put down.

Bob, thank you too, and thank you everyone for the suggestions and encouragement!!

I envisioned the PER would be an around-the-room shelf layout and originally thought to use shelf brackets--as a matter of fact almost identical to yours, Mark. I even ordered a few from the A-place.

But upon consideration I worried about the stability of the knee-wall studding. A lot of the finishing work in this old place was done by someone I think of as "the do-it-yourself-er" and not meant in any charitable way. As an example of his "craftsmanship", the guy installed one of those [then newfangled] fiberglass bathtubs and instead of nailing a 2X4 to the wall to rest the back edge of the tub on he simply hung the tub from nails driven through the [thin] fiberglass lip of the tub. When we bought the house the nails had broken the fiberglass lip and the tub floor was an inch off-level, sloping downwards toward the wall. 

So, not trusting those knee-wall studs to support a cantilevered large shelf bracket system I decided to use L-girders supported by posts and blocks screwed into studs. This is how it turned out:

I prefer shelf-brackets when possible though. For example, we were short on cash (selling one house AFTER buying another) so used the cheapest stuff for the laminated floor....and it probably won't last. I'm gonna' need a sky-hook to support the layout while the posts are removed to redo the floor. 

I’m finding all these pictures intriguing. My layout will be an around the wall one and these pictures will help! 

Can’t wait for more picture updates Mark!

Lew, I know the kind of do-it-yourselfer you encountered.  Our house in Virginia was like yours.  It was a small Cape Cod, four rooms and a bath downstairs and originally unfinished attic, that the previous owner divided into bedrooms.  That wasn't too bad, but he did a lot of rewiring and re plumbing, and all of it was messed up.  I fixed what I could, and hired professionals to do what I didn't know how to do.

News Flash!  In the time between my last post and now, Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf announced more counties to the Stay Home List, and Butler County was added to the list.  So, now I can't go buy lumber or hardware for the foreseeable future.  I knew it was coming since our county borders Allegheny County which initially was the only Western Pennsylvania county on the list.  Oh well, it is for the best.  Kim just told me one of our church members who is a few years older than me is in the ER.  He experienced a cough, fever, and shortness of breath, prompting his doctor to sent him to the ER.

I need to use up some of this old lumber anyway, so I'm going to do some figuring.  I can rip some of these wide boards into more manageable dimensions.

Lance, that is what is so great about following topics on this Forum.  I get a lot of ideas and information by discussions others are having.

As others have stated, the bench work is the foundation of your layout and functions the same as the foundation of your home.   Easy to fix before but difficult and expensive to fix in a retroactive manner.    My goal was to maintain floor clearance and minimize legs.   Therefore, allow me to share a few more pictures.   PS:  I tend to over build!

Cheers, Dave

Dave, Thank you for the extra photographs!  It’s better to overbuild than under build for sure!

Mark, sorry to hear your on lock down, as we are also. but that's ok like you I have plenty to keep me busy here! The funny thing is I can still order lumber or whatever I need from Lowes and they will deliver it to my home.

I am glad to see things are moving along with your layout build. I also used the L girder method and it works great! Gives me plenty of room under the layout and supports my 180Lbs when I crawl on top of it!

Either way I hope your having fun with your build!

darlander posted:

As others have stated, the bench work is the foundation of your layout and functions the same as the foundation of your home.   Easy to fix before but difficult and expensive to fix in a retroactive manner.    My goal was to maintain floor clearance and minimize legs.   Therefore, allow me to share a few more pictures.   PS:  I tend to over build!

Well done.

"I built it too strong" is near the top of the list of things that nobody ever says.

I made some more progress.  I installed the front facia boards from old wood as can be seen.  Now the whole framework is rock solid.  I can't shake it or move any of it even a smidgen.  I extended the boards on the next side that will support the risers and roadbed.  Supported every 16 inches and on one side they should work.  I did not make the special cut for the back curve in the corner because it started raining, and I had to bring the saw and horses inside.

I did this rough mockup to show how my concept is planned to work.  It is easiest to show here because there will be just one track going up left to right, and one going down left to right.

This photograph will represent one 3x4 foot module.  The three longer 2x4s represent stringers to hold the module together if or when I remove the few screws from the bottom that hold it to the basic framework.  I will have risers up to the rear plywood roadbed only wide enough to support the track and attach the scenery base.  The front track will have trestle bents at every 12" track joint so that where the front track is higher than the rear track, you can still see through to the track and scenery.  I did not make any effort here to show the correct grades.

To answer why I didn't just make a complete tabletop, I want to do as much wiring as possible standing up.  I will run the wires above the brackets that are on 16" centers and tie them in to the sides of the flat baseboards, so that after disconnecting the wiring between each module, the module will lift off the wall brackets with all wiring coming with the module.  It's hard to mock up, so we will wait until I get to that point.  I'm pleased with the progress.

Mark, I really like your modular construction approach, especially with much of the wiring being done from above. 

Mark,

Things are moving along. I'm sure you were in a groove before the clouds opened up. But some progress is better than no progress. Keep it coming.

Dave

Mark, nice progress, and smart move regarding the access for wiring. 👍🏻

Andy

Great job!

Peter

Mark- I like the open framing idea. My next layout will be open framing and roadbed only where track will be. Scenery areas can be filled in later.

Bob

Mark Boyce posted:

I made some more progress.  I installed the front facia boards from old wood as can be seen.  Now the whole framework is rock solid.  I can't shake it or move any of it even a smidgen.  I extended the boards on the next side that will support the risers and roadbed.  Supported every 16 inches and on one side they should work.  I did not make the special cut for the back curve in the corner because it started raining, and I had to bring the saw and horses inside.

 

....

To answer why I didn't just make a complete tabletop, I want to do as much wiring as possible standing up.  I will run the wires above the brackets that are on 16" centers and tie them in to the sides of the flat baseboards, so that after disconnecting the wiring between each module, the module will lift off the wall brackets with all wiring coming with the module.  It's hard to mock up, so we will wait until I get to that point.  I'm pleased with the progress.

Mother Nature and that "rain" thing getting in the way 

Great idea on the wiring format Mark.  Can't wait until the day I finally get to a round the room layout.  I get to stand constructing my ceiling layout, but my neck is still at a 45-degree angle.  Ugh.

Thank you everyone!  Yes sitting on my little roll around seat to put in the screws from underneath that hold the modules to the frame is enough under the layout work for me.   

I have had a lot of time to think this out.  I just can't seem to put my ideas on paper to show you ahead of time, so I'll do it with the mock ups.

Kevin, Yes my Ceiling Central Railroad was a literal pain in the neck!!  Putting it over the 6' 8" doors with a ceiling at 7' 6" high doesn't give much room to work.  That is why I never neatened it up.  Once it was running, I just left it.  

Mark, this is fantastic, great work, great progress.  Keep the pictures flowing. Stay healthy, stay safe, have fun working on the Blackwater Canyon Line... Amazing.

Keep up the good work, Mark - even a little a day and it'll be done in no time !

Mark, your doing a great job! See the slow and easy method sure makes life a little easier on the body! I wish I would have done more planning but its to late to go back and start over! LOL

Thank you Larry, Richie, Mike!!

All three of you gave the good advice to take things slow and good things will come.    Last evening I disconnected the wires to the Ceiling Central RR and removed the TIU and terminal block board from the wooden roll around cart I built two winters ago.  Some may recall that was intended to be a rollout section for a turnback loop, but became a cart holding all the boxed Christmas trains and my two sets of Western Maryland passenger cars when not in use.

Today, I moved the cart in under the family room layout build that is on hold until more of that room becomes available.  That may never happen, but that's okay.  I am happy to be working on this new plan in the 11 x 11 original train room.    It now gives me more working space since it does get a bit cramped moving 4-foot pieces of lumber around now that I have 30-inch deep shelves on two sides.  

I'll get some photographs up after I clean the room up a bit.  Right now I'm listening to my wife's piano playing since she is laid off.  I guess we are two old folks since she may never work again either.  

Since this is my topic, I will choose to post a photograph on what our innovative younger daughter is doing since both the coffee shop and music store she works at are closed.  She gives private piano and voice lessons to about 35 students ranging from 5 to early 60s.  She is now doing Skype music lessons from home with a number of students.  Word got around, and she was contacted by the Butler Eagle newspaper to be part of a story in their monthly local business special on how different people are being productive from home.  Now if her sister could find space in their house that isn't damp, we could get her piano out of our family room to make room for more important things like layout building!!  

Congrats to your daughter, that’s awesome.