New Vision Line Class A Locomotive

I wonder if a sound set and flat speaker could be squeezed into a false bottom on a hopper.

I'm interesting in seeing the locomotive in the catalog. I'm not overly interested in it but I think that's because I don't know the history/story of the locomotive. I hope the mystery feature is a detail oriented item. Lionel Voice Control and that kind of stuff does appeal to some people but it's definitely not my thing.

I'm also pleased to see 3D printing being used in the prototype. I hope that positively impacts the cost of prototyping and helps bring new items to market. We'll see!

I would think the "surprise feature" would have to be something associated with the aux tender. Perhaps a unique sound set that is specific to the tender and a smoke unit that simulates water transfer at the hose hook up.

Or perhaps smoke simulation from the brake shoes when applying the train brake.

Just spitballing.

@N'awlins posted:

Or perhaps smoke simulation from the brake shoes when applying the train brake.

Just spitballing.

That would be a pretty sweet feature. I never considered that one!

I like spitballing new features. It's a good time to see what else could happen that I never even thought of.

@N'awlins posted:

I would think the "surprise feature" would have to be something associated with the aux tender. Perhaps a unique sound set that is specific to the tender and a smoke unit that simulates water transfer at the hose hook up.

Or perhaps smoke simulation from the brake shoes when applying the train brake.

Just spitballing.

Water is "transferred" constantly.  The tender and auxiliary are essentially one unit.  There is no smoke, steam, sound or pumps associated with it.

It's like a two basin sink with a clog in the p-trap.  The water level is the same in both basins.  When the clog is cleared, the water level will recede equally from both basins.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Water is "transferred" constantly.  The tender and auxiliary are essentially one unit.  There is no smoke, steam, sound or pumps associated with it.

It's like a two basin sink with a clog in the p-trap.  The water level is the same in both basins.  When the clog is cleared, the water level will recede equally from both basins.

Rusty

Thanks, Rusty. Awesome information.

I have the TMCC version and am eagerly awaiting ordering one of these beauties.

@Rusty Traque posted:

Water is "transferred" constantly.  The tender and auxiliary are essentially one unit.  There is no smoke, steam, sound or pumps associated with it.

It's like a two basin sink with a clog in the p-trap.  The water level is the same in both basins.  When the clog is cleared, the water level will recede equally from both basins.

How is water transferred to the locomotive?  It would seem that you'd have to have some pumping there to get it to the proper level for the boiler.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

How is water transferred to the locomotive?  It would seem that you'd have to have some pumping there to get it to the proper level for the boiler.

That is done by injectors on the locomotive.  There is one (normally) on each side of the locomotive.  One for the fireman and on for the engineer.  Steam passing over a nozzle in the injector creating a venturi effect drawing water from the tender.  Think of a steam powered airbrush...

Before injectors, there was a pump connected to the crosshead and water could only be added when the locomotive was in motion.

Here is the fireman's injector on IRM's 1630:

There is also a valve further up that the fireman operates to admit steam to start the injector.

Rusty

Cool, we called them jet pumps when we used them for aircraft fuel systems.   Only difference was we pumped fuel through to create the venturi effect to move more fuel.

If the valve is operated and no one is around to hear it....

Do the injectors make a noise that could be the new feature in January?

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

N&W's Class As were coal haulers

The "Twelve Hundreds" were time freight and passenger haulers too! "Class A - Mercedes of Steam" (a book by Ed King)!

@BillYo414 posted:

If the valve is operated and no one is around to hear it....

Do the injectors make a noise that could be the new feature in January?

They do make a noise. As so many other locomotives, the A's had an injector on the engineer's side and a cold water pump for the feedwater heater on the fireman's side.

I have a recording of 1218 in service in the late fifties sitting still and you can hear the injector, stoker and air pumps working.

I saw a TMCC scale version at this past York selling at $500. Could have offered the seller $450 cash which is what they are about selling for. I predict more of those will hit the buy/sell boards soon with the Vision one coming out soon. This is one scale engine I don’t have yet and with some of John’s aka Gunrunner mods done to it, might be well worth buying.

@Ted Bertiger posted:

I saw a TMCC scale version at this past York selling at $500. Could have offered the seller $450 cash which is what they are about selling for. I predict more of those will hit the buy/sell boards soon with the Vision one coming out soon. This is one scale engine I don’t have yet and with some of John’s aka Gunrunner mods done to it, might be well worth buying.

That's what I usually see them priced at, at shows.   If I can get one for that price, might have Sid/Bruk install Legacy and beat the high cost Lionel is going to charge.

We're doing a Ryan & Dave show tomorrow and we'll talk about this engine if anyone is interested.

@Ted Bertiger posted:

I saw a TMCC scale version at this past York selling at $500. Could have offered the seller $450 cash which is what they are about selling for. I predict more of those will hit the buy/sell boards soon with the Vision one coming out soon. This is one scale engine I don’t have yet and with some of John’s aka Gunrunner mods done to it, might be well worth buying.

Funny thing, I just finished the Lionel Class-A for a customer, cruise, Super-Chuffer, Chuff-Generator, etc.  It actually is a nice locomotive, I was tempted at York as I saw several for sale.  However, I have too many personal projects still on the back burner to add one right now.

@Dave Olson posted:

We're doing a Ryan & Dave show tomorrow and we'll talk about this engine if anyone is interested.

Will we hear about the mystery feature?

Is the mystery feature that it takes off like a jet plane and lands perfectly on all 3 rails? Lol!
Can’t imagine what else Lionel can have these engines do?

@Dave Olson posted:

We're doing a Ryan & Dave show tomorrow and we'll talk about this engine if anyone is interested.

Can't make the live show but I'll definitely watch it later if it's uploaded.

@Big Jim posted:

They do make a noise. As so many other locomotives, the A's had an injector on the engineer's side and a cold water pump for the feedwater heater on the fireman's side.

I have a recording of 1218 in service in the late fifties sitting still and you can hear the injector, stoker and air pumps working.

So we **could** find out the mystery feature is an increase in the number of available sounds. Good to know.

@Ted Bertiger posted:

I saw a TMCC scale version at this past York selling at $500. Could have offered the seller $450 cash which is what they are about selling for. I predict more of those will hit the buy/sell boards soon with the Vision one coming out soon. This is one scale engine I don’t have yet and with some of John’s aka Gunrunner mods done to it, might be well worth buying.

There were quite a few of these out there at the show. I do believ that was probably the best priced one. IIRC one person had one for $650, and another I want to say $900? I could be confusing the $900 one for the Pennsy T1 Duplex as there quite a bit of those as well with the same range in pricing.

@Ted Bertiger posted:

Is the mystery feature that it takes off like a jet plane and lands perfectly on all 3 rails? Lol!
Can’t imagine what else Lionel can have these engines do?

Maybe it actually runs on coal and water.

@Dave Olson posted:

We're doing a Ryan & Dave show tomorrow and we'll talk about this engine if anyone is interested.

Dave,

If you are listening, could you please tuck the cold water pump back inside the width of the cab? The previous model had the cold water pump sticking way out from under the cab...not cool!

dang i forgot about the Ryan and Dave show tomarrow

i wish lionel would reveal all the mth tooling they bought like atlas did but we just have to keep an eye on future catalogs

i hope they bought the  railking dash 8 and GS4 tooling

a lionchief 2.0 daylight set would be awesome

I can never remember what time the Ryan & Dave show is at because I almost always never see it live. What time is it supposed to be at, and I wonder if they'll be answering what is the normal range of questions?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I can never remember what time the Ryan & Dave show is at because I almost always never see it live. What time is it supposed to be at, and I wonder if they'll be answering what is the normal range of questions?

3 pm.  Steaming live on FB and Youtube.  Wonder what crazy outfit Dave Olson will be in.  LOL

Thanks Gary. Should see about asking if the painted samples for stuff going forward are shells for all products coming out and not just engines. Doubt they'd answer that live though.

One of my guesses for the mystery feature... camera in the doghouse on the tender?

We already have the Cupola Camera cabooses to get that crew's view - this way we could possibly see what the headend breakman sees

@Prr7688 posted:

One of my guesses for the mystery feature... camera in the doghouse on the tender?

We already have the Cupola Camera cabooses to get that crew's view - this way we could possibly see what the headend breakman sees

I'm thinking the same. Doghouse would be cool. I was thinking cab or front of the boiler. It would be awesome!!

With all new tooling, it looks like there is going to be an A in my future. An "as built" version! This is going to get interesting come January.

@Prr7688 posted:

One of my guesses for the mystery feature... camera in the doghouse on the tender

Now that would be worthless! You would only be looking at the end of a box car!

Anyway, they are still not talking about the secret.

@Big Jim posted:

Now that would be worthless! You would only be looking at the end of a box car!

I mean it could be a wide angle camera or you could pull a flat car. The camera could also rotate.

I'm not sure how great the cupola cams were.

The cupola cams are ok but I’m not sure they’re visionline worthy. To me it doesn’t need to be new. I would like to see the swinging bell, dynamo steam  and cylinder steam chest also included.  That would be impressive but probably wouldn’t fit.  It it’s fun to dream.

Well, have had not so good of a night, but finally getting down to watching the Ryan & Dave Show. In case anyone missed it, you can see it here"

Ryan & Dave Show with new VL N&W Class A

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

I saw that Lionel has announced a cool new Vision Line Norfolk and Western Class A 2-6-6-4. It's not what I was expecting, but it is pretty cool. N&W's Class As were coal haulers, so Lionel should make some new coal hoppers to go with their new engine. Also, I would like to see a Vision freight car with new sounds to match the Class As. I don't know how they could put a sound set and speaker into a hopper. A box car, reefer, tank car, or passenger car are perfect for making sound cars. I guess Lionel's designers could cover the Legacy boards and speaker with the coal load. Then operators would need to remove the load to access the switches and volume knob for the boards.

Actually the Class A was designed, built, and operated as a passenger loco. It wasn't until later that it was moved to dual service with freight, and later to freight completely.

I also think that is why lionel has a fantasy passenger paint scheme as an option for the loco

@SB30 posted:

Actually the Class A was designed, built, and operated as a passenger loco. It wasn't until later that it was moved to dual service with freight, and later to freight completely.

I also think that is why lionel has a fantasy passenger paint scheme as an option for the loco

That is not true. Read Ed King's book "The A, Norfolk And Western's Mercedes Of Steam" (revised and expanded edition). The Class A 2-6-6-4 was developed as a "fast freight" locomotive (Pg.64)! Shorts stints in passenger service came later.

I came across one concern about the new Class A offering from Lionel in watching the Trainland video. That is, the 3D printed sample shows a cover over the steam turret that sits atop the boiler just in front of the cab. The Class A's did not have this cover in their normal lifetime. Only after one shopping of the 1218 in excursion service was this cover applied and later it was removed. So, it is only prototypical for a very short timeframe.
I am hoping that this cover does not make its way onto most of the models because it will cover up a lot of detail.
Who do I contact at Lionel about this before it is too late?

See blow @Big Jim

Paging @Dave Olson, come in Dave! haha

Or you can drop him a line at dolson@lionel.com according to his profile.

I wonder if that cover will be removeable though.

Thanks Bill. I'll give it a try.

I'm still waiting for a reply to Jim's post reply on the Trainworld topic that I messaged both Ryan and Dave. Maybe tomorrow someone will reply.

Dave NYC,
It has been over a week and I have not had a reply yet.

@Big Jim posted:

Dave NYC,
It has been over a week and I have not had a reply yet.

Ditto here. I never got back any messages from my email to Ryan and Dave. I asked Ken Jr to ask about it directly to Ryan on the TrainWorld event they had recently, but my questions wasn't asked the way I asked it. So, still at square one. When I get home I could message again, but doubt that will get any notice. Only other thing would be for you to reach out to Ryan. I can shoot you his email when I get home and hope you have better luck than me.