Next Stop, Hollywood . . .

Wish the length was listed.

SCL 6501 Sun Ray - (ex-SAL 20 Hollywood Beach) PS LW corrugated 5 DBR - Sun Room lounge. (RR PICTURE ARCHIVES)

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/Seaboard.htm

should be a beautiful set,  anyone have idea on cost yet?  they show TBD on the reservation page....

Mark

Steve - 85' coupled.

I'd really like the sun lounge as a solo item. Any chance Scott and Co? I realize it'd cost more than the solid roof add on cars. 

This is great news. Thanks Scott and Bob. I'm hoping for an E8 in the citrus scheme to pull the Silver Meteor. Leon

Leon, that would be sweet.

I don't know if any E8s were still painted in the Citrus scheme by 1956 though.  The mechanical dept issued a drawing in 1954 with the new mint green scheme for all repaints after that time.  Also, in 1950 the yellow roofs was repainted Pullman Green (I think to hide all the dirt/soot accumulation).

They sure knew how to "purty" them up.

I have the 3rd Rail E7 in the mint scheme so I doubt I'll get the E8.

From Bob Heil and myself.  There's a slight correction in the ad:

The correct 6 car consist will be Baggage-Dormitory-Coach, diner , observation-tavern-lounge, 52-seat coach, 10-6 sleeper, and sun-lounge.

Extra cars are observation-tavern-lounge, 52-seat coach, 10-6 sleeper.

These are the names of the Budd cars as called out in "The Passenger Car Library, Vol 6 (Southeastern Railroads)" by W. David Randall.

The Sun-Lounge was a Pullman product.

WHAT ???? Come on, Bob. How can you pass the E8's up? At least one of them.

SAL modelers: give Bob Delbridge a big thank you for making this announcement come to fruition. Bob has put an enormous amount of effort in to this project so far.

As an aside, the Budd cars are fluted including the roofs. The Pullman Standard sun lounge has fluted sides and a smooth roof. The observation included in the 6 car set is the boat tail style with Silver Meteor tail emblem. The tavern car is not a boat tail car but a standard flat end car.

Now all we need is another run of GG1's in silver with the red stripe and large keystone to pull the train on the Pennsy portion of your layouts.

Is the tavern lounge obs separate item the boat tail obs with the diaphragm added to the rear end?

The boat tail (tapered end) OBS with the diaphragms were originally built w/o the diaphragms.  My recommendation was to build them without the diaphragm and all the sheet metal that went with it on the boat tail end.  Of the series of 6 (SAL 6600-6605) OBS cars I suggested I think 2 or 3 never got the diaphragm.

I don't know if a diaphragm adapter kit could be a possibility or not, I've never researched it (IMO not as attractive as the boat tail end).  Plus a diaphragm ended car wouldn't have had the Silver Meteor drum head if it was mid-train.

Of course that's just me, if enough people want it tell GGD, it would be nice if they could make a detachable/interchangeable piece.

Thanks Bob, I enjoyed learning the history behind some of these cars and trains.

I'd still like the Pullman 10-6 sleepers (especially the "PORTSMOUTH"), but I understand what's involved to make 2 or 3 extrusions with different fluting.  Maybe if GGD makes the 10-6 PRR cars (that were identical to the SAL cars) they can throw in a few SAL cars too

I don't think we've gotten far enough to know if any cars will be offered lettered for SCL or Amtrak, but the car names/numbers have been collected and sent.

There is an "upside" to all this.  Budd cars came in three styles - I assume without knowing that the standard Budd car is the one SAL used.  It is used by SP, PRR, Great Northern, and lots and lots of others.  Lionel came close, but blew it with that lower number board area.

A distinctive Budd car was the Zephyr - just more flutes.  You have to add letterboards.

And finally, the slab-side Budd car is found on PRR and on GN and NP Dome cars.  Once ese extrusions are done, many different railroads and window arrangements are possible. Mac Shops did them all, and Sunset and K-Line have both done at least one.

The Pullman cars are likewise divided into three common extrusions.  Kasiner did the most common one, used by NYC and Santa Fe, among many others including probably SAL. This is the one K-Line did, and incorrectly used it for SP.

Sunset has done e SP extrusions, but they are only used on SP, Rock Island, and Santa Fe, to my knowledge.  

And finally, the C&O/ DRGW variant is just the old Kasiner with the top flutes removed.

Once all these extrusions (and of course the smooth sided ones) are on hand, the limit is simply windows and paint schemes.  Just don't lose the extrusion dies!

One maker often overlooked is ACF.  Seaboard and other RRs had a number of ACF  cars on their roster.  Seaboard's cars seemed to have smooth roofs and large fluting on the sides, with small fluting on the skirts.

Seaboard also purchased excess cars from FEC, and B&O (or C&O), but I'm not sure if the window arrangement stayed the same on all of them as often SAL would redo the interiors which may have caused the windows to be relocated.

Some folks don't care about window placement, but I feel correct placement makes or breaks a model when depicting a specific RR, not an easy thing for manufacturers when trying to appease all of us finicky modelers

It was nice when blank extrusions were available.  We have been able to buy almost all styles of blanks at one time or another.  Doesn't OK have your ACF?

The Speer SP extrusions were among the most accurate, and may still be available, along with smooth.

Bob, they don't mention ACF in their catalog.

Plus, the OK Pullman extrusion (from what I've seen and been told) have only the small fluting on the sides and roof, the Seaboard Pullman 10-6 sleeper had large fluting on the sides and small fluting on the roof and skirts (Pullman actually used Budd fluted roofing material on these cars!!!).  I had enough fun removing every other flute when I made my Sun-Lounge car, don't want to have to repeat that process.

 Which are THE most expensive elements.  Each window variation is a separate male and female punch set and each car is individually painted and lettered by hand.  The extrusions dies are one of the cheapest elements.

The best way is going to be 3D Printing...on steroids!!!  Hope to live long enough to see it

Just think, bring up the car (file) of your choice on your computer/device and press the PRINT key.  Out pops an almost ready to run model of your favorite car with correct everything, made from a strong material that will hold up for several miles around the layout.  When it breaks, make another.

Now, back to the future reality.

There are already 3d printed cars like that, at least NYC subway cars.  And I believe the complete kits run $4-500 each car so not cheap by any means.

Of course accurate windows and paint are expensive on RTR models.  I was posting about blank extrusions.  If you own a small end mill, windows can be done in about 45 minutes. If you own a CNC machine, you probably could do windows to any specification without the expensive punch and die tooling that has been used in the past.

I mostly do my own paint, although I really do like what K-Line did back in thenolden days.

I can't wait until Scott actually/officially announces this on the forum, most likely after York

Bob,

 When post war orders were placed for passenger cars to re-equip the NYC to Florida passenger trains, there was a sharing of car orders between ACL, SAL, FEC, PRR, and RF&P.  With this proposed Golden Gate Depot SAL trainset, do you know if any of the cars match up with actual RF&P cars?

I have the book Streamliners New York to Florida, and it shows that in the 1947 order for cars for SAL route trains there were some RF&P Budd 52 seat coaches. If they match up with the SAL cars, can some of the GGD cars  be done up in RF&P?

Ken

Ken,

(Had to pull my chart out)...YEP!  The Budd 52-seat coaches were from the same order (or group or orders) from what I read, identical for SAL (6215-6226), RF&P (850-857), and PRR (4058-4067).

The SAL cars were later renumbered as SCL (5200-5211) and Amtrak (5200-5211).

Bob Heil/Scott Mann would be the one to answer if they're going to offer them for RF&P and PRR (and possibly SCL, Amtrak).  Maybe at a later time or at the same time, I don't know.  I know Bob is going to meet with Scott just prior to York and they'll both be there.

I'd say email GGD now and let them know, and if you're going to York stop at their booth to say hello and get your wishes known.  With the 52-seat coach being offered in the "extras" it might stand a chance of getting done for all the RRs involved.

I wonder how they attach the number/letter boards?  If that's the only difference is it possible to simply pop one off and put on another?  I currently don't own any GGD passenger cars so I don't know.

Now that I have re-read the above, it is semi-clear that the Budd extrusions will be the ones with the full length letterboard above the windows, and the one Pullman car sounds like a Kasiner type, or NYC/ATSF.

If so, the PRR and RFP cars could be done with something like artists' Chart Pak tape - adhesive backed tape with the road name printed on.  That's assuming that the Seaboard just painted the letterboard or lettered it - I know the PRR had a tuscan stripe, and the ACL was purple.  Maybe each set could have extra tapes - kill three birds with one set of extrusions?

So I post, then do a Google search.  The Seaboard apparently used the Zephyr-type extrusion, and PRR/ACL And others used the style the Sunset Limited used.

So sooner or later, all the different extrusions will again be available, albeit with windows already punched.  My idea with the tape won't work.

Here's a picture of the RF&P coach.

I/we need to find out when the RRs did away with the full-width diaphragms.  The SAL Baggage-Dormitory car came with a full-width on the dormitory end and a regular diaphragm on the baggage end!!!

The photo I have of the 52-seat coach shows all 3 RRs (SAL, RF&P, and PRR) with the full-width diaphragms.  I know SAL changed them out to the regular width at some point, just don't know when.

Guess I’ll have to settle for trains that fit on my layout. LOL!

A 43 year SCL wait was long enough so I did these up just to have a passenger set.

Bob  

Early production PRR post-war P85 coaches delivered in 1947 came with full width diaphragms like the PRR's pre-war lightweights. Cars delivered 1948 and on were equipped with standard width diaphragms.  When the full width equipped pre-war lightweights were repainted in the post-war 3 stripe scheme (around 1949) they came out of the shop with new standard width diaphragms.  I don't know when other roads made the switch.

Ed Rappe 

Thanks Ed!  My guess is (at least for the RRs associated with the Silver Meteor) they all got away from the full-width diaphragms around the same time frame, if for appearances if nothing else.  Ease of maintenance was probably the driving factor.

Here's what I'm hoping for:

I don't know if I like the full-width diaphragms or not, does kinda make the train look like a long tube going down the track.

Bob,

Good luck on getting the cars that you want--you sure have lobbied hard for this consist.

Norm

Thanks Norm   It's going to take a lot more folks than me to make this happen so PLEASE everyone/anyone going to York let Scott Mann know you're interested.

If you look at Lionel  postwar aluminum pass car ends , the plastic end is a full width diaphragm or close to it .Weaver and Williams used these ends too.

I do have some Weaver N&W cars, they look pretty nice.  The only issue I had with them was the trucks were very short, when they should have been 8'-6" centers.

That's one thing GGD could make a killing from, selling truck sets separately

Check with Scott. I bought some Pullman trucks from Sunset/GGD a couple of years ago.

Also, check MTH's 4-wheel lightweight car trucks. Dunno if they match your prototype, but they are beuatiful and fairly inexpensive.

Rex,  I do have GGD trucks under 2 of my OK Engines cars, I got them a couple of years ago after doing what you did.

I also have 3 MTH Premier cars that have nice looking trucks, but I believe they are a bit short (not as short as the Weaver trucks though).  A few of my other cars ride on K-Line by Lionel 4-wheel trucks.  Not as nice as the GGD trucks but they are 8'-6" centers.

My 4 pairs of Weaver trucks now reside in my parts box, I did like the way they attached to the carbody floor.

Measured my MTH trucks. Wheel base is 8'6".

The MTH screw down through the floor attachment is awkward; have to drill the center out to take a more typical screw-mounting.

I just measured my MTH trucks, 6'-0" centers, must be an early (Seaboard) Premier set !!!  The Weaver trucks are 7'-0", so I got my brands reversed in my comment above.

That makes the MTH set 5/8" too short, quite noticeable when you see them side-by-side with the 8'-6" trucks.