Not a good beginning for my DCS experience!

Yes Allen, like I said, I'm sure it will get figured out.  I have no bad feelings for DCS.  I just prefer regular TMCC over it and Legacy.  And when the author of this thread writes 'Not a good beginning for my DCS experience' and that is just the beginning of the beginning...

I'm just happy where I'm at right now.  I've got a big, beautiful never run TMCC ACL GP7 on it's way to me now.  Can't wait to see her.  Cheers

I didn't give up on it, just on this particular issue, the ball's in MTH's court.  I have to say that I like the Legacy controller better, but some of the customization you can do with DCS is nice as well.  I think MTH would be well served to update the controller for DCS to a more modern design.

When I got the Legacy, I just changed the wire from the TMCC command base and started running trains.  I was hoping DCS would go as smoothly.

Correct, and it is virtually impossible to ask the right questions when you're rattling around on the bottom of the technical learning curve and only hearing your own echo.

John, you have the patience of a saint!  For all you've been through so far, you have my admiration.  Since this thing appears to be more 'plug n pray' than the other way; as a novice I would have deep sixed the device out of frustration.

I purchased Barry's book since I was planning to purchase a DCS system in the near future.  Now perhaps I'll wait until a newer version is produced.  Or, maybe I'll go with the Legacy since I'm still old school with two wires & a few ZWs.

A few weeks ago, I was going to post the question as to which system is better and why.  And secondly, if I were to purchase one system over the other, which features would be lost on each's opposite system.

I won't clutter up this post with those two questions now, but rather save them for a later date once you've had a chance to evaluate your new or repaired DCS.

Good luck and

Best regards,

Dave

Both questions are relatively easy to answer.

The first answer is that "better" is strictly a matter of one's personal preferences and experience (often combined with a bit of personal bias).  You will almost never get an unbiased and fully objective response to that one.  Ask it on this forum, and the responses will favor DCS.  Ask it in the YMCC/Legacy forum, and you'll get the other perspective.

As for the second, DCS will operate both PS2/3 and TMCC/Legacy locomotives, with some features lost.  Lionel's system, to the best of my knowledge, will not operate PS2/3 locomotives.

A good number of folks own and operate both systems...probably the best solution of all at the present time.

My opinion is that both have pluses that get the most of their respective engines and both have minuses.  I got both to get the best of both worlds.

As a lurker only of DCS, I think I've gleaned, that DCS only is a lot simpler setup than adding DCS to a Legacy equipped layout.  Would it be fair to say, that opens a whole new can of worms?   

I had no problem running the two together.

Sending it back to MTH or the dealer is the answer.  When I bought my first AIU, I could not get it to work or be recognized by the TIU. Since I was also relatively new to DCS, I assumed it was me, so I checked and rechecked and finally took the darn thing back.  Discovered I had one of the AIUs that was issued with the bad phone cord, where the ends were reversed.  Got a new a cord and it worked as advertised.  

But it sure is frustrating when you are just starting out and you get a defective item.  

William,

Would it be fair to say, that opens a whole new can of worms?  

Not in the slightest.

They are completely different systems and, aside from some TMCC and/or Legacy engines that can adversely affect the DCS signal, there are no issues at all when operating the two, even with engines of both kinds running on the same track, at the same time.

I am sorry to read about Gunrunner John's DSC problems.

For me, hooking up the MTS DCS system was so easy a cave man can do it!

The thing worked like a charm right out of the box.

I'm at the point that I believe I cannot live without DCS. 

Of course, Barry's DCS book is always by my side on the iPad... just in case!

I'm sure the DCS system will grow on me once I have one that works properly.   I can see the benefits of each, and besides I love to see come competition in the train market, makes for better products in the long run.

I've seen some people jumping through hoops with TMCC/Legacy as well, so I guess with this system, it was just my turn in the barrel.   I only hope that when I get it back, I don't have to take another turn in the barrel!

Legacy or TMCC has a single button to reverse.  Neutral on those, as it is on DCS, is just throttle back to zero.   You can also control the individual volumes on Legacy, but not plain TMCC locomotives.

I'm still not giving up on DCS, I am a bit annoyed that I have to do this little raindance, but it's not the first time.

I still think for great sound, the Legacy locomotives are top of the heap.  I like the fact that DCS is a two-way system, there is a lot of potential for expansion for that capability.

Bottom line?  I'm not planning on giving up on either system.

FWIW, mine was as easy as yours to install, it wasn't until it started crapping out and caused a crash that I realized something was amiss.  For anywhere from 20 minutes to over an hour, it ran great.  I think it's as good a Legacy for slow speed performance, one thing that I like about both.  TMCC is behind them in that regard, the standard being only 32 speed steps.

Yes you can.  AUX1 and 1 and 4.  G

Aux1+1 is volume up, Aux1+4 is volume down, and Aux1+7 is Tower Comm.  I have never seen anything written that you can change the volume of individual sounds on RS4 locomotives.

Senior moment I saw the 7 under the cover plate.  Yes down is 4.  You did not say RS4, you said plain TMCC engines:-).  Try it, not sure I have a RS 4 board, but all the others work.  Not sure why they would remove that feature. 

RS5 may have the additional controls, but the majority of "plain" TMCC engines I would assume have RS4.  In any case, I'm talking about RS4 equipped stuff, just one volume.

Bob from VA:  Wait until you get to try the control features of DCS.  Being able to independently control multiple locos within the same block is alone worth the cost.

Gunrunner already has Legacy so he's familiar with being able to do that.

Forgot to mention that!!!

I had a small switching session tonight with all 3 of my PS2 engines on the layout.

I had my NW2 making up a train in the yard for the GP9 to take into town.  Once in town the GP9 broke off to pickup and return the cars that were ready to go while my 0-6-0 was busy spotting the newly arrived cars.  I almost had a wreck when the GP9 was leaving as I had not cleared the 0-6-0 at the time.  I can see why some folks have a "crew" to help them

It's really cool to watch one train heading off in one direction while another train passes in the opposite direction.  The opposing movement makes for an optical illusion, especially when the 2 trains are moving at different speeds.

Right now I have no blocks wired into my trackwork that have to be turned on/off, it's good to know I can have multiple engines running on a single "block".

Marty E:  I was addressing Bod [Delbridge] from VA, not the gunrunner

Don't think so.  The early stuff was 2.5 and then some have a 2.7 marking, anyway my earliest Engines have volume control and so do some of my later steamers with components.  All via the AUX1 1 and 4 switch.  Even the original MTH PS-1 had volume control remotely through the resets.   They all have volume pots, but you can step through several layers remotely.  Even mute.  Give it a try.  G

I think you missed the whole point.  I never said they didn't have remote volume control, we were specifically talking about being able to independently control the volume of sound effects and the whistle/bell separately.  RS4 and earlier don't do that, Legacy and DCS have that option.  To refresh your memory, I said:

You can also control the individual volumes on Legacy, but not plain TMCC locomotives

That's actually one of the major reasons for command/control!   I've had up to 5 locomotives on one power district, that was taxing the 180W I suspect.

Yes,  Now your point is clearer; no independent control of sound features like the newer systems have.  Actually I don't think anyone brought up sound control but you, and I failed to read between your lines:-)  I just didn't want anyone to think TMCC doesn't have sound control features.  G

The message right before mine says:

the other stuff like changing the volume of individual sounds is icing on the cake

John, I have a suggestion for you.

How about picking up a spare TIU to use while yours is away getting repaired?

I keep a spare TIU, DCS handheld, and command base, just so I am not high and dry if one should pack up.

You can also use your spare TIU at the workbench for downloading soundfiles and software updates.

Just a thought.

Rod

While I'd love a spare TIU, I'm not sure I can justify it until I have a few more MTH PS2/PS3 locomotives.  Right now I have three, and one upgrade kit on the way.  I just popped for the $269 for the first system, I'd like to get that one laying flat before adding another one.

I have been looking around for a bargain priced AIU to go with it, but so far no luck.

I already have several CAB1 remotes and a base, as well as two CAB2 remotes and the Legacy base, so I've got plenty of trains to run while I wait.

I do have two DCS remotes, so if a bargain ever comes along on another TIU, I'll probably bite.

At the pace of change in electronic technology, we might see a DCS or TMCC set sitting in the Smithsonian soon

I worry that I won't be able to get all PS2 upgrade kits I want when I want them.  As expensive as they are I can only buy 1 at a time, several months apart.  With the need for 4 of them I may run out of time as the end of availability of these kits has got to be coming to an end soon.

Unless someone designs a PS3 kit mod, the PS3 kits will be useless for those who want to upgrade older engines as they have completely different drawbars/tethers/hookups.

I'd think that MTH would think of that if they produce the PS3 upgrade kit.  Maybe not, but if I were in the same business, I'd sure want it to work for a maximum of possibilities.

Hard to imagine MTH producing an upgrade kit, be it PS-2 or PS-3, without a tether cord. They may have two kits, one tether, another drawbar, since converting an engine to drawbar is not looking very easy.

Time will tell.

Rod

I would disregard the advice to get a spare TIU.  I have 2 TIUs, Rev G from the first production run, which were fixed by MTH within the 1st few months (there was a "beef-up" upgrade) and have performed flawlessly ever since.

Well, the PS2 upgrade kit includes a complete wiring harness, including the tether, so that seems logical.

I'm not going to run right out and get one, that's for sure.   I'll wait until I have a full layout that might benefit from two of them, then look into adding one.  First I have to add the original one when it comes back.

My head is spinning after reading the four pages of this thread so I went ahead and ordered a Lionel Legacy set this afternoon.  Will pick it up Saturday.  I probably need to play with both systems, even though DCS has performed just fine for me.  We hooked up the latest Rev L system at the office yesterday and it's working just fine.  Ran the GE Evolution Hybrid locomotive with it and had a ball!  I'm a real sucker for those chase lights (or whatever they are called). 

Allan

I had the same adverse spin dizzy and morbid curiosity about heavy duty diagnostics required for random glitches. Especially in the sending and receiving of rail carried sub-carrier signals like the old radio phones on the PRR, which seems overly complicated, perhaps out of ignorance, but this thread seems to underscore what can happen, perhaps rarely, but still...

I am contemplating adding radio control plug and play to my outdoor G scale layout, as I am adding a yard and sidings. However I have been using a somewhat outdated but very reliable old Aristocraft radio control system, as a simple transformer control and I wonder why this was never adapted to O scale? 

In my experience, radio control or "wireless" seems to be the next step in train control for O gauge, or am I off base? Is there any such system planned or in use for O gauge?

Frankly, I still find it a tad disconcerting that gunrunnerjohn is having this much difficulty setting up his DCS system.  But, I can tell by his last couple posts he's not looking back.  Hooked on technology.  There is always something new and challenging around the next curve on the rails.  I know how it is.  Is this a blessing or a curse?  If it's not broke, why do we insist on fixing it?  You'll get it gunrunnerjohn.  I'm sure about that. 

Electroliner:  Lionel had such a system for O-gauge in the 1950's, but it was very expensive, only a limited number of items were produced, and it was soo taken of the market.  Each loco & car carried a receiver.

I imagine you may be referring to the Aristo/Crest Electronics "Train Engineer" system, which I also have used for my Large Scale trains for many years.  Very reliable and very simple--just the way I prefer things to be.  And it pre-dates both TMCC and DCS by a long time.  It lacks all the bells and whistles of the various features in the O gauge systems, but I don't use most of those features anyhow.

There seem to be a few wireless systems out there for G.  DCC based too.

It is interesting marketing if MTH goes to PS-3 upgrade kits.  The PS-2 kits covered the PS-1 engines that were not Command capable.  They now make PS-2 and PS-3 engines.  We all know the manufactures repeat their trains.  Why sell an upgrade kit when you are in the business of selling Trains.  I don't think you would see Lionel selling Legacy upgrade kits.  They want you to buy a new legacy engine.  I would think they would keep the PS-2 part support available, just like the PS-2 3V were made with 5V connectors.  I guess we will find out.  G