Now comes the F3 from 3rd Rail

Jonathan Peiffer

E-mail has been sent.  Thanks

Again notice the PRR OEM Numberboard/class light bezel that has yet to be done in o gauge correctly. NONE of the MTH and Lionel Scale PRR F3's have made them with the correct OEM Numberboard/classlight bezel. 

Apparently these are too pricey for Rich Trowbridge. He has not made any comments or requests for the Grand Trunk Western F3/F5 from 3rd Rail. 

Andrew

Note the straight "passenger" pilot on the PRR F3 in the photo.  With the exception of a handful of  initial order F3 and E7 A units, follow on orders by the PRR for F3, F7, FP7, E7, and E8  A units specified straight pilots equipped with coupler shrouds.  Coupler shrouds were removed in the 1955/6 time frame. With the many detail and lettering variations/modifications on PRR F units over the years, IMO the only way to achieve a reasonable degree of prototype accuracy is to first pick the batch being modeled, and then adjust the details to the time frame being modeled using dated photos.   Fortunately a wealth of information on PRR F units can be found in a lengthy 2 volume article in the PRRT&HS's The Keystone several years ago.

The GN Man posted:

Is it correct that the WP only had the passenger version F3's?  I will be in for a WP F3B unit to run with my FP7. 

Yes, you are correct.  WP bought A-B-B F3's for passenger service only. 

However, the Sacramento Northern, WP's former interurban subsidiary, bought three F3A's from the New York, Ontario & Western when the NYO&W went bankrupt in 1957.  One of those was transferred to WP and renumbered 801-D, a passenger unit.  The other pair of F3A's worked in freight service on Sacramento Northern, wearing WP colors and SN lettering.  SN, like other dieselized interurbans, was not a fast freight railroad.

Keystoned Ed posted:

Note the straight "passenger" pilot on the PRR F3 in the photo.  With the exception of a handful of  initial order F3 and E7 A units, follow on orders by the PRR for F3, F7, FP7, E7, and E8  A units specified straight pilots equipped with coupler shrouds.  Coupler shrouds were removed in the 1955/6 time frame. With the many detail and lettering variations/modifications on PRR F units over the years, IMO the only way to achieve a reasonable degree of prototype accuracy is to first pick the batch being modeled, and then adjust the details to the time frame being modeled using dated photos.   Fortunately a wealth of information on PRR F units can be found in a lengthy 2 volume article in the PRRT&HS's The Keystone several years ago.

All PRR F3's except 9518 and 9519 had the so called "passenger" straight pilots. 9518 and 9519 had "freight" style pilots. ALL PRR F3's had STREAMLINED number boards. Road numbers 9500 through 9505 had high fans. The only F's that I am aware of that came without coupler doors (shrouds if you like) were 9518 and 9519 which were (for a time) equipped with shop made coupler doors. 9518 and 9519 were ordered for pusher service on the CURVE. Other than those two engines, ALL PRR F's (3's and 7's) came from EMD with straight pilots and coupler doors. ALL F7's had the large 45 degree number boards.

HINT: ALL the info you need to know is in the 2 issues of the Keystone that Ed mentions above. Maybe you should contact the PRR T&HS

Simon

 Do 9500 thru 9505 AS BUILT in BRASS, and I'm IN! LOL

I'm a member of the PRRT&HS and have both Keystone issues relating to the F3 and F7.  Great organization and a great publication. 

Thanks to those who supplied photos of the various schemes so far!

Thanks Bigjohn for suggesting the SF freight livery.  I model PRR but I've liked the look of the SF freight F units since I was a kid in the late '60s, enough that I reserved a couple of these.

My Atlas Q  F3 was a lot of work, I sure Scott will bring you a fantastic rendition. 

Received an email from 3rd Rail stating they had details on their web page for the F3.  Checked it out and they are going to produce the Phase IV.  To me the Phase IV looks too much like the F7, so I'm going to pass on this one.  Nice looking engine, though.  Hope they do a Phase III (or earlier) in the future.

Interesting! All Powered units for the F3's. NO dummy units. I see on the website the PRR is being pictured with the 45 degree large number boards! Say it ain't so Otherwise I will have to withdraw my order.

Because the F3 phase IV is so close in looks to the F-7 (Farr Grills and shared details) it would be a natural to do and not require any new tooling.  But, for this reason, I don't think it will sell as well as the F-7's. 

BH

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Interesting! All Powered units for the F3's. NO dummy units. I see on the website the PRR is being pictured with the 45 degree large number boards! Say it ain't so Otherwise I will have to withdraw my order.

You are correct, ALL PRR F3's had the smaller streamlined number boards!

Simon

Again, no research has truly started on the F3s.  Phases are still to be determined along with a design matrix to see how to capture accurately the most amount of road names without compromising on prototype fidelity while meeting the design and construction budget.  We should have a better idea of the scope of the project sometime late November maybe?

For PRR, there will be the original number boards.  As you may recall from the E7 project, the DGLE as delivered E7s had the small number boards while the Tuscan versions had large number boards.  Granted they were not the offset number board actually used by PRR, but the Tucsan PA's will have the correct type of number board. 

As always, contributions to the data base of information are always welcome.  My email address is in my profile.

Originally from GG1 4877:

Granted they were not the offset number board actually used by PRR, but the Tucsan PA's will have the correct type
of number board.

That's Ok, Bill Davis of American Scale Models has the correct Offset Number board bugeye Marker light combo that can easily fix those E7's!

http://americanscalemodels.com/O?product_id=2163

Here are pics I pulled off Da Bay of an O scale Phase III PRR F3

I think I got this data from one of the Mainline Modeler magazines:

Phase I..January 1945 to June 1947 Same as a F2..small combination numberboards/class lights; 3 portholes and no filters in the middle side course; tall fans; chicken wire screening in three pieces on the upper side course.

Phase II..June 1947 to June 1948 large numberboards; tall fans/countersunk low fans optional; two portholes, center porthole eliminated and substituted with four horizontally slotted air filters between them; larger openings at the rear of the upper course; chicken wire screening covering the upper course and the entire area between the portholes in the middle course.

Phase III..June 1948 to February 1949 large numberboards; Countersunk fans with grill type openings;two portholes with four horizontally slotted air filters sets between them;chicken wire covering the entire upper course only.

Phase IV..August 1948 to February 1949 same as Phase III with a fabricated horizontal stainless steel grill covering the upper course; two portholes with four horizontally slotted air filters sets between them; These were equipped with F7 traction motors and are sometimes referred to as F5's.

Here's SAL 4027:

and SAL 4030:

Fans and filters are the most prominent differences I see.

William McClure's "Atlantic Coast Line In Color" book has a beautiful photo of purple F3A 344 (phase IV) on page 34.  On page 35 there's a color photo of F7A 393, I can't see any external differences between it and F3A 344, except maybe the horns and the color swap on the nose medallion.

Bob Delbridge posted:

I think I got this data from one of the Mainline Modeler magazines:

Phase IV..August 1948 to February 1949 same as Phase III with a fabricated horizontal stainless steel grill covering the upper course; two portholes with four horizontally slotted air filters sets between them; These were equipped with F7 traction motors and are sometimes referred to as F5's.

Bob, Per a couple of sources I have it looks like the first Phase IV engines still had the D17 traction motors when they came out in Aug '48. In Oct '48 they got the D27 motors and became the "F5".  I don't think there is any external difference between the Phase IV and F5.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

 

I really like the Phase II (early) engine.  Who made it?

645 posted:

CAPPilot posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Here are pics I pulled off Da Bay of an O scale Phase III PRR F3

645,

I apologize. I did not look closely at the unpainted F3 to see that it is really a Phase II.  Must be in the wrong box.  I thought the painted one was a different model.  The paint really shows the center panel chicken wire between the two portholes while it is harder to see on the unpainted model.  However, the high, flat-top radiator fans should have tipped me off.

Thanks Ron!!!

Here's a photo by Wiley Bryan of ACL purple F3A 324 and F3B 324B:

BEAUTIFUL!!!