O Scale vs O Gauge

This hits home with me as I made some of the same mistakes.  I started off with my grandfather's gear in 2002 which he called O27 and included O27 track and switches. My uncle's gear was always referred to as O Gauge as he had 31" curves and the old O22 switches. But, by 2002, I learned those two groups were really throwbacks to the postwar era and the new cleavage point was between Traditional (O27 and O Gauge) and Scale. In reality, they're all O Gauge based on the distance between the outer rails.

Even there, it gets dicey. Some Traditional line products are scale sized but not scale in detail

For Lionel, avoid anything that's labeled full scale or Standard O. I bought a few giant gondolas that I had to sell. Focus on the Traditional line in their catalogs.

For MTH, avoid their Premier line. Their Rugged Rails line is safe. In their Rail King line, most of the time you'll be safe, but understand the average Rail King item will likely be a bit larger than its Lionel counterpart.

For K-Line, most full 1:48 scale items are labeled as such. They had a line of rolling stock called Train19 that was smaller and a line of rolling stock called O Scale Classics you'll likely want to avoid.

Atlas' Industrial Rail is generally a safe bet for smaller items. There just aren't that many of them left.

I'm sure others will add to my comments.

It takes a little time learn the subtle and not so subtle nuances.  You will hear the words O gauge, toy, traditional, post war or semi scale to describe what most folks grew up with and are familiar with.  To make it even more fun some of those early offerings were very close to scale the F3s and Trainmaster FMs come to mind.   Scale is scale 1:48 but even there you have the nasty knuckle couplers, the evil third rail and on and on.

How big of a layout are you planning?  What are the minimum and maximum curves would you like to incorporate?

Thanks!  I’m actually interested in going with the larger cars (O Scale as I understand it) because I recently acquired a Legacy Loco.  And it is giant compared to my previous purchases.  Your advice is very helpful.  The O Scale offerings seem more obscure especially on the secondary market but the hunt is half the fun.

If your leaning towards the scale offerings... like big boys, challengers, GG1s, 18"-21" passengers etc., you probably want your minimum curve to be 072 and numbered turnouts.  Most engines & rolling  stock will have the 'minimum' recommended curve listed on the packaging.  Take your time and look before you leap.  You may also want to download SCARM computer aided track design software... it's free to get started with.

look towards atlas o.it appears everything is true scale.mth premier is 1:48 as well.lionel you have toresearch.with lionel I have a mixed lot.scale and 027.DAKMAN productions has a great explanation on you tube.beware scale is great if you have a big layout.027 for smaller tables.I am sure somebody will explain this better than me.

@Da Moose posted:

Thanks!  I’m actually interested in going with the larger cars (O Scale as I understand it) because I recently acquired a Legacy Loco.  And it is giant compared to my previous purchases.  Your advice is very helpful.  The O Scale offerings seem more obscure especially on the secondary market but the hunt is half the fun.

If you go forward with 1:48 O scale, the challenges aren't as bad. In non/semi-scale, products are selectively compressed so there is no precise scale. With true 1:48 scale, you know that 1" in the model = 4' of the real McCoy.  So, if you bought a scale item that looks too big with your other scale items, that's how they'd appear in the real world. Similarly, there are some scale engines that are small enough (in model and real worlds) to look fine on a semi-scale layout.  For example, my brother-in-law has scale 0-6-0, 4-6-0, and 2-8-0 steam engines, and he doesn't run all his larger scale rolling stock with them. But, that may have been how it was in the real world, especially if you're trying to mix large, modern era scale rolling stock with early 20th century steam.

Depending who is defining it, there is a difference between "scale" and scale sized.

First off, O gauge is define as using track that is 1.25" between outer rails, whether it is 3 rail or 2 rail (Proto48 is different and will not run on O gauge track)

Scale:  True 1:48, two rail track, scale sized flanges on wheels, scale sized couplers (Kadee or similar).

3 rail scale sized: 1:48 or very close, three rail track, large flanges on wheels for tinplate track, Lionel oversized couplers.

         Note:  There is a subset called Three Rail Scale (3RS).  They use scale sized couplers (Kadee or similar) but run on 3 rail track.

If Da Moose is wanting 3 rail scale sized cars, best bets are:

-Lionel:  Standard O or scale in description.  Standard O is an old term and are less detailed.

              (Traditional, O-31, O-27, semi-scale all refer to post war sized trains)

-MTH:  Premier or RailKing Scale.  RailKing scale are reissues of older, less detailed Premier models.

            (RailKing and Rugged Rails are mostly post war sized)

-Atlas: Master Line or Premier.  The Premier line is their recent MTH acquisitions.

            (Industrial Rail is post war sized items)

-Williams:  Look for scale on the box/description.  Not always scale sized, but close.

            (Williams Classics are post war sized)

-Weaver:  All scale

-GGD: All scale

-Forgot about K-Line.  Thanks Rattler21!  It’s O scale sized items have O SCALE on the boxes.

Thanks very much!  

From what I have been led to believe, O gauge is anything regardless of scale or proportions that runs on Lionel/O gauge three rail track and O scale is 1:48 scale two rail trains. A slightly crotchety fellow at a train show down in Foley AL was kind enough to point that out a few years back.

Adding on to Ron's comments.  Weaver, GGD and 3rd Rail/Sunset and some K-Line are scale and available in three rail items.  Two rail scale is a different story.  John

And Ron missed out Atlas Trainman, scale cars maybe without all the details or pushing their luck on paint schemes, but ... well my D&H U23Bs are missing the bit of roofline flaring between the long hood and the radiator section, but I usually recover by the time one of their nice cabooses goes past (D&H or NJ).

A while back I heard Lionel had a new tool-maker who did great Pullman-Standard cars and a lot of their stock compares very well with prototype pics (try rrpicturearchives.net, Lionel do the best, mass-produced PS-1 40 ft boxcar).  My example from MTH is the Airslide Hopper, the tooling for which Atlas have acquired recently, so I ought to look for another example.

Rule 1: don't get hypnotised by the Lionel logo ... oops too late??

Jason

@Da Moose posted:

I recently acquired an O Scale Lionel Box Car from a club.  It’s beautiful but when combined with my other O Gauge  rolling stock it looks out of place (too big).  Is there a reliable method to determine which I am buying in future purchases either new from Lionel or on the secondary market?  Seems impossible to determine.

Moose,

  When buying trains from sources other than a hobby store what I usually do is have a tape measure handy. For scale cars the following is what they should measure:

                                40 Ft - 10 inches

                                50 Ft - 12 1/2 inches

                                60 Ft - 15 inches

                                70 Ft - 17 1/2 inches

                                80 Ft - 20 inches

For example if a car is advertised as a 40 Ft boxcar and measures under 10 inches it is not scale. Locomotives are harder to tell if you do not know the length of the full sized engine but you can google say PRR K4 the length is 83 ft 6 in which works out to 20.9 inches in O scale. If the engine your buying is less it is not scale. Do your homework before going shopping at a show or a club. If you are a traditional size guy if the item is less than what is the 1/48 measure your safe that it is traditional. If your a scale guy and the item your looking at does not measure up then don’t buy it. All the other suggestions are good and useful tools to use but the measuring tape is a sure way of telling scale from non scale (traditional) items.

JohnB