One Pennsylvania Locomotive I've Never Seen In Three Rail

Don,

Check the 3rd Rail website; they are taking reservations on this exact engine now!

Chuck

Actually none of these have ever been made in O scale at all!  

Looks like you could make one starting with a Alco FA-1......

There are two differnt locos.    The one in the 4th photo has a different cab shape and 3 axle trucks.    Looks like different vents or air intakes on the sides of the body too.    Which one is the E2B, I assume they both can't be the same class.

I just checked the Sunset 3rd Rail website, and they are taking reservations for both 2 and 3 rail pairs of the E2Bs which appear to be the ones in the first 3 photos that match their photo.

Ask and Ye shall receive.    You got your loco in 3 rail as requested, just put in  your reservations.       Scott needs about 150 reservations I think to make the model.

prrjim posted:

There are two differnt locos.    The one in the 4th photo has a different cab shape and 3 axle trucks.    Looks like different vents or air intakes on the sides of the body too.    Which one is the E2B, I assume they both can't be the same class.

E2b-- Two two axle trucks, made by GE (The one Scott is making, and shown above in all but the last photo of Don's post)

              four E2b's were sold to Pennsy, a pair of E2b's were also sold to GN.  Pennsy later bought the GN pair

             These ran on the Pennsy until the mid sixties,  were often MU'd with P5as.  Also ran seperately

              Note the distinctive 48" wheels

E3b-- Three two axle trucks, made by Baldwin/ Westinghouse

            Two were sold to the Pennsy.

            They did not last long.  Could not be MU'd with anything else

E2c-- Two three axle trucks, made by Baldwin/ Westinghouse  (Shown in the last photo of Don's post)

            Two were sold to the Pennsy.

            They did not last long.  Could not be MU'd with anything else

scale rail posted:

I know Pennsy only had three or four sets of these but they are an interesting loco. The General Electric E2b was an electric motor that was only made for the Pennsylvania Railroad.

Hmm... it THAT what Lionel was thinking of when they decided to put the Pennsy colors on this?

http://www.tandem-associates.c...ns_2352_electric.htm

Compressed even more than usual - two units in one!

Except that PA unit #2352 is an EP-5, which did exist, but never in Pennsy paint - only New Haven had them.  Only 10 were built (by GE) and were the first to rectify the overhead AC to DC for their traction motors...  A few wound up in Penn Central paint. 

richs09 posted:

Except that PA unit #2352 is an EP-5, which did exist, but never in Pennsy paint - only New Haven had them.

Yes, that's true. But I always wondered what possessed Lionel to think that the PRR had something that resembled an EP-5 in even the most general way. Milwaukee and Great Northern both had double-ended electrics, which I assume Lionel was looking at (through very foggy spectacles, granted) when they painted the EP-5 in those railroads' colors. Not sure what their inspiration for the Pennsy version was. 

nickaix posted:

richs09 posted:

Except that PA unit #2352 is an EP-5, which did exist, but never in Pennsy paint - only New Haven had them.

Yes, that's true. But I always wondered what possessed Lionel to think that the PRR had something that resembled an EP-5 in even the most general way. Milwaukee and Great Northern both had double-ended electrics, which I assume Lionel was looking at (through very foggy spectacles, granted) when they painted the EP-5 in those railroads' colors. Not sure what their inspiration for the Pennsy version was. 

Sales. Anything with Pennsy on it..

I started to 'ride my horse' in my earlier post regarding the EP-5 - but restrained myself.  Since you've poked at it..., here's a short version of that rant:

If you google EP-5, you will find a bunch of photos, many of which are toy train versions at various scales of model RRs and indeed, not only will you see the legitimate NH painted versions, but Great Northern and Milwaukee Road and even in one case, Amtrak, in addition to Pennsy.  You will also see that some of them are labeled "Little Joe", which is where I think some of the deliberate (?) confusion starts.  The EP-5 is NOT a Little Joe (Stalin), of course.  The LJ was built originally for the Soviet Union but when the cold war started, the deal was cancelled and GE had 20 (of which 14 were completed and built for the 5 ft. Soviet gauge) to try to get rid of.  12 went to Milwaukee Road, 3 to Chicago, South Shore and South Bend and 5 to Brazil.  Other than being double ended, its hard to see how the EP-5 and the EP/EF-4 (Milwaukee's designation) could be confused.  Vastly different carbody - the EP/EF-4 looks like it came out of a Baldwin design shop and had massive trucks in a 2-D+D-2 arrangement that pivoted with the whole frame - the EP-5 "jet" was a C+C arrangement, so six pairs of driven wheels vs eight for the Little Joe.  The LJ took DC straight off the 'wire' while the EP-5 was fed by 11 kV AC and used mercury ignitron rectifiers to convert to DC.  If you squint a little, the front of the EP-5 looks a bit like an Alco PA/FA.

So I dunno why Lionel - or the others - offer the EP-5 in anything other than NH colors.  Rex may be right - sales and marketing.  But seems to me one doesn't have to be even a once-in-a-while rivet counter to call BS on the wrong railroad and especially any confusion with the EP/EF-4 Little Joe -- a little like selling a NYC J3 hudson as a UP FEF...

- Rich

ps  apparently one of the EP-5's got as far as being part of Conrail's loco inventory, but it never got repainted/relettered.

It's instructive to note that the old A.C. Gilbert Co. released the American Flyer EP5 only in New Haven, with simulated 6 wheel trucks:

However, Gilbert offered no other ID other than "a scale model of GE's famous locomotive."  And mostly offered it in freight sets.  While the EP5 did occasionally pull some of New Haven's piggy-back trains, it's main service was for passenger trains.

Lionel/Flyer however, offered the Flyer EP5 in New Haven, Milwaukee Road and Great Northern.  Frankly, the EP5 looks good in all three schemes.

As far as calling the EP5 a "Little Joe," Lionel-MPC never let accuracy get in the way of marketing acumen.

Rusty

My "Little Joe's" are anything but little. Big, heavy and great runners. Don