Operate Lionel's Smoke Fluid Loader through DCS Remote....

Update.....I checked to see if I could turn the light pole light on and off by using Aux 8 and 9. That does work.

I also realized I needed to press and HOLD the Brake side of the Brake/Boost rocker switch on the DCS Remote to work the pump. I do hear the pump "clicking" like a pumping action is occurring.

But how do I get the loader's arm to swing out over the track? 

I'm at a loss right now....

Junior,

But how do I get the loader's arm to swing out over the track? 

I have the original (TAS) Smoke Fluid Loader and use the remote's thumbwheel speed control to make the arm move. You may need to get to a relatively high setting (25 and up) to get it started. If so, you may consider using Quickset Speed.

I use the DIR button to change between out and back.

Hi Barry;

Thanks for the reply. I tried your suggestion and I still get no movement from the arm.

I tried jiggling the motor's armature back and forth a bit to see if may be it was stuck. But that didn't help. 

I've been successfully running TMCC engines through DCS on my layout for a while with very good success. I have the TMCC Command base' ground wire connected to the Common (black) on all my track blocks.

But.....I run all my accessories from a separate transformer that is grounded to the other transformers that power the trains. So technically, the accessory's transformer is not directly connected the TMCC Command base like all the other transformers are via the common connected to the track blocks.

Yet.....I can hear the pump working and can turn the post light on and off.

I'm wondering if I need to run a ground from the TMCC Command base to the accessories transformer's common?

Hi Barry.....

I think I just figured it out. I'm trying to wire and operate this accessory like I have all my other NON-TMCC (ie. old Lionel) accessories. But I need to operate this accessory as a TMCC engine....meaning I should wire this accessory to the track block its sitting next to. That way it would get the TMCC commands sent through that track block the other TMCC engines get.

Nope.....that wiring change didn't work either. I can reset the Accessory (aka Engine) ID, hear the pump work, turn the pole light on and off.....but the arm won't budge.

I know the block is working with TMCC 'cause I'm running a TMCC engine in that same block.

Dang.....😖

Junmior,

Did you try using the thumbwheel "speed" to move the boom, and the DIR button to select forward and backward? If you did, what happened?

Hi Barry;

Using the DCS Remote, I scrolled the thumbwheel from zero to 31. The arm did not move. I then pressed the Dir key; which reset the speed back to zero. At this point; nothing happened....no movement.

I scroll the thumbwheel from zero to 31 again and nothing moved. I then pressed the Dir key. Again the speed was set to zero and no movement of the arm occurred.

Included below is a link to a YouTube video I created that shows the testing I just did with the Smoke Loader (I created the YouTube vid because my video upload to this message kept erroring out. The file is only 21mb). The video shows me:

1. Turning the pole light On and Off via Aux+8 and Aux+9.

2. Activating the pump by pressing and holding the Brake key. I held the Brake key for 6 "pumps"; which you can hear.

3. Scrolling the thumbwheel up to 31 and pressing the Dir key. I did this twice.

https://youtu.be/OnbwFt6innI

Not sure what to do next.....

Junior,

Some questions:

• How do the instructions say to move the boom using a Cab-1 or Cab- 2?
• Is the device set up as a TMCC engine or a Legacy engine?
• Which Lionel command base do you have and how is it connected to the TIU? If you have a Legcy base and set up the engine as a Legacy engine, there's a small complication of which you should be aware.

The instruction booklet says "...can be operated with Legacy CAB-2, CAB-1L or TMCC CAB-1 remote". Weird wording to mention "remote". The booklet says the exact same thing in the Accessory Features section.

I'm running TMCC through Lionel's Trainmaster Command base...but I do not have the CAB-1 remote.

The loader is set up as a TMCC engine.

The instructions don't mention anything other than "Turn the red control knob clockwise to swing the loading arm 90 degrees". And then the instructions mention "After filling your locomotive, turn the red knob counter clockwise to return loading arm to its stored position".

Barry.....you're gonna love this! On a whim....I changed the SPD (Speed) setting to 128. After spinning through the speed some what....

....lo-and-behold....the arm moved!

For every increment in speed, the arm moves a tiny bit! OMG....this would take forever! It took 3 trips from  0-127 to move the arm half way. Yikes!

Junior,

Tap the REL soft key on the Engine Sreen and then turn the thumbwheel. Clockwise to come out and counter-clockwise to go back. That may clear up the issue.

Barry....you're BRILLIANT! And after your recommendation, I found that discussion in your "DCS Companion" (3rd Edition) on page on Page 127 under section "Considerations and Limitations of TMCC Control using the DCS Remote".

I tried the REL softkey setting this AM and yes the arm does move in either direction depending on the direction you scroll the thumbwheel. But....moving the arm is still painfully s-l-o-w. 😕 And it appears (from what I can see from testing), the SPD softkey has no affect when the remote is in REL mode (which you do touch on in the above section).

Not sure if this movement can be sped up? Or is this a limitation of DCS software? If you watch YouTube vids of the Loader....the arm moves much quicker and more seamlessly.

Following this threat closely as I too have the Lionel Fluid Loaded (same as yours). I have been hesitant to begin programming because of the problems you've encountered. Now, because of this thread, I will try!! Many thanks! And yes, Barry is Brilliant!

Hello Dr Joseph....just know (unless Barry pulls another rabbit out of his hat 😁)...moving the Loader's arm is really, R-E-A-L-L-Y slow. Several spins of the thumbwheel move the Loader's arm a small increment.

The actual setup is very easy.....just:

1. Physically place the accessory near track that has a TMCC signal.

2. Add power to the Loader.

3. In DCS, add the Loader like you would normally do to add a TMCC engine.

4. I believe the instructions recommend assigning the Loader a new TMCC ID number.

5. Select the Loader from your DCS engine list.

6. Test all the Loader's functions including moving the Loader's arm.

These steps are paraphrased....so make sure you read the instructions!

Hello, I've had no luck getting my fluid loader to work with DCS. It just pumps and you can turn light off and on. Boom doesn't swing. Works good with Lionel remote.

Hi GuyEH....

I feel your pain. I'm beginning to think DCS is pretty useless when it comes to operating TMCC accessories. In fact, I ended up getting a Cab-1 remote and the Loader arm works beautifully! I probably should've had a Cab-1 remote anyway.

I even emailed MTH about this but....not response...

Even if you primarily use the DCS remote for your TMCC stuff, a Lionel remote is always a good idea.

Yeah....learned that lesson GRJ. I was just disappointed in this one aspect of DCS' remote. It does everything else so well (in regard to TMCC). Guess my expectations were set too high.

Not sure why there would be such a difference (in this case) between the DCS' thumbwheel and Cab-1's "red" wheel.

Bottom line....don't try and save a few $$ like I tried to.....buy a Cab-1/Cab-1L/Legacy base and remote set and "call it a day".

Well, I have always preferred the operation of the big red knob over the little MTH thumbwheel. 

IMO, the thumbwheel is the Achilles Heel of the MTH remote.  Not only is it more difficult to use, but having physical contacts to encode the motion, it's also much more prone to failure.  I've lost count of the number of thumbwheels I've replaced, and I have only seen a couple Lionel remotes with an issue with the big red knob.  It's simply the difference between using cheap encoder wheels with physical copper contacts or optical encoders.  No need to try to explain why one is vastly more reliable than the other, it's obvious!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, I have always preferred the operation of the big red knob over the little MTH thumbwheel. 

IMO, the thumbwheel is the Achilles Heel of the MTH remote.  Not only is it more difficult to use, but having physical contacts to encode the motion, it's also much more prone to failure.  I've lost count of the number of thumbwheels I've replaced, and I have only seen a couple Lionel remotes with an issue with the big red knob.  It's simply the difference between using cheap encoder wheels with physical copper contacts or optical encoders.  No need to try to explain why one is vastly more reliable than the other, it's obvious!

wish some of our club members would understand this.

they spin that wheel so fast the system does not have time to react.

While I haven't used the current production Lionel Smoke Fluid Loader with the DCS Remote, I have used the earlier TAS Smoke Fluid Loader with the DCS Remote, with great success.

I programmed it as a TMCC engine and controlled the boom by using the DCS Remote's thumbwheel. However, I use the DCS feature QuickSet Speed to move the boom, and the DIR button to change direction. Soft Key S5 (REL), for the speed control forth loader, should be left unhighlighted, rather than highlighted for "REL" (relative addressing).

You may find that you need to set the speed step to a high number (25-30) to get the boom to move.

As I said, this worked perfectly for the original smoke fluid loader. However, I've never use it with the current production loader.

Hey Barry;

I will try using the DCS remote again using your suggestions and letcha know how it goes.

Thanks.....

You are all farther then me! All I get is the light flashing on and off and zero response from my MTH DCS remote? HELP!