Paint splatter removal on a postwar F3?

First I would ask my self, what kind of paint is it???,  No sense using a harsher remover than necessary, risking more damage.  Can you put up a pictures...

Marty

James, this is all going to depend on what kind of paint spatter it is, and how big of spots you have to work with....If its latex, the spots should stand up almost like a rivet head. Use warm, soapy water and keep the little boogers wet and carefully pick at them with your fingernail, constantly keeping them damp with the soapy water...try this on the inconspicuous ones first. If they are indeed latex, this will work, Ive done it before....DO NOT USE CHEMICALS!!! this is a time consuming process...but well wort the effort...the latex paint will not embed itself into the factory paint. do not rub the crap out of them either. You will wind up putting a sheen on the shells you will not be happy with...if you determine it is latex, even if it got into details like molded screen sides, after keeping the area damp with warm soapy water, these areas can be picked at to lift the latex out of where its stuck, the idea in those places is to use a tiny tiny pick or a straight pin, and only pick or puncture the red spots, as to not harm the factory finish....as you pick at it, do so ina manner as to pick out and away, as to lift the red spots off......hope that helps!...…………………Pat

Here’s a recent attempt from one of our active members on removing spatters from his Alco’s.  His solution seemed to work.   paint spatter removal  @RSJB18

Thanks for the mention Ted!

James- I used the bug and tar remover and it worked well. No residual effects on the plastic K-line shells or the lettering. My guess is that I was removing rattle can spray paint. It was too flat to be latex.

Good luck

Martin Derouin posted:

First I would ask my self, what kind of paint is it???,  No sense using a harsher remover than necessary, risking more damage.  Can you put up a pictures...

Marty

 

Martin Derouin posted:

First I would ask my self, what kind of paint is it???,  No sense using a harsher remover than necessary, risking more damage.  Can you put up a pictures...

Marty

 

Hi Marty. I don’t have pics. Didn’t buy it yet. Not sure what type of paint it is either. Looked like latex judging by the shine but I really don’t know 

RSJB18 posted:

Thanks for the mention Ted!

James- I used the bug and tar remover and it worked well. No residual effects on the plastic K-line shells or the lettering. My guess is that I was removing rattle can spray paint. It was too flat to be latex.

Good luck

Thanks for feedback and pics. What is the name of the remover you used? I’d be afraid to use any harsh chemicals on a painted postwar shell this old. Yours looks like it came out really nice. It didn’t discolor the red anywhere? Also it looks as if your alco was molded red...the 2344 was a painted black mold. See my hesitation? 

harmonyards posted:

James, this is all going to depend on what kind of paint spatter it is, and how big of spots you have to work with....If its latex, the spots should stand up almost like a rivet head. Use warm, soapy water and keep the little boogers wet and carefully pick at them with your fingernail, constantly keeping them damp with the soapy water...try this on the inconspicuous ones first. If they are indeed latex, this will work, Ive done it before....DO NOT USE CHEMICALS!!! this is a time consuming process...but well wort the effort...the latex paint will not embed itself into the factory paint. do not rub the crap out of them either. You will wind up putting a sheen on the shells you will not be happy with...if you determine it is latex, even if it got into details like molded screen sides, after keeping the area damp with warm soapy water, these areas can be picked at to lift the latex out of where its stuck, the idea in those places is to use a tiny tiny pick or a straight pin, and only pick or puncture the red spots, as to not harm the factory finish....as you pick at it, do so ina manner as to pick out and away, as to lift the red spots off......hope that helps!...…………………Pat

Pat-

Thanks for the details on your removal process! While it seems time consuming I assume it’s worked for you many times? I didn’t buy these engines yet because the paint does worry me....there’s no return policy and while I’m not into “collector grade” postwar, I still want them to look nice. Not like a postwar murder victim. The red paint is significant in spots, and though I’m not entirely sure what kind of paint it is, I would hope it’s latex so it would peel off easily. I have about a week to decide. For the price I can get these at, I’m wondering if the extra work would be worth the effort. 

I have soaked latex paint off that had been on for years off in a bucket of soapy water. It is a slow process but left under water for a week or two it almost wipes off.  Depending on the color and type of the original paint auto brake fluid will dissolve latex paint however it will often remove aluminum/silver colored paints. They are the least durable paints that is why so many silver cars have such poor paint after a few years in the sun. This was especially true back before clear coated paints which shield the aluminum from the atmosphere and block UV.  Finely powered aluminum as used in paint pigment will react with most anything including air.  I have not looked on the store shelves for Krylon Dull Aluminum spray paint in years, as I bought a stock pile,but it is a dead ringer for the paint Lionel used on the AT&SF locos. I'm talking about the old solvent based paint not the new water based paints.  DON'T try and use it straight from the can you cannot control it with enough finesse for use on models.  I use a spray button with a straw and spray it directly into the airbrush jar. Another trick that I do is to slip a piece of 1/4" vinyl tubing over the straw and tape it in place this takes a lot of pressure off the stream coming from the straw so that it does not bounce off the bottom of the bottle and come back in your face. I mask off the red paint using vinyl electrical tape because you can remove it without lifting the old paint and it forms to curves very well. Something you may be able to do is spray over the lettering and use a tech pin with water proof black ink to re-letter them.  I don't know about every body shell ever made in silver AT&SF livery but the old 2343 shells had heat stamped lettering that leaves a ridge around each letter and a valley that is easy to fill with black ink in a tech pen. Silk screened or Tampo painted graphics do not leave this ridge in the plastic so this does not apply to locos with modern graphics.   j

JohnActon posted:

I have soaked latex paint off that had been on for years off in a bucket of soapy water. It is a slow process but left under water for a week or two it almost wipes off.  Depending on the color and type of the original paint auto brake fluid will dissolve latex paint however it will often remove aluminum/silver colored paints. They are the least durable paints that is why so many silver cars have such poor paint after a few years in the sun. This was especially true back before clear coated paints which shield the aluminum from the atmosphere and block UV.  Finely powered aluminum as used in paint pigment will react with most anything including air.  I have not looked on the store shelves for Krylon Dull Aluminum spray paint in years, as I bought a stock pile,but it is a dead ringer for the paint Lionel used on the AT&SF locos. I'm talking about the old solvent based paint not the new water based paints.  DON'T try and use it straight from the can you cannot control it with enough finesse for use on models.  I use a spray button with a straw and spray it directly into the airbrush jar. Another trick that I do is to slip a piece of 1/4" vinyl tubing over the straw and tape it in place this takes a lot of pressure off the stream coming from the straw so that it does not bounce off the bottom of the bottle and come back in your face. I mask off the red paint using vinyl electrical tape because you can remove it without lifting the old paint and it forms to curves very well. Something you may be able to do is spray over the lettering and use a tech pin with water proof black ink to re-letter them.  I don't know about every body shell ever made in silver AT&SF livery but the old 2343 shells had heat stamped lettering that leaves a ridge around each letter and a valley that is easy to fill with black ink in a tech pen. Silk screened or Tampo painted graphics do not leave this ridge in the plastic so this does not apply to locos with modern graphics.   j

Thanks for the reply! The silver paint has given me fits to clean on a few 6464 boxcars, so I’ve learned not to mess with it beyond a dry soft cloth. The engines I want to buy and have asked about aren’t silver; the 2344 NYC was a dark flat gray which I’m equally worried about taking the coloring right off the shell. The decals are in great shape too so I’m afraid soaking it may harm them and cause a new hurdle. All the info is appreciated here though!

James B posted:

harmonyards posted:

James, this is all going to depend on what kind of paint spatter it is, and how big of spots you have to work with....If its latex, the spots should stand up almost like a rivet head. Use warm, soapy water and keep the little boogers wet and carefully pick at them with your fingernail, constantly keeping them damp with the soapy water...try this on the inconspicuous ones first. If they are indeed latex, this will work, Ive done it before....DO NOT USE CHEMICALS!!! this is a time consuming process...but well wort the effort...the latex paint will not embed itself into the factory paint. do not rub the crap out of them either. You will wind up putting a sheen on the shells you will not be happy with...if you determine it is latex, even if it got into details like molded screen sides, after keeping the area damp with warm soapy water, these areas can be picked at to lift the latex out of where its stuck, the idea in those places is to use a tiny tiny pick or a straight pin, and only pick or puncture the red spots, as to not harm the factory finish....as you pick at it, do so ina manner as to pick out and away, as to lift the red spots off......hope that helps!...…………………Pat

Pat-

Thanks for the details on your removal process! While it seems time consuming I assume it’s worked for you many times? I didn’t buy these engines yet because the paint does worry me....there’s no return policy and while I’m not into “collector grade” postwar, I still want them to look nice. Not like a postwar murder victim. The red paint is significant in spots, and though I’m not entirely sure what kind of paint it is, I would hope it’s latex so it would peel off easily. I have about a week to decide. For the price I can get these at, I’m wondering if the extra work would be worth the effort. 

I saved a pair of rare 2373's that were spattered with white latex, as everyone has mentioned, first thing is to decide what your working with....if you decide to buy them, and you can figure out what material your up against, then you can execute a plan of action....if it turns out to be enamel, then give RSJB's suggestion a try, those Pennsy alcos he did seem to be the save of the century for enamel spatter....Id probably would have puked if it was rattle can spatter....but he did an awesome job on those units....try a small inconspicuous place first....let us know how it goes....or if you buy them, post a close up of the little red devils, and we'll see what your up against......Pat

harmonyards posted:

James B posted:

harmonyards posted:

James, this is all going to depend on what kind of paint spatter it is, and how big of spots you have to work with....If its latex, the spots should stand up almost like a rivet head. Use warm, soapy water and keep the little boogers wet and carefully pick at them with your fingernail, constantly keeping them damp with the soapy water...try this on the inconspicuous ones first. If they are indeed latex, this will work, Ive done it before....DO NOT USE CHEMICALS!!! this is a time consuming process...but well wort the effort...the latex paint will not embed itself into the factory paint. do not rub the crap out of them either. You will wind up putting a sheen on the shells you will not be happy with...if you determine it is latex, even if it got into details like molded screen sides, after keeping the area damp with warm soapy water, these areas can be picked at to lift the latex out of where its stuck, the idea in those places is to use a tiny tiny pick or a straight pin, and only pick or puncture the red spots, as to not harm the factory finish....as you pick at it, do so ina manner as to pick out and away, as to lift the red spots off......hope that helps!...…………………Pat

Pat-

Thanks for the details on your removal process! While it seems time consuming I assume it’s worked for you many times? I didn’t buy these engines yet because the paint does worry me....there’s no return policy and while I’m not into “collector grade” postwar, I still want them to look nice. Not like a postwar murder victim. The red paint is significant in spots, and though I’m not entirely sure what kind of paint it is, I would hope it’s latex so it would peel off easily. I have about a week to decide. For the price I can get these at, I’m wondering if the extra work would be worth the effort. 

I saved a pair of rare 2373's that were spattered with white latex, as everyone has mentioned, first thing is to decide what your working with....if you decide to buy them, and you can figure out what material your up against, then you can execute a plan of action....if it turns out to be enamel, then give RSJB's suggestion a try, those Pennsy alcos he did seem to be the save of the century for enamel spatter....Id probably would have puked if it was rattle can spatter....but he did an awesome job on those units....try a small inconspicuous place first....let us know how it goes....or if you buy them, post a close up of the little red devils, and we'll see what your up against......Pat

I should have taken a few pics to post today. If I do buy them, that’s the first thing I’m doing! I’ll get some closeups and see what everyone thinks. My first assumption upon inspection today was latex; I’ve painted enough walls to know what latex splatter dries like; I’m hoping that’s what it is. Those ALCO’s were incredible. If I could save these engines it would be somewhat miraculous. 

one more thing to note if you attempt this yourself, and I had to be super careful with those 2373 CP F3's ….be mindful of original installed water slide decals.....if you lift one of them off, you sure can replace them, but you will taste puke when it happens......steer clear of them at all costs if your trying to retain 100% originality....Pat

harmonyards posted:

one more thing to note if you attempt this yourself, and I had to be super careful with those 2373 CP F3's ….be mindful of original installed water slide decals.....if you lift one of them off, you sure can replace them, but you will taste puke when it happens......steer clear of them at all costs if your trying to retain 100% originality....Pat

Of course the nose decals are original and the dummy A unit is cracked so if it gets wet I’m sure I’ll be stuck putting some bright white, repro decal on ):

i changed nose decals to an exact replica on my 2032’s and it still isn’t the same...

James B posted:

harmonyards posted:

one more thing to note if you attempt this yourself, and I had to be super careful with those 2373 CP F3's ….be mindful of original installed water slide decals.....if you lift one of them off, you sure can replace them, but you will taste puke when it happens......steer clear of them at all costs if your trying to retain 100% originality....Pat

Of course the nose decals are original and the dummy A unit is cracked so if it gets wet I’m sure I’ll be stuck putting some bright white, repro decal on ):

i changed nose decals to an exact replica on my 2032’s and it still isn’t the same...

well, hopefully this will turn out to be latex, and the repair process (although lengthy) will be somewhat simplified......what I did to keep water off the decals is worked the shells in whatever direction it took to make water run away from the decals, constantly turning the shells to get my best line of attack. I used warm soapy water (just a few drops of Dawn) and ALOT of Q-tips...working one dot at a time....took 4 nights to clean them up....not so much as a scratch, or a ruined decal...…Pat

harmonyards posted:

James, this is all going to depend on what kind of paint spatter it is, and how big of spots you have to work with....If its latex, the spots should stand up almost like a rivet head. Use warm, soapy water and keep the little boogers wet and carefully pick at them with your fingernail, constantly keeping them damp with the soapy water...try this on the inconspicuous ones first. If they are indeed latex, this will work, Ive done it before....DO NOT USE CHEMICALS!!! this is a time consuming process...but well wort the effort...the latex paint will not embed itself into the factory paint. do not rub the crap out of them either. You will wind up putting a sheen on the shells you will not be happy with...if you determine it is latex, even if it got into details like molded screen sides, after keeping the area damp with warm soapy water, these areas can be picked at to lift the latex out of where its stuck, the idea in those places is to use a tiny tiny pick or a straight pin, and only pick or puncture the red spots, as to not harm the factory finish....as you pick at it, do so ina manner as to pick out and away, as to lift the red spots off......hope that helps!...…………………Pat

Pat, though I'm inexperienced at removing paint splatters, what you say makes perfect sense to me. I would add, that I've been told by my train doctor, that the safest soap to use is Ivory Soap, for the soapy water you recommend. Maybe you know of other soaps that as re good to use. 

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

harmonyards posted:

James, this is all going to depend on what kind of paint spatter it is, and how big of spots you have to work with....If its latex, the spots should stand up almost like a rivet head. Use warm, soapy water and keep the little boogers wet and carefully pick at them with your fingernail, constantly keeping them damp with the soapy water...try this on the inconspicuous ones first. If they are indeed latex, this will work, Ive done it before....DO NOT USE CHEMICALS!!! this is a time consuming process...but well wort the effort...the latex paint will not embed itself into the factory paint. do not rub the crap out of them either. You will wind up putting a sheen on the shells you will not be happy with...if you determine it is latex, even if it got into details like molded screen sides, after keeping the area damp with warm soapy water, these areas can be picked at to lift the latex out of where its stuck, the idea in those places is to use a tiny tiny pick or a straight pin, and only pick or puncture the red spots, as to not harm the factory finish....as you pick at it, do so ina manner as to pick out and away, as to lift the red spots off......hope that helps!...…………………Pat

Pat, though I'm inexperienced at removing paint splatters, what you say makes perfect sense to me. I would add, that I've been told by my train doctor, that the safest soap to use is Ivory Soap, for the soapy water you recommend. Maybe you know of other soaps that as re good to use. 

Ive always had Dawn dish soap, never tried Ivory or any other brand Arnold, I use it for everything requiring soapy water, the key for me is, not using too much....in the case of the OP's issue, Id start with just a few tiny drops in a coffee cup. that's what I did in the case of the CP F3's......no issues.....in affect, all Im really using the soap for is to break the surface tension of the water, and provide a little lubricant for the Q-tip to work on the specific spot....not doing a scrub-a-dub-dub job....…………..Pat

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

what happens if he works on them on Tuesday Arnold? does he have to wait till the following week to post up pics?...…….Just kidding buddy!!….but I had too!!!.....Pat

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

I will most definitely post pictures here if I get these engines and attempt the paint removal. Not gonna lie, it scares the living crap out of me to do this! When I bought my 2032 Erie ALCO AA in June, the horn wasn’t working. I opened it up successfully without breaking a single tab, cleaned it, sanded the entire thing clean, and was able to close it back up and adjusted the sound, so now I have a nice circa 1952-53 Erie with an original horn running around my layout. Point is, I broke a sweat like i ran a marathon doing that! These F3’s aren’t child’s play as we know. I’d hate to screw up a nearly 80 year old gem...

harmonyards posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

what happens if he works on them on Tuesday Arnold? does he have to wait till the following week to post up pics?...…….Just kidding buddy!!….but I had too!!!.....Pat

Poetic License applies to everything I say on this Forum. LOL

harmonyards posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

what happens if he works on them on Tuesday Arnold? does he have to wait till the following week to post up pics?...…….Just kidding buddy!!….but I had too!!!.....Pat

And also, I have to say, I’ve posted on here a few times but this response was tremendous so thanks to everyone for your advice and knowledge. I know my way around the postwar era, but the repairs and restorations are new to me and it’s scary!

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

harmonyards posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

what happens if he works on them on Tuesday Arnold? does he have to wait till the following week to post up pics?...…….Just kidding buddy!!….but I had too!!!.....Pat

Poetic License applies to everything I say on this Forum. LOL

It was there buddy, so I ran with that ball!...…..did I at least get a chuckle from ya?...……………..Pat

James B posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

I will most definitely post pictures here if I get these engines and attempt the paint removal. Not gonna lie, it scares the living crap out of me to do this! When I bought my 2032 Erie ALCO AA in June, the horn wasn’t working. I opened it up successfully without breaking a single tab, cleaned it, sanded the entire thing clean, and was able to close it back up and adjusted the sound, so now I have a nice circa 1952-53 Erie with an original horn running around my layout. Point is, I broke a sweat like i ran a marathon doing that! These F3’s aren’t child’s play as we know. I’d hate to screw up a nearly 80 year old gem...

You could consider experimenting before doing the job on these gems.

Assuming you get these engines and determine the kind of paint on them, then you can take a junker, splatter the same kind of paint on them, and try one or more of the paint removal techniques mentioned above and see what works best. Then, take a stab with your newly acquired gems.

The other option, if you absolutely love these engines, is to pay an expert to do the job.

James B posted:

harmonyards posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, if you attempt this restoration, take before and after pictures like we said under the topic: Restoration Monday. Then, you can share the photos and comments regarding the restoration on the Forum.

 

what happens if he works on them on Tuesday Arnold? does he have to wait till the following week to post up pics?...…….Just kidding buddy!!….but I had too!!!.....Pat

And also, I have to say, I’ve posted on here a few times but this response was tremendous so thanks to everyone for your advice and knowledge. I know my way around the postwar era, but the repairs and restorations are new to me and it’s scary!

don't be scared James....its suppose to be fun and relaxing.....I enjoyed cleaning up those CP's......go slow, be methodical, and don't rush into anything......slow and steady pace wins the race!...…..I get a new mechanic every now and then at my shop, and you can see they as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.....first thing I tell them, …..slow down a second, think about every move your gonna make, and youll be fine....……………….Pat