Paradigm shift from Loops to Switching

Guilty here!  My new around the room layout will have two connected loops and a 3rd branch line on 3 of the 4 sides for this very reason!  The branch line will run through a small town, industrial area, all the way out to a logging operation.  Don't get me wrong, I love to watch long trains run in a loop but a few years ago I was bitten by the "prototypical" bug in that I got very interested in being able to operate a layout as seen in the real world (as much as possible).  I blame John Coy..lol.

-Greg

I renovated and expanded my layouts from time to time over the years  from complete non-switching layouts before finally settling on one with a combination of switching and traditional loop running.  I have three interlocking loops .   The the two outside loops with 072 curves were designed with two lengthy outside straightaways to facilitate the running of speedy passenger trains and long drag freights. The third interior loop which has 031 curves folds back onto the  second interior loop and acts as a passing siding.  I have two spur lines which branch off of the 031 loop.  The 031 interior passing siding and the two spurs act as my freight yard and allow for considerable freight operations and a good deal of switching.  The passing siding and two spurs all have UCS remote control sections.  This is where I have the bulk of my accessories to include the automatic gateman, operating diesel shed, the culvert loader/unloader,  operating lumber mill, operating barrel loader, Operating Icing station, two operating Gantry Cranes, an oil depot facility and an operating oil derrick.   Believe me it can be a busy freight yard and can keep me occupied for some time.  When I tire of switching operations out come the crack passenger trains and long drag freights.  Love those long straightaways.  My layout is 8x20.  Below are a few photos of the freight yard.

Great thread, Dan. I totally relate to what you say about switching.

When I built my tubular track layout 25 years ago. I had switching in mind. Like you, Dan, I have 2 main lines for running loops, both of which are independently powered and interconnected. I also have sixteen 022 switches, which I love, and 8 independently powered sidings.

For many years my switching maneuvers were limited to where I had Postwar remote control track sections for uncoupling cars and unloading operating cars. I have 2 MTH Z4000 transformers for power. They are great transformers IMO. However, I didn't do much switching using them because I would forget which buttons to press to do it. Also, MTH would change things up, with different protocols of buttons to press for uncoupling, depending on whether it was a Proto 1 or a Proto 2 or 3 engine.

Mt layout has been a conventional one, with no sophisticated operating system like DCS.

Then, LionChief Plus (LC+) came along, and, like you, I really started getting into switching. LC+ was simple, very user friendly and fun using the front and rear electrocouplers on my LC+ locomotives for switching, using either the LC Universal Remote or the LC App.

Today was a momentous day for me. After reading about the different DCS systems last night on the Forum and on the Internet, I decided that the MTH DCS Remote Control Set would be best for me and my layout to run my Proto 2 and 3 engines, particularly for switching purposes. I called my LHS and they had 1 left, so I bought it.

My layout is an around the walls,  long and narrow one, so using the remote or the App, and not being tethered to the transformer,  for switching operations is much better IMO.

Hopefully, I will be able to hook up this DCS set to my layout in the next day or two. Arnold

I hear you Greg.   Your layout looks great.  I did not  give much thought to prototypical operation until I played with the electro couplers.  Then I thought WOW I can do some realistic switching.  Yea.

Looks good OKHIKER.  You can do quite a bit of switching with your layout.  Bravo.   

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Great thread, Dan. I totally relate to what you say about switching.

When I built my tubular track layout 25 years ago. I had switching in mind. Like you, Dan, I have 2 main lines for running loops, both of which are independently powered and interconnected. I also have sixteen 022 switches, which I love, and 8 independently powered sidings.

For many years my switching maneuvers were limited to where I had Postwar remote control track sections for uncoupling cars and unloading operating cars. I have 2 MTH Z4000 transformers for power. They are great transformers IMO. However, I didn't do much switching using them because I would forget which buttons to press to do it. Also, MTH would change things up, with different protocols of buttons to press for uncoupling, depending on whether it was a Proto 1 or a Proto 2 or 3 engine.

Mt layout has been a conventional one, with no sophisticated operating system like DCS.

Then, LionChief Plus (LC+) came along, and, like you, I really started getting into switching. LC+ was simple, very user friendly and fun using the front and rear electrocouplers on my LC+ locomotives for switching, using either the LC Universal Remote or the LC App.

Today was a momentous day for me. After reading about the different DCS systems last night on the Forum and on the Internet, I decided that the MTH DCS Remote Control Set would be best for me and my layout to run my Proto 2 and 3 engines, particularly for switching purposes. I called my LHS and they had 1 left, so I bought it.

My layout is an around the walls,  long and narrow one, so using the remote or the App, and not being tethered to the transformer,  for switching operations is much better IMO.

Hopefully, I will be able to hook up this DCS set to my layout in the next day or two. Arnold

Thanks Arnold, I figured I could not be the only guy that went to a switching operation.  My main level track has 27 switches(4 048, 1 072, and 22 036) and the lower level track has 6 switches with 1 more possible when I complete my track plan.  I use wall warts with DC power flowing all around with several switched power blocks and Lionchief remotes for control.  I have a J layout with a slanted T attached the the long leg of the J.  So walking around the layout with a remote control in hand is my best economical option.  Congrats on the DCS, I think it is great system to run trains.

My transition from loop running only to loop/switching happening very quickly, probably the day after I bought my first command control engine.  I did not have my own layout but ran trains with my brother (tinplate) and father-in-law (PW Lionel).  After I bought that TMCC engine, I wanted to add sidings to their layouts for switching.  Needless to say, that did not go over well.  I wasn't able to have my loop/switching layout until a decade later.  The current one I'm building is also a loop and switching layout.

My first layout after I was out on my own and married was in a rented house.    I was still working on a master's degree at night school and working days so there was not a lot of free time.    However, it was a loop with some sidings.    There was not plan for switching.   After 4 years, I graduated, got a promotion and a transfer, moved and bought ahouse.    I started a layout there with the same ideas.   But that quickly changed.   I read a few articles on operations and was invited to attend a session on a local HO layout where I became a regular operator.    I didn't change scales, but I modified my layout quickly to focus more on operations and never looked back.    And truth be known, hardly ever used the loop track anymore.

My current layout under construction is 100% point -to-point switching. I gave up loop running because you need some much extra space for a loop or a dog bone shape. The is basically a U shape with a couple of extensions coming out to the interior of the U. I use DCS and TMCC/LEGACY for control and I  like the idea of following my train to set turnouts and uncouple cars.

If I want to " chase cabooses ", I take my passenger and long freight trains to my local club.

Here's a look at my  layout under construction.

The 3 tracks in the distance go to the ore dock.

Current view of the blast furnace and high line trackage.

Main line (center track ) with leads on the right to spurs to the rolling mills. Track on left connects the main to the open hearth trackage heading off to the left  and the ore dock on the distant left.

Another view of the blast furnace tracks.  The main will sneak between the blast furnace and the high line and curve to the right to continue to a yet unbuilt 8 or 9 track yard.

I've been working on my layout for quite some time,  but since I'm now retired,  I can move forward at my own pace. I have to find some more current pictures and post them if you're interested.

I like both too Dan. Switching keeps the interest up and gives the trains "work" to do. Planning moves and not getting yourself blocked keeps the mind sharp. But sometimes it's nice to set the throttles and sit back and watch 'em run- with a nice single-malt in hand of course!

Bob

I like the idea of taking a car with a simulated load and moving it from point A to B. And then back to point A after it has been either emptied or loaded. Walking along side a train throwing turnouts and uncoupling cars is what real railroads do. Eventually I will use waybills and switch lists based on the number of spurs and their capacities.  I also watch for potential derailments before they happen instead of getting up and figuring out what happened after the breaker popped.

@third rail posted:

If I want to " chase cabooses ", I take my passenger and long freight trains to my local club.

I do not have a local club, so that is why I'm keeping a loop.  There is a HO club about two hours away that I have been thinking about joining, but 4 hours on the road doesn't appeal to me.

Great thread!

I have tried to achieve both the running of long trains and the switching of selected industries.  In that, I am blessed with a long train room that accommodates these wishes.  Below is the right half of the Panhandle with its two yards - Weirton Steel and Weirton Junction.

Traffic for Weirton Steel Yard:

• IN:  coal loads, iron ore, empty box cars and gondolas
• OUT:  empty coal hoppers, ore jennies, loaded box cars and gondolas, loaded slag pots
• INTRA-YARD:  switching of hot metal cars (torpedos), slab cars, ingot buggies
• Interchange:  On the diagram below, the green vertical line 6 squares from the right is a divider backdrop.  Car will pass through the backdrop on the siding to its right.  An operator will exchange empties for loads and vice-versa.

Traffic for Weirton Junction Yard (and the adjoining slag dump track for Standard Slag):

• IN:  loaded slag cars to be dumped at Standard Slag, gondolas & box cars bound for Weirton Steel
• OUT:  empty slag cars returning to Weirton Steel, loaded gondolas & box cars bound for end-customers
• INTRA-YARD:  storage of cabin cars, engine pocket

I haven't got it all worked out yet - that's just the rough thinking.

George

FYI, in experience for many years in the steel industry, the main running between the blast fce and the high line does not work very well in the real world.      First the cars on the high line dump their loads into bins that a self-propelled vehicle on rails uses to obtain stuff to load the blast fce.     The vehicle (I am avoiding using the word car to not confuse it with railcar) is more like the "larry" car at a coke oven  usually.    It obttains ore, coke, whatever, and transfers it to the skip bucket to take to the top and dump into the fce.    There is not much space there for a rail line on the lower level.    Second it would be very dirty and messy there with all the coke, ore, and stuff being unloaded and moved.    third it would be on "private" property, so the main line could only belong to the steel mill RR, not a common carrier.

Now if the modeling space requires it, go for it.    If not my opinion (and it is your RR) move it to the outside near the aisle.

Looks really good G3750.

Every time the Ophir and Oblivion gets recreated on the bedroom/living room/rec room floor I've always made it a point to have a lot of switching opportunities along with the action of looping.  In addition to enjoying it for myself I found if you take the time to briefly explain to visitors the whys and wherefores of real railroads you can run a switching op for them which they find every bit as interesting as the sight of running trains.

   One additional item which takes a bit of practice but which can really get the attention of the visitors is to have a peddler freight on the same loop as a crack passenger train (you will need a couple of passing sidings for this to work) and have it work local industries and then get out of the way (via a passing siding) of the passenger train.

  Below is a shot of the Ophir station area and part of the surrounding industrial district on one of the long ago incarnations.  That year the industrial sidings included the Lionel saw mill, Flyer barrel loader, Flyer saw mill, Lionel Icing station, Lionel coal loader, and Lionel Milk car.  The switching sequence involved having the peddler freight bring a loaded log car into the mill, dump the loads and then have the mill turn the load into lumber. Once the log car was unloaded, the switcher took the car back to the mainline, coupled up to an empty gondola, headed back into the siding and took on a load of barrels.  I had a passing siding close by so, depending on my reading of visitor interest I could just run a couple of moves with the switcher towing the log car and the gondola into the sidings and then backing out or, I could pull into the passing siding, shuffle the deck and have the switcher push the log and gondola into position, empty/fill and then back out and re-assemble the freight train.

  When I was just running the trains for myself I would run much more complex switching moves.

I used to just run loops until I joined a group that dies operations. Since then I have added an additional yard sidings and industries. I enjoy using switchlist for operating sessions as well.  I have also completed a major upgrade from tubular track in my original yard from tubular track to gargraves ross and ross turnouts. I am posting some before during and after construction

@prrjim posted:

FYI, in experience for many years in the steel industry, the main running between the blast fce and the high line does not work very well in the real world.      First the cars on the high line dump their loads into bins that a self-propelled vehicle on rails uses to obtain stuff to load the blast fce.     The vehicle (I am avoiding using the word car to not confuse it with railcar) is more like the "larry" car at a coke oven  usually.    It obttains ore, coke, whatever, and transfers it to the skip bucket to take to the top and dump into the fce.    There is not much space there for a rail line on the lower level.    Second it would be very dirty and messy there with all the coke, ore, and stuff being unloaded and moved.    third it would be on "private" property, so the main line could only belong to the steel mill RR, not a common carrier.

Now if the modeling space requires it, go for it.    If not my opinion (and it is your RR) move it to the outside near the aisle.

I understand that a main between the high line and the blast furnace is not a good idea on the prototype,  but I  needed it to go there because each leg of the U is only 3 feet wide. I need the space to put in an O 64 curve to the yard lead. 

Besides my "main" is all intra plant to connect to all the spur tracks. 

Bill,

Perhaps  you could go behind the High-line and furnace rather than between them.    Just a thought.   I understand the need to get the curve radius  you need.

George,

I like you  track plan and your concept.    A local guy has modeled that area in HO and has a gigantic bridge across the Ohio River.   

I would like to see the other half of the track plan.

@prrjim posted:

Bill,

Perhaps  you could go behind the High-line and furnace rather than between them.    Just a thought.   I understand the need to get the curve radius  you need.

The high line is on the back edge of the table,  can't really get a track behind it. Thanks for the input.

@G3750 posted:

Great thread!

I have tried to achieve both the running of long trains and the switching of selected industries.  In that, I am blessed with a long train room that accommodates these wishes.  Below is the right half of the Panhandle with its two yards - Weirton Steel and Weirton Junction.

Traffic for Weirton Steel Yard:

• IN:  coal loads, iron ore, empty box cars and gondolas
• OUT:  empty coal hoppers, ore jennies, loaded box cars and gondolas, loaded slag pots
• INTRA-YARD:  switching of hot metal cars (torpedos), slab cars, ingot buggies
• Interchange:  On the diagram below, the green vertical line 6 squares from the right is a divider backdrop.  Car will pass through the backdrop on the siding to its right.  An operator will exchange empties for loads and vice-versa.

Traffic for Weirton Junction Yard (and the adjoining slag dump track for Standard Slag):

• IN:  loaded slag cars to be dumped at Standard Slag, gondolas & box cars bound for Weirton Steel
• OUT:  empty slag cars returning to Weirton Steel, loaded gondolas & box cars bound for end-customers
• INTRA-YARD:  storage of cabin cars, engine pocket

I haven't got it all worked out yet - that's just the rough thinking.

George

George,

I like your layout!  Where were you about 3 years ago when I was stressing over my design! I could have used your  layout as a model for my build.  Great design.

Bill