PENN CENTRAL FANS: An O-Gauge Product Checklist and Discussion Thread

Here is some back story on why I am a fan of the Penn Central.

For me, it all began with the train that got me into electric railroading. I think I was three years old, and every time we visited at my uncle's house I would go to look at the Lionel MPC Penn Central GG1 on his bookshelf. He let me hold it a few times and the sheer weight of it made a lasting impression.

Then there was my grandfather. He worked for the entire lineage of Pennsylvania through Conrail and Amtrak as a track man. This is where my uncle got the train bug from, and I in turn got it from him. When I really got into trains my grandfather gave me all the railroadania he had saved, and most of it was from the Penn Central. There's the picture of him next to Penn Central Alco S-2 #9850, hence my screen name.

So, as you see, for me it's a combination of nostalgia and familial ties to the railroad. I actually hadn't known the Penn Central was a big mess until I was old enough to comprehend business, and that was many years after the events I described above occurred.

I saw the the picture of your new 628 that you posted; what did you pay for it?

I have 4 Master line Atlas O engines(all are only slightly used) I might be selling; one of them is a Canadian Pacific C630. I recently offered them to my dealer(all 4 of them) for $1000,00, in store credit; that's $250.00 per unit.

If my dealer takes them, I think he's getting a great deal.

BTW, contrary to some of the jabs you got, I think the PC look has a great no-nonsense, hardcore railroading look.

You're building a nice collection.

Rick

Too bad the other thread got locked.  It was a good collection of photos and equipment lists.  I don't have my PC FL9 Photo on this computer, but I do have these interesting photos of the prototype model PC FL9 from last December ....

I appreciate your thoughtful input Rick. I too always had an affinity for the stark utilitarian schemes. Very "no-nonsense, all business" as you point out.

For the 1339-2 Penn Central C-628 I had to pay $450, which is still a bit under MSRP. I'm not sure what more typical models go for; this one took me a year to find so as far as I know it's scarce on at least the internet.

The jabs are more directed at people than a railroad

Jonathan, very cool! Looks like the prototype PC unit was a tad glossier than the finished product.

Ben, you are correct that the actual human factor and management played a huge part in the downfall of the railroad. I also figure it would be appropriate for this thread to thank you again for taking the time to contact me and allow me the opportunity to own several of those Atlas O Penn Central black H21a hoppers. They've found a good home on my layout 

Answering a post by david1 before the original thread got locked:

Being so disorganized the Penn Central was all about odd trains and combinations one never really did see before. In fact, a lone A unit with only two or three coaches in tow was quite typical of pure PC passenger trains!

Hey Nick, Nice pix of that black ominous engine pulling those NYC coaches!! I wish Williams/bachmann would put out a set of PC 60' Madisons to go with their PC semi scale GG-1! Yes! More PC needed!!

Penn Central,  You asked about the caboose,

Understand it is green cab Numbers 23352

I did a internet ,search,  and you provided, a reply to an individual

on this cab number from Worthpoint, 

believe this is what is coming !!!  in response to your request

Thanks for that info Terry. Sounds like MTH simply included their regular production 20-91112 Penn Central N-8 Caboose with the set.

Now this is the type of post I like to see. What a great story and thank you for sharing your experiences with us!

Even though that's only a temporary setup, you're right, it did end up being a pretty good-looking train. What that FL-9 will ultimately pull is MTH's newly released 70' PC passenger cars, with a Weaver PRR B60 baggage car on the end for authenticity:

Here's a little known Penn Central livery variation as modeled by one of a group of F7 units purchased from the Rio Grande in 1970:

Bob

PC is a fun road due to all the combinations one could use through the merger! I was going to get a Williams PC GG1  and run a set of New Haven madisons behind them!

Nick,

The most important thing is that you enjoy yourself. Best of luck modeling the PC.

Andy

Penn Central regularly hosted foreign power on certain parts of its system as well. Southern Railway, Boston & Maine, CB&Q and SP/SSW were a few such roads.

Bob  

That's exactly right; I lived next to NYC/PC during 1955-1968 and remember seeing those trains.

Right behind our house were two main tracks and a local track (originally four tracks), plus a big signal bridge and full set of crossovers nearby ... that's where my lifelong interest in trains started. Plus an abandoned trolley roadbed at the back of our yard. This is what it looked like during a visit in 2011:

The third track is gone but the two tracks are still busy. The old signal bridge is still there.

Former NYC line at Rochester NY. How many cities have a railroad bridge over a waterfall?

I'm not sure if some of you are aware of it but there's a great organization dedicated to Penn Central and its history:

http://www.pcrrhs.org/ 

It's a well organized society and offers its membership good value.

Bob 

Bob - I have seen that Rio Grande unit before and think it is one of the more notable "oddballs". That train it's pulling looks like half a MoW train and half an automobile train.

As for the historical society, I was aware of its existence through some photos I found online but never did look into the benefits of its membership. Now that I read through it I think I just might join up 

After seeing all of the neat pictures of the various PC locomotives I decided to take a "Family Portrait" of my PC stable. 

Atlas O SW-8

Atlas O SD-35 (non-powered, ERR Mini Commander added)

MTH Alco RS-27 (Converted to TMCC)

Atlas O GP-9 (Custom painted)

MTH GP-40 (non-powered)

WBB F-3 AA (1508 non-powered with ERR Mini Commander & coil coupler, 1505 converted to TMCC with coil coupler)

I have space reserved for a Trainman U-23-B.  Maybe a GP-38 and a GP-30, also!

Didn't want the cabin cars to feel left out!

Tom

Good idea on the family portrait, I'll have to take one myself when I'm home on Thursday. I still envy that one of a kind transfer caboose of yours, and that SW-8 too! 

I saw and rode one of those PC "cabin cars" in 2011 at New York Museum of Transportation south of Rochester. I was interested to see that it was built at East Rochester, just a couple miles from where I grew up!

Despatch Shops was owned by NYC/PC.  They built the N7 bay window cabooses that PC inherited from NYC as well as the N6/N9 and N11 transfer cabooses.  They closed up in 1970 with their final orders being 400 class F50 coil cars and 75 N11e transfer cabooses.

Tom

Nice shots Jocko! Let's see what I can spot in your photos:

3rd Rail Fl-9

Atlas O SW-8 switchers

Atlas O GP-35

Atlas Trainman RSD-15

Atlas Trainman flatcar w/ pipe load

Lionel JLC Series GG1

Lionel set-breakup flatcar (tough to find!)

MTH Rectifiers

Weaver RSD-3s

Weaver Boxcar

About the only mystery items to me are those F-Units in the first photo. Who made those or are they custom?

Actually, one of the factors in PC downfall was that they had low volume coal reserves in low sulphur coal.  They became a deliverer of other railroads to customers on Penn Central but had little low sulphur coal originate on PC.

You can thank the Govt for that.  PC's demise was easily predicted.

Very Nice Room, Joe.  Very nice!!

If you trace all of my posts from the beginning (not recommended) you will read that I intended to model the Penn Central Railroad....

However, I got frustrated with the lack, locally, of Penn Central equipment.

I do have SOME though I have expanded to include PRR, NYC, and Chessie.

Penn Central's roster indeed offers some interesting modeling possibilities. Here's another variation in PC livery, the result of hastily renumbering of New Haven power necessitated by the January 1969 acquisition of the NH:

Williams offered the NH FA-1 decorated in this scheme so painting out the NH markings and substituting the PC herald and numbers will produce an interesting and accurate model.

Bob 

I remember seeing a photo of a GG1 hacked in half and being used as MoW equipment on the PC. Couldn't find it though.

Another visit to the Bay this morning and the last of Lionel's regular production scale Penn Central rolling stock is in the roster. That just leaves the set-breakup flatcar.

Appologize if this was mentioned before, but didn't a black Penn Central GG1 head up Robert Kenedy's funeral train?

Ok, just found this pic.  That's a cool looking consist.

Not sure if this applies.

We are going to relaunch our website in the next 1-3 months.

Membership is free and one of the features is that is that you can perform a search by railroad and get a list* of all of the products locos and cars that have been made.

* For catalogs that we have enterred into the system. It is a slow process

Here's the funeral train. Surely the most people to ever stop and care about a Penn Central consist at once:

Sounds like a great tool John! Hopefully our thread here and the checklist attached to my original post will help with the Penn Central section.

Hi, Nick.

Here are front and rear views of the G which was "kitbashed" into a snow melter/shop switcher. It was the former 4846:

It was assigned to Wilmington and scrapped during the 80s.

Bob

That would be the one Bob. A true PC "oddball" 

I hear tell two of them would've made one mighty fine locomotive!

Rusty

Wasn't one end of it being wrecked the reason behind salvaging the other end for MoW purposes? For some reason I just can't find the original article I read on PC 4846.

Correct. The 4846 was involved in a wreck and that's what was salvaged. The conversion was done in Pennsy days, I believe in 1967.

By the way Nick, I love the thread!

Bob 

There's a lot of fun to be had discussing the Penn Central even if you're not a fan. Volumes can be written about the goofier equipment like that half of a GG1 and Rio Grande unit alone 

I asked Rich if it was possible to merge the two threads as I've seen done on other forums but unfortunately that's not a feature of the Hoop.la software. A shame, we would've been at 4 pages now. The first two are still available for viewing however so let's keep it going!

At the risk of being offensive:  As a child when I outgrew Lionel with it's unrealistic 3 rails and 3 tie tracks I "graduated" to HO.  My first HO set was a Tyco with a Penn Central  F unit in Green.  I didn't care anything about how the railroad was run good or bad, I just thought it was cool.  I love Penn Central stuff as well as Pennsy before and Conrail after.  This is a cool thread and I liked the other one as well.  

For all intents and purposes it's still the same thread. Same title and original post and all, just that the original two pages we had before getting derailed need to be looked at in an archival manner. Not such a big deal really.

I've seen those Tyco green PC diesels and while it does look cool on a model, I think that might have been a tad obnoxious on the real thing  As far as I know the Penn Central never did paint any of its motive power in Jade Green.

Nick,

I'm so glad you revived this thread.  I can't believe how it has taken off.  With all of the activity, I hope the manufacturers will take notice and see that there is, indeed, a market for Penn Central equipment.  Here are some of my suggestions:

GP-7/9

GP-30

GP-35

GP-38

U-33-B

U-28-C

U-33-C

40' PS-1 boxcar

PS-5 gondola

coil car

and...and...and...

Tom

You are correct Tom but there do seem to be certain flops as well. A really good example is how 3rd Rail ended up having to cancel the Penn Central E-7, which really sounded like a hit for PC fans on paper. It was reported that only two pre-orders were received on it. Was this because of a lack of interest or did we do ourselves in with too many people planning to snag it cheaper from a dealer?

(I would have been the third pre-order had it not been for my first trip to York emptying my hobby fund at the time).

I was as much to blame as anybody for that one. Living along the North Jersey Coast Line, I saw the last two remaining PC E7s, the 4233 and 4244, every day in NY&LB commuter service. Unfortunately, I was preoccupied with family matters during the time frame the 3rd Rail model was announced and I failed to order it. Perhaps Mr. Mann would consider taking another shot at it. This time I promise I'll be ready.

Bob  

Bob, I forget if it was you or Jonathan that was talking about how some dealers will buy out a run of 3rd Rail locos. I wonder if we could get a dealer such as Beth at The Public Delivery Track on board for buying out a 3rd Rail run of PC E-7s?

And why would she buy an entire run of PC E-7's that she would be stuck with? Even if everyone that has posted they would buy it did, she would sell what 2 dozen? A losing proposition for a loser RR.

I believe Scott once said he would go ahead with production even at just 20 orders. I think with the right advertising that can be achieved here. After all the Penn Central FL-9 did get produced.

Then, there was this little dust up in Model Railroader 1970-71 about PC steam decals:

Rusty

Hi, Nick.

I think it was Jonathan who was discussing that. In fact, I believe 3rd Rail was able to carry through with the Conrail 4800 in its Bicentennial scheme because a dealer purchased the run of the model.

On the subject of the E7s, here are a few units which continued to wear Pennsy Tuscan following the merger. Note the application of the PC herald on the nose and new PC 4200 series numbers using PRR style numerals:

Intriguing modeling possibilities to be sure.

Bob

The issue with any future run of the E7 has to do with larger numbers than any single railroad can provide.  Another run is probably, and I'm only guessing, about 500-700 units.  The minimum run per road was 40 units.  It may be to 60 now, but I can't pretend to speak for Scott's production requirements with the manufacturer as that is a moving target.  40 units of PC in 2r and 3r would probably sell on a future run if someone wanted to front the costs and could hold a portion of the inventory.  If I were going to get a future E7, it would be PC and in 3 rail.  While my 2 rail layout is 1953-1957 era specific more or less, my 3 rail is a pretty loose 1972 to 1982 time period.  A lot happened then!

Since there have been two full runs of E7s and some specials.  The question is now, what road names that haven't run would fill in the rest of the run?  As much as I'd be interested in one, I suspect we won't see another run of E7's from 3rd Rail anytime soon if at all.  The FL9 tooling is the next generation and an evolutionary improvement.  The FP7 will be as good or better   Your best bet is to lobby for those as a special run through a dealer.  Many FP7s ran up into the Conrail era and would be a nice fit for most three rail layouts with the shorter wheelbase.  Eight road names for the first run are being settled by preorders as we speak.  Your pre-order is your vote

While I'll likely get a set of Tuscan 2R units.  I'd be in for a PC 3 rail one it if happens.  Of course, I'd prefer Amtrak ....... LOL.

Penn Central FP7 anyone?

Bob

I'm always game for anything scale and Penn Central, although the E-7 just would've been nice as I've seen tons of photos of them pulling those stubby little PC passenger trains  We'll just have to see how it all plays out.

Not O scale but my N scale roster hosts quite a bit of PC power. Here's part of the roster. You can see a number of PC locomotives scattered about. They run the gamut from ALCo road switchers to EMD second generation units.

Bob

Nick - as an aside, I am doing contract work on the FP7 and I am also a dealer for 3rd Rail now.  I can't afford to pay for a run outright, but since it is based on the PRR version which will be run for sure, we are talking nearly the same details in different paint.  I'd have to get at least 32 commitments probably to make this work, but it could be a real possibility.  Granted the FP7 was strictly used for freight by the time of PC as were most FP7s, but it will be a great locomotive.  Are there 32 buyers out there on the forum?  This loco could be crowd sourced.  Bob is correct in that this is how the Bicentennial GG1 ran.  It wasn't going to originally. 

Jonathan, if this is a real possibility, you have my commitment as one of your 32. Keep us updated 

Jocko, the fact that you're taking the time to contribute the photos to this thread at all is already greatly appreciated. No need to sell yourself short on the photography, which is fine by the way 

I saw that $45 Lionel caboose on eBay too but the problem was it didn't have its original box. I'm an originality junkie so that ruled out that particular caboose for me. It's still a great deal for a Penn Central fan that doesn't care about boxes.

As for the passenger train that's a really neat custom job on yours. That's basically the idea but I'll be going with the new MTH Penn Central 70' cars because they have interiors, are not too chromed out, and they lack the streamline skirting on the bottom, which is prototypical. I'm also going with a porthole B60 baggage car since that's what I see the most of in photos.

I had pre-ordered an AB set of the PC E7's, but we can only hope they get made in our lifetime.

This is my current Penn Central roster:

Below is my Penn Central scale wish list:

21” Passenger Set

FP7 ABA

Metroliner

F7 ABBA 

E7 and/or E8 ABA

SD45

GG1 (new one in black paint)

Thought I'd also share these little badges I made from a picture on Google images for anyone else that would like to have one in their signature. I'm currently wearing Jade Green 

Penn Central Black:

Penn Central Jade Green:

Penn Central MoW Yellow:

Penn Central MTA Scheme FL9:

Another modeling option for PC passenger consists includes Railway Post Office cars. Although RPO traffic had diminished considerably by the time of the NYC/PRR merger, Penn Central carried RPO cars right up until being absorbed by Conrail. In fact, when the last run of an RPO took place in 1977, it utilized former PC equipment.

Here's a photo of a PC Railway Post Office car:

Bob

Bob, thank you for your continued information on Penn Central modelling opportunities and tips. Keep em' coming 

Brian, impressive roster! This item is what I had questioned Terry about around the time the original two pages got locked:

MTH 20-5603E Penn Central N-8 Caboose

Judging by that item number, is this the caboose from MTH's Penn Central Tropicana Juice Train? It has the same road number as their regular production 20-91112 Penn Central N-8 Caboose and I was wondering if there was any cosmetic difference. If there is, it qualifies to be added to my checklist as a set-breakup item.

Nick, as you mentioned that caboose came from the Tropicana Juice Train set with the E44 locomotive.  I haven't seen them side by side but I'd guess it's the same as the regular MTH  production model.

An interesting thing on my roster is the Lionel caboose #9172.  That was the first/earliest Penn Central rolling stock item I bought.  I found it at the upstairs Strasburg Train Shop back around 1998.  It'a post war style caboose, looks like the SP type, I was told it was a custom paint job (all black) with a pick-up roller and light bulb added.  I thought it would go good with my Williams GG1!

Brian, would you be able to share a good clear photo of it with us? I have the 20-91112 model to compare it to. Who knows, maybe it's slightly tweaked and thus its own item.

Here's Jocko's explanation of the various mating worms from the original two pages that got locked:

Since the MTH Tropicana Juice Train Set was mentioned, I recall observations about the PC herald on at least some of the E44s being done incorrectly. I believe the P and C on the model merged into each other without the edges being separated as on the prototype. Has anyone seen an MTH PC E44 with a properly applied herald?

Bob

I too remember that error, caused quite a stir on the forum back when it happened. I forget what the solution was too.

The solution for the MTH PC E44 was pretty straight forward.  A little modeler's masking tape and black paint.  Granted it was painted incorrectly, but the fix was very easy.  I wish I had the cash to buy one when it came out.  The E44 is one giant gap in my roster of electrics.

I had been thinking in terms of painting out the Penn Central markings and relettering it for Conrail like so:

Bob

What I meant to say was I forgot if MTH offered a factory fix, like Lionel has done in the past with sending out new shells. If I recall correctly the big stir that happened was the people who demanded a factory fix got pretty heated when told it was easy to fix it themselves 

The UPS man also just arrived with the latest acquisitions. The new Lionel caboose is quite nice and it looks like they're still sticking with their very vibrant interpretation of the NYC / PC Jade Green. Also some non-PC heritage equipment to add to the PC mixed freights.

I had remembered 20 as the number but Jonathan corrected me and it's more like 40 or 60. Here is 3rd Rail's page for their E-7s. The announcement flyer still has the Penn Central scheme on it:

http://www.3rdrail.com/instock.html#E7

This thread is proof that not everybody hates the old Penn Central. Much thanks to Nick for starting the thread and assisting in it's revival. Thanks Nick.

 

On another note. Traindiesel, can I come over to your house to play trains with you? That's an impressive roster of Penn Central equipment you have there.

 

 

Just found this website with tons of archived Penn Central info and literature. Still combing through it all. Check it out!

http://www.unlikelypcrr.com/index.html

Nick, the set is currently buried about 6 or 7 feet deep under my layout  I dug in about 4 feet but not sure if I was in the right area.  I try not to open up too many boxes until I finish my trackwork, or else I'll be running instead of building!

When I find it I'll snap a shot of the Juice Train caboose and add it to the thread, unless someone else beats me to it!

Jocko, anytime!  I always welcome forum members.  I'm still in the construction stage but I have four mainlines running so far.

There were several interesting Penn Central schemes worn by members of the GG1 Class. Here is one such example, the 4801:

PRR had never repainted the 4801 in the large keystone scheme so it wore its original pinstripe livery into the early Penn Central years before receiving standard PC colors. Sorry for the use of a black and white picture but images of the 4801 in this unique PC scheme are quite rare.

Bob

I’ve been reading with great interest all the different opinions regarding the Penn Central and thought I would add my two cents.

I grew up with the Penn Central nearby to my childhood home. I was raised just a few miles from, and my father worked at, Selkirk Yard in upstate NY. Some of my earliest childhood memories of the “real thing” were of the Penn Central. Playing with a postwar and early MPC era collection in the 70s I was always left with the thought “why can’t I get Lionel trains that look like the ones I see every day”? In other words, I would see PC engines on a regular basis and longed to play with the same at home. It is a classic case of being influenced by what is around you at a young age. I never knew (nor care today) about the economic shortcomings of the company at the time. And to take it step further, the color scheme is probably one of the most uninspiring out there (white lettering on black with some jade green thrown in from time to time) but you know what? I still like it and enjoy the PC for what it did to help form my love of all things train related. Since getting back into the hobby a couple of years ago I purchased Lionel’s PC RS-11 and love running it. I also got the jade green caboose to go with it. Running this engine and caboose transport me back to that young boy driving around with my dad in his truck at the yard and staring in awe as those giant, black monsters rolled by. Memories I will never, ever lose.

With regards to the future I wouldn’t mind seeing Lionel release an F-3 in PC colors. I would snatch one of those up as soon as it came out.

-Len

Another non-standard scheme was worn by the 4860. Note the absence of a herald:

I plan to do these unusual schemes at some point, a few of which will most likely be HO or N scale versions due to cost factors.

Bob

Just reserved my 3rd Rail Penn Central FL-9 dummy 

http://www.3rdrail.com/instock.html#fl9

Jocko,

Nice collection.  Nice looking layout, too.  It looks like you have pleanty of room to let your locos streatch their legs.

Tom

Just got done with the "family portraits". This is everything PC I currently own minus a few pieces of rolling stock that haven't arrived yet.

Here is the Atlas roster. The left column is Atlas O and the right column is Atlas Trainman.

Here are the Atlas O H21a hoppers. They needed their own photo. A few duplicates I have are going up for sale in the FS forum tonight.

Here is the Lionel roster. PC #9850 is a LEGACY Alco S-2 custom painted by Lucas Liska. Everything is Standard O line.

Here is the MTH roster. Everything is Premier line.

Here are the miscellaneous manufacturers. A Williams scale GG-1 (TrainWorld blowout), the 3rd Rail FL-9, and a Weaver boxcar.

Here's everything in one shot after I was done.

I'll email you 

Got the C-628 on the track today. The length of my mixed PC freight has become absurd for the size of the layout; will post a video tomorrow:

A Penn Central locomotive often overlooked is the 9999 which was the sole surviving member of Pennsylvania Railroad's large group of GE 44 tonners. The 9999 was assigned to PC's Union Transportation Company trackage in Central New Jersey. The line had achieved earlier notoriety as being the last place to find a PRR steam locomotive, an 0-6-0, in regular service.

The 9999 held the distinction of being the highest numbered locomotive on the PC roster.

Bob

This is a great topic I like the PC . I seen this last summer at Bellevue Ohio , its very sad .

Now what I would like to see, since MTH already has the tooling, is individual E8 A-units with command control rear couplers.  The two I would most certainly purchase would be fresh black paint with large PC worm on sides.  One with white worm the other with red & white worm of course with correct road numbers. Obviously these could be run separately or  “lashed-up) into a MU.  This would also open the door for say a washed out Tuscan Red with yellow PC worm and a NYC with partially paint over cigar band logo with the new yellow PC worm applied.

And then I like to see one set of five coaches.  This set would represent the mishmash of early paint overs that existed right after the merger.  Say a Pennsy coach with the lettering over the window band painted over in correct matching Tuscan and yellow PC worms added to the sides at each ends.  Then there is the Pennsy coach where the top lettering was blocked out with an off shade of Tuscan and PC worms added.  The NH SS fluted/ribbed coach with the window band painted green but with a faded NH logo on one end and new PC worm logo on other end etc. ect.  These are pictured in Morning Sun book “Penn Central Through PassengerService.”  With this set we could add an as is Pennsy, NYC, and/or NH car(s) and be very prototypical of the time

Ron

I have that Kato N scale four car set. I've also acquired a baggage car and an RPO car. I still need to add food service of some sort to make it an acceptable representation of the shorter consists being operated over long distances which unfortunately became increasingly common during this period due to relatively lighter ridership.

Bob   

Great discussion as usual gentlemen. For our 100th post in this thread, how about some Penn Central action? 

My apologies if the C-628 portion hurt your eyes. I didn't realize my lens was improperly set and didn't feel like re-shooting it either...

The derelict E8 pictured in nyclines' post is the former Penn Central 4321 which finished its career on New York & Long Branch commuter trains.

Here's a picture I shot of the 4321 at South Amboy in August 1978. Service was now being operated by Conrail but the 4321 retained its full PC livery; note the application of two heralds on the nose. The 4321 was the trailing unit of a four unit consist which had just been uncoupled from its train in preparation for the handoff to a G for the remainder of the trip to New York City. 

The unit immediately ahead of the 4321 was the 4258, fresh from its rebuilding under contract at the ICG shop in Paducah, KY. The NJDOT blue and silver scheme was absolutely delightful.

Note the engine change was taking place under close supervision of the manager seen to the right of the picture.

Bob

Nick, This is all your fault!

Everything except the last C-628 you posted is stuff I'm still after. It all looks so spanking new too  

As for me, Lionel's scale N&W J #611 from 2005 just put an end to any more Penn Central hunting for a while....