phoenix rail o scale

Phoenix railway; is the correct name it was run by Bob Herrick and Ron White near Phoenex Az. They were one of the first companies to make scale 18 inch cars. They had the most correct window placement and side fluting of their time. Each car was closer to prototypical for its use coach, diner, observation; back when lionel used the same window configuration for almost every car. They did not have full interiors only the  silhouettes. Bob passed in the late 90's and they stopped production. Is not much on line for them as they were at the big shows with their passenger cars displayed and typically took orders in person or over the phone. No catalogs or webpage. K-line Weaver and others soon started making the 18-20 inch cars too so there niche was short lived. I have a few sets and the SP daylight with articulated diner-kitchen-tavern car is one of my favorite sets. Always on the hunt for more.

Mark

I have a set of Phoenix SP cars. I'm going to have to dig them out. If I remember correctly it was a 7 car set? I do know I'm missing two original boxes.

Seen sets at shows.......just a bit nicer than WbB 18" cars......but much higher in price so I have never been able to purchase a set. 

I was lucky to order a few cars for the Rio Grande through a little shop in Chicago, and met and talked with one of them, maybe Herrick, who was set up one time in the main bldg. at Wheaton.  Later, it must have been his partner who was selling off unlettered cars on the Bay and l got a couple of those. I need to dig them out.

I have an 8 car set of SP Sunset Limited cars by Phoenix Railways.

I need a pair of bloody nose covered wagons for these!

I have several.  They were very well done.

i wonder if they ever made any amtrak cars

The Phoenix Railways story is interesting and significant in the evolution of passenger cars by the two manufacturers who produced aluminum cars - K Line and Lionel.  Here is my involvement with them.

Bob Herrick was a manufacturer's rep when I owned my train store in Phoenix in the '90s, so I saw him quite frequently.  When he told me about his and Ron's idea for a new passenger car line, done with accurate window placements and road names that had not been done before, I was interested - being a passenger train fan myself.  

As it developed, Bob would bring some of his prototypes to my home to run on my layout to see what I thought. In fact, originally, he and Ron were planning to do the cars in full 20" length, to also match prototype length.  Personally, I thought that a mistake as, even with my minimum 36" curves, the long cars looked really long .  We discussed it and agreed that the primary market for the cars would likely be the shorter 18" cars.  They did offer both lengths, but as Bob told me later, the vast majority of the sets sold were in the 18" length.

Originally, they contacted Lionel to buy car ends and trucks, but Lionel would not sell them to them, so they contacted Jerry Williams, who was happy to do so.  Thus all Phoenix Railways cars came with Williams car ends and trucks.

Bob's sudden passing really took the steam out of the operation. Ron continued to sell items, but I don't believe any new production was started after his death.  Ron is still with us and recently received his 50 year TCA membership certificate and is one of the few remaining Founding Members of our TCA Desert Division.

A sidebar.  I had bought several sets over the years, but was involved in the production of, to my knowledge, of the only "one of a kind" set they produced.  I contacted Bob to see if he could produce a Southern Pacific Golden State passenger set that we could use as the Banquet auction item at our Phoenix TCA National convention in 1997 (this was years before K Line did their series of the same design - copied from us???)  So, they did and we had a Santa Fe 2343 repainted in SP Daylight colors to go with the set.  It sold for a, then, huge amount at the banquet auction.

That next Christmas, I opened a box and there was the four car Golden State set!  What?  There was only one set ever made.  It turns out that my wife, knowing how I had loved that set, had contacted Bob and he had a second set made which she bought for my Christmas present!

Over the years, I've sold off all by my Golden State and the SP Sunset Limited sets.  On the Sunset Limited set, I recently upgraded it to replace the bulbs with LED's, did full interiors, and shortened the spacing between the cars.  I also redid the rear end car to more match the real SP car as Bob had used the stamping for his C&O rear end for the SP set, which was not quite right.  And it happens to be running on the layout right now!

The Golden State set

The upgraded rear car of the Sunset Limited

The Sunset Limited leaving Union Station

A car with LED illumination, shortened coupler spacing, interiors, clear windows and black striping on the red letterboard (prototypical)

Oh, and I forgot to add this picture of Bob and the Phoenix Railways display at our 1997 TCA convention in

Phoenix.

There was a L&N advertised on ebay a few months ago but I did not have the gold to buy.

Brent

So Peter - did you know Jack Speer?  He was also in Phoenix, and also had SP extrusions made.  Perhaps the three of them participated in ordering the extrusions?  Jack's SP extrusions had a minorflaw, but as far as I can tell they were the most accurate Daylight extrusions ever in O Scale, and were more accurate than the more expensive brass imports.

Thanks for sharing this history.  I do like your Sunset Obs - I may have to do one myself.

I believe only Western RR passenger sets were offered. I do not remember any Eastern RR passenger sets were offered. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

There were C&O and L&N for sure

There was a Southern Railway set also.

Neal Jeter

So Peter - did you know Jack Speer? He was also in Phoenix, and also had SP extrusions made. Perhaps the three of them participated in ordering the extrusions? Jack's SP extrusions had a minorflaw, but as far as I can tell they were the most accurate Daylight extrusions ever in O Scale, and were more accurate than the more expensive brass imports.

Bob, yes I knew him and I believe he did the extrustions for them, although that is stretching my memory a bit too far.  On the observation, they used the C&O blunt end dies for the Sunset Limited one.  Problem is the C&O had windows there and the SP did not.  So, I filled them in.  The blanks still show a bit but are acceptable.  Also, I did not like the door casting, so made a new door and added the light cluster.   Finally I added a Sunset Limited drumhead, but see in the photo the light for it is not on.  I guess I'll have to go back into the car to see what the problem is.

There was a grey painted New York Central set.  Never saw one, but I know it was offered - And a unpainted New York central set.

Great post and follow up information.  Thanks.

I reviewed the sets at the time for OGR and spent some time communicating with Bob. He was a knowledgeable fellow, very committed to the hobby and a real gentleman.

Names to add to Williams, Weaver, and Klein.  I only ordered a few cars to model the short Yampa Valley Mail.  Guess l should have tried for the Zephyr.

rrgeorge posted:

There was a grey painted New York Central set.  Never saw one, but I know it was offered - And a unpainted New York central set.

 

Here are some pics of the NYC and C&O sets.

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/rai.../phoenixr/index.html

They are really nice looking cars, got some plated consists from them which we custom decorated.  Plain ones we lettered for the Florida East Coast and we painted/lettered a set with Purple letter boards for the Atlantic Coast Line. Sadly sold them as a friend need some help with an illness. Closest thing since were the no longer produced bright Lionel 18" cars from a few years back.

As Barry says, very nice fellow to work with.

I still have two sets of passenger cars a Santa Fe and a one of a kind Great Northern  which they had to repaint because the original colors were not correct. The other set which I have since sold was a Milwaukee Road 6 car set with a Beaver Tail observation which was my first purchase from them. I wish I had kept it. All are really exceptional sets.

These are beautiful cars; I never heard of them until I visited Marty's home a few months ago and would love to see them come back.  

One of my fellow club members had a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha set with beaver tail observation in a lovely orange and grey. He was rough with his trains and every time he brought them to the club, they were more scratched than the last time. It was bumming me out. Finally I found an almost unused set on eBay and tendered the highest bid I possible could. Now they are mine and run behind a modified MTH copy of the 1937 Lionel Hiawatha 4-4-2.

Perhaps you could find one of their old magazine ads in the OGR or CTT digital library.  As you see in a couple of the photos, their logo is terrific and I remember the ads were very 'classy' looking.

Next time I get to the Toy Train Museum I'll visit the library and see what's there. 

This is a long shot, but does anyone know who might have replacement parts? I just acquired a 7-car SP Daylight set and unfortunately, the dome on the dome car was damaged in shipping. Other than that, these are gorgeous cars!

Thanks

John

Well if the parts are comming from Williams, you should be able to use either a Lionel postwar or Williams dome.

Peter,

As I recall, weren't some of the last of Ron's parts used to build the custom painted passenger set that was auctioned off at the Desert Division?  That was a beautiful one of a kind set that didn't sell for nearly as much as it should have.  Great history of some really nice cars.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Well if the parts are comming from Williams, you should be able to use either a Lionel postwar or Williams dome.

The dome on this car is much longer--approx. 14" long. I've searched around but no luck. 

Jonathan, I don't remember auctioning Ron's parts, but if you have an idea of the year, I can look it up.  On the custom sets, the only one I was involved with was the Golden State set that we made for the banquet auction at the 1997 Phoenix TCA convention.  (And if you want the rest of that story, you will have to come for an in person visit.)  It sold for a then ridiculously high price - and we were delighted.

BobbyD posted:

They are really nice looking cars, got some plated consists from them which we custom decorated.  Plain ones we lettered for the Florida East Coast and we painted/lettered a set with Purple letter boards for the Atlantic Coast Line. Sadly sold them as a friend need some help with an illness. Closest thing since were the no longer produced bright Lionel 18" cars from a few years back.

As Barry says, very nice fellow to work with.

I think I have that set. I bought a set on cars off the bay that were lettered for the ACL and FEC, with a Champion drumhead on the rear. I picked it up run with my Lionel ACL E-6s, but also have the MTH ACL and RF&P E-8s that I could use as well. So any ACL or FEC was custom and not produced by Phoenix? 

I may eventually add interiors to make a more prototypical train in the future.

I have one of the unpainted New York Central coaches opened box but in unrun condition. Picked it up at a layout Christmas open house about 12 years ago.

This is a great post, I had never heard of them until now.  Their cars look terrific, I'm a huge SP fan, they are my favorite RR.  I grew up with the SP, my dad worked for them when I was little, he was a signal maintainer and road a speeder.   Later in life, I was a switchman for them but I was on the T&NO side here in El Paso.

Thanks for a great post and tons of good information, I'll be on the lookout for the SP cars in the future as I'd really like to have a set of the Sunset LTD. cars.

Cheers,

    nice cars... like them !

If you like a shiny/glossy finish on your trains, you will be happy with these cars. I have a 7-car set in SP Daylight colors and they are among my most prized modern trains in my collection. I run them with my Williams Crown Edition GS4 and the colors of the 2 brands are a spot-on match. 

John

Definitely keeping my eye out for more of the NYC cars I'd like to have a consist of them

Fascinating thread & history !!!

Thank you to all posters for sharing your knowledge !!!

CB&Q Bill