Pickup rollers sparking

Try oiling your pickup rollers very generously from both sides, making sure the oil passes completely through. Standard MTH oil conducts well.

Try bachmann E-Z lube conductive contact lube. One drop on roller work wonder

Worked on it some more seems to sparking on the outside rail as well. Not as much though.

I have seen th e sparking on the common rail with some MTH engines. I use Gargraves track and Ross Turnouts. The arcing occurs on the rail that is not connected to the transformer. Thinking that a common jumper to tie this rail to the common that has a transformer connection might help this.

making ozone?
nothing wrong with that!

overlandflyer posted:

making ozone?
nothing wrong with that!

Except for the burning/pitting marks on the wheels, pick-up rollers, and top of the rails!

Hot Water posted:

overlandflyer posted:

making ozone?
nothing wrong with that!

Except for the burning/pitting marks on the wheels, pick-up rollers, and top of the rails!

makes me wonder... growing up with a #50 Gang Car, it never moved an inch without sparking, year after year, but i can't recall ever seeing a piece of damaged track and i have the same car with original rollers and wheels still in good shape.  was 50's tinplate made of tougher stuff?

Thanks for the assistance today. I tried all of your suggestions as well as some other ideas and nothing seems to be correcting the problem.  Cannot figure out why the center rail is still sparking.  Going to call Ross tomorrow to see if they can help me figure this out.

I use CRC 2-26 on the center rail.   It is plastic safe.

You do a twist to Gomez Adams and attach fire crackers underneath with the fuse going to the rollers 

Sorry couldn't resist 

My experience with pickup roller sparking is that it is usually caused by the loco motor drawing too much current.  Lube the loco and see if the sparking doesn't cease or get much better.  I recommend 5W-20 motor oil for everything.  It is inexpensive and never, never evaporates or gets gummy or hard.  Do not use WD-40, 3 in 1 oil, light machine oil, sewing machine oil, white lithium grease, Lionel Lube (really bad), or any other grease.  I can find data on the Internet for the vapor pressure of motor oil, but can't find data for any other lubricant.  I have a 2025 loco that was lubed with motor oil in 1965.  It was in the closet for 40 years, and when I put it on the track after 40 years in the closet, it ran just fine.  I can't recommend any other lubricants like LaBelle because I can't find any data on them.  I will not lube a loco or anything else with a lube for which I cannot find data.  I am an engineer with 53 years of experience, and I don't take opinions.  I want to see data.  

When you lube your loco, make sure that you lube everything that turns or slides.  Make sure the axle bearings are lubed.  If it is a diesel, you may have to disassemble it to lube the gearboxes.  If it is a loco like a 736 with a worm drive, you will have to disassemble the loco to properly lube the worm drive and motor.  

You may read opinions by some forum members that grease should be used for gears.  I don't agree for a very simple reason.  The gear teeth are not the only thing that needs to be lubed.  The shafts that the gears turn  on also need to be lubed.  Please explain how to get grease on these bearings?  I have repaired a couple of locos that had severe damage to bearings due to lack of lube.  

I like the sparking, still run on tubular track. Makes for a Classic Lionel Operating Session.

Gary

Try running the loco while you take some readings with a voltmeter.  There will be slight variations as the engines goes down the track.  If there seems to be a high variation, see if there is, or an increase in sparking.

Also check to see if the rollers are warm or hot to the touch after running for a while..

Ran the loco and rollers are cold.  No heat whatsoever. Not sure if that is good or bad.  I am wondering if some of this is due to my track not screwed down yet as still in building phase.  I worked on aligning it last night and seemed to make it better but really never ceased.  It is a much lighter track than my old track and has some give to it in areas where not totally flat so maybe bouncing at a microscopic level.  I tried a diesel this morning that I have and seemed to perform very well with very little to none sparking. That loco always did run extremely smooth.  I have my Z-4000 commg this week so will be able to get accurate readings on the voltage and amps. Going to all lube the drive rods on the steam engines and see if that helps and someone suggested earlier.

Can you run your "sparking engines" on a friend's layout? This will help determine if the problem is the engine or the track.

You could also set up a straight section of test track on a smooth table top. Then run the engine on your test track with the same transformer to see if the sparking is still present. The shorter section of track will only need one track connection and could be made from any make of track, even old Tubular track. 

Some engines just do that. My Marx trains all do that, as does my Lionel 258 and 685. What engine is it that sparks?

Joe,  that is a great idea.  I have a oval of some fast track I picked up for the Christmas tree.  I will see how that performs when I get some time today.

El Classico, does not matter what steam engine.  Most of what I run is new. Although have a lionel postwar 2055 that I had replaced all the rollers on and ran great with no sparking until the new track.  The other trains is a small lionel baby hudson around the year 2000 and the other two steam engines are MTH 30-1520-1 and 30-1149-0.

The Cincinnatian posted:

New to the forum, my first post. Recently doubled my layout and replaced all my track with all new Ross track and switches. I am getting sparks between the pickup rollers and the center rail all over the layout.  As I said the track is brand new.  I cleaned it with alcohol several times yet still sprarking no matter what locomotive I run or even a lighted caboose with rollers. Cleaned the rollers too. My hobby shop said to use fine sandpaper on the center rail.  Tried on a section of track and did not work. I even swept the track with a vaccum.  Still no success and getting frustrated.   Maybe I need to put more power feeds in more than one yet plenty of power as wondering if a grounding issue.  I am using a MTH z-1000 and running wires to a Ross power track which has a soldered clip on. Also tried another transformer.  I read about WD40 but afraid that might lead to other issues and was afraid to try it.  Any thoughts?

You know this seems to be a growing problem over the recent decade. I haven't found any solution in cleaning fluids or processes, nor lubricants that eliminate it only temporary improvements. I can't say that this is a problem with material changes in pick-up rollers or wheels, or to the track itself as I'm seeing it with old post war and contemporary equipment, maybe power companies have modified AC wave forms, but I haven't checked any of that.

While mulling the problem the thought hit me that pick-up rollers and wheels are essentially continuously operating relay contacts that instantly make and break contact at any one spot of their circumference. So I'm starting to wonder if a spark suppression circuit similar to that of a relay would work when placed between the center and outside rails which would place it parallel with the contact circuit of the motor (pick-up and wheels). This could be as simple as Varister or TVS diode.  My layout is down for some summer maintenance so I haven't tried to size these parts and run a test, but enough of it is up that if I get through yard work (house), roof, bathroom remodel, etc. I might find some time to actually work up a design.

Bogie

Most engines today have DC motors being fed with rectified electricity from the center rail.  Could it be possible some of this power is not being properly rectified, and some is being returned to the center rail?

What you're experiencing sounds really odd. Is it just one engine or multiple engines? Can you provide a photo of the layout, power supply and engine. Over time, pitting from the arcing will eat the track up and the problem will get worse. Sounds like something is wrong somewhere that needs to be corrected.

Finally resolved.  A train friend of mine told me to put a second common wire  from the outside rail and connect it to the house.  I attached it to the bottom of a base of a pole on my basement floor. So the issue was improper grounding.  Thanks for all the help guys, this is a great forum.

I hope you don't plan to run TMCC or Legacy!  That ground wire to the outside rail will absolutely kill the TMCC/Legacy track signal!!

If a ground wire fixed the sparking problem, I am absolutely amazed.  It shouldn't!

Dale Manquen posted:

... If a ground wire fixed the sparking problem, I am absolutely amazed.  It shouldn't!

Yeah, I don't understand it either. And Dale is an electronics wiz.

Sparking is more commonly caused by dirty track or possibly incompatible metals. One of my old Marx locos with die-cast wheels sparks a lot, no matter how much I clean wheels and rails.

The Ross web site suggests that rail-wheel sparking with new track may diminish after some use. I would be suspicious of chemically-blackened center rails, if that's what you have.

overlandflyer posted:

Hot Water posted:

overlandflyer posted:

making ozone?
nothing wrong with that!

Except for the burning/pitting marks on the wheels, pick-up rollers, and top of the rails!

makes me wonder... growing up with a #50 Gang Car, it never moved an inch without sparking, year after year, but i can't recall ever seeing a piece of damaged track and i have the same car with original rollers and wheels still in good shape.  was 50's tinplate made of tougher stuff?

This is what I love about the Gang Car, the sparking action and ozone. I'm a postwar lover for life!

I would have cleaned the pickup rollers on the engine(s), too

Finally got it fixed. My z-4000 came in this week and it eliminated the issue entirely. No need for the other ground I had.  Still do not understand what the issue was but now fully resolved.

Purchase a socket tester and it will tell you if you have any receptacles wired backwards in the house. Also check any power strips and extension cords your using. You may have something out of phase.