Layout change's 08/05/2023

Morning guys I hope your all doing well.

Dave thanks for the updates and everything looks wonderful. As for the escape route I like the idea, I guess I will have to see how many extra switches I have left over after this! LOL

@Steamfan77 Andy I really like your photos of your lower storage yard, can you explain how you they get down there and maybe some photos of the area.

@ScoutingDad Jeff the upper loop area with the sidings is going to be the refinery and maybe one of the power company buildings.

Thank you all for your great ideas and help with everything so far! I hope you all are able to have a wonderful Thanksgiving with your families!

Here's my contribution for today (so far ). I added the engine storage I mentioned earlier. I also added some semi-transparent decking for each level for the 3D view. And I added the gold color to some main level tracks to make it easier to see the separate runs for unattended running of 2 trains. The gold track is the outer run and the yellow the inner. A 3rd train can be run using the upper reversing loop, but the engineer will have to be careful not to interrupt the others when he/she brings the train down to the main level. A 4th engine can be run in the yard to switch cars around. That means there is enough operational capability for 3-4 engineers.

In place of the engine yard, a turntable or reversing loop (limited to O-31) could be added to turn engines. Turn on the Decking layer to see those options.

@mike g. posted:

@ScoutingDad Jeff the upper loop area with the sidings is going to be the refinery and maybe one of the power company buildings.

Oops! I need to raise the refinery. 🤪 As for the switches, I  just filled the lower level space with the goal of getting more equipment on the layout itself to minimize you having to manually swap cars and engines too often. None of the extras are needed, they just make some things easier. You can always back trains down to the lower level.

Mike, I must have overlooked Andy’s post and got sidetracked going down from the upper right. Let me see what I can come up with going down from the upper left instead. I think I might be able to work in more of a real yard and reversing loop.

Hey Dave, you're the expert, is there any way to get 2 trains on the simulator at the same time?

Only if you paid for the Power Edition of the simulation feature.

BTW, here's my latest version. I'm not happy with the lower reversing loop because there are reach issues for some of the tracks. I tried to put the switch closer to the edge for access, that's why the loop is kind of cockeyed. I incorporated the current yard with the new expanded yard. I offer it purely as food for thought.

Thanks Dave, but to be honest I am fine with the 6 storage tracks as I am building on a reuse budget. I might be able to get more stuff down the road, but I don't really plan on it. I have enough trains right now for my little room.

That's fine with me Mike. I enjoy trying to see what I can be fit in a given space and I'm just wasting time watching TV.

Great work on the plan Dave, you are a wizard.
Mike, here are some pictures of the layout and the track plan. The staging tracks are below the yard are in red.
The staging tracks are actually the same height as the Mineola area on the layout. I start to elevate the branch line when it comes off the main, and continue as the branch line proceeds into Locust Valley. In effect, the branch line is raised not the staging yard if that makes sense. It was the only way for me to have the extra track and maneuverability without increasing the footprint of the layout.The first few pictures show the staging area before it was covered by the yard.

Andy

Hi Andy thanks for the photos, but I still don't see where you go below the table for your under the layout storage tracks?

Mike, the first and second pictures are the storage tracks before the yard is built on top of them. In the third and fourth pictures I’m showing how the branch line and yard are elevated to be higher than the storage tracks.
The storage tracks are on the same level as Mineola on the layout as you can see in the back of the second picture. The branch line comes off the main in Mineola, and starts up grade from there. That’s what gives me the height to have the yard over the storage tracks.

Andy

Hi guys, here is the final plan I am going with. I hope you all like it and thank you for all your help Dave!

@mike g. posted:

Hi guys, here is the final plan I am going with. I hope you all like it and thank you for all your help Dave!

I Love it, Mike.

@mike g.  Mike for what my 2 cents are worth - I kept thinking about this section and how the upper and lower track relate and then to whatever you want on each level.  I kept thinking it would be decked over. Maybe a partial deck to support the higher level track and the extra yard track you want with room for industries, but then the other portion would be elevated track to allow access and positioning of lower level industries.  Transition walls could be fairly steep, maybe only a small section with stone walls.  Footprint can be moved around to meet your needs.

@mike g. posted:

Hi guys, here is the final plan I am going with. I hope you all like it and thank you for all your help Dave!

Looks like a Grand Plan!    Good storage and continues loops with reversing opportunities.  What is the minimum radius and elevation?  Glad that you will be able to get outdoors with this plan.    Good luck with the rebuild!   Looking forward to your progress!  

Cheers, Dave

Dave, the green is O-72, the gold O-54. Unfortunately, because of the gold "S" curvature for the dual mains on the right, there is no full O-72 route and engines have to be able to negotiate O-54.

Well guys I already started and now have to rethink the plan! I went out and took inventory of all my engines and found out they will all run on O-54 curves but one. The 4-8-4 that I got earlier this year, it requires O-72 curves!

Not sure what the next move will be, but will keep moving forward.

Mike, I like the plan.  I’m sorry the 4-8-4 needs 072 curves.  

Mark, even though it looks like that, it’s not the case, the green loop connects to the red grade going down and there’s no way to get back up without going through the O-54 curves.

Dave, I looked at it on the laptop and see just what you mean!  

@mike g. posted:

Well guys I already started and now have to rethink the plan! I went out and took inventory of all my engines and found out they will all run on O-54 curves but one. The 4-8-4 that I got earlier this year, it requires O-72 curves!

Not sure what the next move will be, but will keep moving forward.

Hi Mike, Your lasted plan looks perfect.  I have a similar situation with all engines except one, can run on 054 curves or less.   For some odd reason, I purchased an engine that can only run on 072 curves, knowing full well that it can't run on my layout.  I justified the purchase by thinking that I will just run it on a carpet central railroad, at Christmas time.  So, I bought some 072 Lionel Fastrack, but have not told my wife the plan yet, so I may have to go to plan "B".  I think keeping your layout as designed would be the best option and would make you think twice about the larger engines.  There are so many engines that run on 054 curves, so no worries about lack of options. 

All the best, Dave

I only have 054 curves, so I didn’t buy an engine that takes 072.  I think Dave has a good idea.  Mike, maybe your solution will be to put in all 072 outside and run the big engine there.  Incentive to get that squirrel hole opened for trains to get out.

Thanks guys for your input,  I think I will see if can do something.  If push comes to shove I may have to see if I can trade it for a similar engine that can run on O-54 curves.

Mike- I like the new plan except for the 4-8-4 issue. I'm sure there are plenty of mid-size (4-6-4, 2-6-2) steamers that would run on 054.

Keep at it and you will figure it out.

Bob

Mike I have an MTH Premier GS4 4-8-4 which runs OK on 054 curves. What it does not like are less than perfectly flat turnouts.  Did you try running it to see if derails into the 054 curves? I have a Bi-Polar which is supposed to be 072 but runs fine on smaller curves.

Thanks Bob, I'm sure it will get figured out one way or another.

Jeff I haven't  but I don't plan on selling or trading before I get a chance to try it. I have some O-54 curves, but not enough to make a full loop. Guess I am going to have to buy more! Lol

Mike, I have some extra 054 curves.  Take an inventory of what you have and let me know.  I have lots of extra 042 curves I bought for Plans B and C. 😄 But they don’t help you, and I don’t need them on Plan E.  😄

Thanks Mark I will check, I know the an calls dlfor alot. The track you have is it MTH scale track?

Hi Mark, the plan calls for 60 0-54 sections! LOL I hope to make up some of that with flextrack.

Mike, wow!  Thats a lot!  😉  I will check after I get home from my 3-year checkup on my knee replacement!  Hard to believe it has been that long.  😊

@Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, wow!  Thats a lot!  😉  I will check after I get home from my 3-year checkup on my knee replacement!  Hard to believe it has been that long.  😊

I know tell me about it! I didn't check till today as I know I just liked the plan. It might be a while before it is done as I have a feeling it's going to take a fair amount of money to get all of them! LOL

Mike,

There are bigger problems with the design. I went over it a bit more thoroughly and found the loops on the left going to the bridge are less than O-72. Initially I had just checked the curves at the top of the loops and they're O-72. I should have remembered that they tighten going to the bridge because I had checked them earlier to make sure they weren't less than O-54.

The other problem is that the upper reversing loop is off kilter because of the cut tracks. They join in SCARM until you disassemble them and try to put them back together or, in this case, try to make changes. The interesting thing is they fit properly using all sectional O-72 tracks and only cutting 1 straight track at the switch, so I'm not sure how you ended up with cut curves and tiny fitters.

At any rate, here's what I've come up with as a possible compromise. The gold, red and green tracks are O-72 and the yellows are O-54. The grade up is 2.9% and down is 3.8%, but should be doable, even if you need to use a yard switcher to push some extra cars up to make a long consist for the Big Boy. BTW, the switch to the grade down is O-72, so the Big Boy can back down and pick up some cars as long as the lead car is past the O-54 switches. The bridge can also be moved up the the NE a bit and the decking adjusted accordingly if needed so the Big Boy can clear the switch and not hit the bridge, but I don't think it'd be a problem either way. You can probably adjust the lower right yellow loop to be more concentric, but I'd add landscaping for some interest and separation.

Oh, and I know you plan to use FlexTrax, but this at least shows how O-54 and O-72 would fit/look. HTH

Nice job, Dave!

Mike, I have less 054 than I thought.  I have more 042 than I thought.  I will have to retract my offer.  Sorry about that. 😢

Hi Dave, thanks for giving it another look. I am just wondering why you moved the switch from the right of the bridge to the left for the upper loop?

I already have the grade loop going up laid and the cork for the outside lower loop laid, with the plan of 3 tracks going across the opening where the bridges are.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Nice job, Dave!

Mike, I have less 054 than I thought.  I have more 042 than I thought.  I will have to retract my offer.  Sorry about that. 😢

Its All good Mark, I will find it where I can and get it as I can afford it. Thanks for looking!

Mike, that was just to widen the aisle because the size of the main and lower decks had to be increased to accommodate the O-72 loop.. If you think you can squeeze through, you can leave it the way it was. I’m not a big fan of wide aisles unless operations are going to take place inside.

Mike, you don’t need to buy O-54 curves if you think you can bend the FlexTrax and have enough. I just like to design with sectional track so I know things will work.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Mike, that was just to widen the aisle because the size of the main and lower decks had to be increased to accommodate the O-72 loop.. If you think you can squeeze through, you can leave it the way it was. I’m not a big fan of wide aisles unless operations are going to take place inside.

Thanks for getting back to me so fast Dave! I think I will leave it with 3 tracks going over the bridge opening as I already have the upper and lower outer loops on that end laid! LOL Plus the doctor said I have to lose 20lbs and the wife has already changed my eating habits! LOL

That works for me, Mike. The important thing is you can work comfortably during/ after the build. I didn’t realize you were that far along.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

That works for me, Mike. The important thing is you can work comfortably during/ after the build. I didn’t realize you were that far along.

I got a couple days before the snow comes again,  then knee surgery so I am trying to get done what I can before I have to sit on my rear for a few days! Lol