Possible Scam

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.  It's a duck.  Walk away from this deal.

I've been told that the biggest tip off to a scam is payment by Western Union, or Bit Coin. Also, you may want to take the photo of the I.D. to a Recruiter near by and see if they can determine if the I.D. is stolen. Just a thought.

A few points to consider:

1) Since you did NOT put you personal eMail address in your "Wanted to Buy" posting, the person MUST be a registered "member" here on OGR. Otherwise he/she could not have opened your profile and found your eMail address.

2) Since the person must be a registered "member", maybe ask the moderators to check the person out.

3) The requirements for payment certainly sound fishy.

I have to question why this kind of post keeps showing up?  Yes, it's a SCAM!

Why would anyone even consider a deal like this?

Another reason why you never post your email address on the forum. Only members can access it through your profile. Doesn't stop everything but the scammers looking for addressed on web sites will be stopped.

I agree with the folks who say move on. Even flip phones can take a picture of something. The picture might be grainy but it would still show the item. Forget this person. 

PayPal family and friends, bit coin, western union.

All are without any recourse for you.

PS: A guitar forum I belong to is having people copy a picture off ebay or other sales sites and posting items for sale. Total scam

How the **** does one obtain Bitcoin anyway? And then how would you send it to pay it? 

To me it's PayPal regular or USPS money order. No gift cards, no Western Union wires, no pictures of the item itself, and no Western Union Money Orders! All are flags the deal is a scam!

RSJB18 posted:

Another reason why you never post your email address on the forum. Only members can access it through your profile. Doesn't stop everything but the scammers looking for addressed on web sites will be stopped.

One such Bitcoin culprit is a forum member using the name, Stephen E. Thomas on his gmail account.  Replied to a WTB I posted that referred respondents to my profile for contact information.  Ceased contact when asked for his forum display name.

Hot Water posted:

A few points to consider:

2) Since the person must be a registered "member", maybe ask the moderators to check the person out.

Suggested identifying IP addresses of the relatively small number of views of my WTB post and matching with member logins, but that apparently is outside the scope of the moderator role.

If you even feel the need to post something here questioning the validity of a transaction, that should be the first clue that you should just walk away from it. "Any doubt, bow out" should be the way to handle it.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have to question why this kind of post keeps showing up?  Yes, it's a SCAM!

Why would anyone even consider a deal like this?

For the record, I'm glad that people will post threads like this.  Gives other members like me who haven't been at this site very long knowledge and warnings of what to look for. 

Agreed though, sounds like a scam.

Sounds like a big time train (money) collector...... in Nigeria. 🧐

I was also approached by someone wanting to be paid by Bitcoin via an WTB ad I posted on the forum. I managed to get the guy on the phone - he had a foreign accent and swore he was not a scammer. I asked him to send me pictures of the item he alleged to have for sale, and he sent pictures of the box, but they were of an older product with Odyssey that didn't match what I was looking for. I walked away from the deal.

Bottom line for me: If someone doesn't accept Paypal, there's something wrong. Its the universal payment system nowadays.

What Marty said!

Not sure about the need for PayPal for someone to be legitimate. 

I've never had it or needed it.  I just shipped several items to forumites last week as i have in the past.  

And no rich I don't run a hobby store. 

I've used PayPal Friends & Family successfully with a Forum Member at his request.  His reputation is/was enough for me. 

Jon

Paul Kallus posted:

...Bottom line for me: If someone doesn't accept Paypal, there's something wrong. Its the universal payment system nowadays.

aussteve posted:

Not sure about the need for PayPal for someone to be legitimate....

For many it is not a matter of legitimacy as much as it is convenience. As an example, I have a few web clients that I bill for services on a regular basis for both hosting and site design work. It is much more convenient for them to just be able to click a link in their emailed invoice and pay via PayPal as opposed to writing and sending a check.

Same here. It's a lot easier for someone to pay via PayPal than it is to pay by check or money order.

I have had trouble in the past with PayPal and just will not use it. I guess I am kind of old fashioned. I will still take a personal check or USPO money order and that is how I pay also. No PayPal for me.

I have had trouble with them not recognizing my acct, even when I put in the correct pin info. And good luck ever talking to a real person at that place. 

aussteve posted:

Not sure about the need for PayPal for someone to be legitimate. 

I've never had it or needed it.  I just shipped several items to forumites last week as i have in the past.  

And no rich I don't run a hobby store. 

I said "bottom line for me" that something could be wrong. Never said anything about legitimate or not.

Its a free-country and people can use whatever payment system they're comfortable with.

Rich Melvin posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

...Bottom line for me: If someone doesn't accept Paypal, there's something wrong. Its the universal payment system nowadays.

aussteve posted:

Not sure about the need for PayPal for someone to be legitimate....

For many it is not a matter of legitimacy as much as it is convenience. As an example, I have a few web clients that I bill for services on a regular basis for both hosting and site design work. It is much more convenient for them to just be able to click a link in their emailed invoice and pay via PayPal as opposed to writing and sending a check.

Same here. It's a lot easier for someone to pay via PayPal than it is to pay by check or money order.

PayPal has been in business since 1998. In 2002 Ebay bought it then in 2015 divested it. It has been a publicly traded company since 2002. The basic issue for people that sell with PayPal is like credit card companies it charges a fee for sellers whether they run a business or not. I believe it operates under the principle that all money sent to anyone is a business transaction. This is the reason for its Friends and Family option where it does not charge fees.

I have been using PayPal for my business since 2008 and also paying for product from other sellers. I find it convenient but most importantly I'm not sending my credit card number to everyone on the internet. 

With that said if anyone I would buy from ever said BitCoin or Western Union I would run. In my business I will accept US Post Office checks but won't accept bank checks (especially ones with weird names). I had one hanging on my shop wall for a number of years as a reminder (a guy overpaid big, said keep a $100 for my trouble and send him the balance by wire - yea ok will get right on it.....). I'm also not much enthused with and discourage personal checks (another learning experience early in my business career) unless a customer is known or is willing to wait for 3+ weeks after depositing the check before I ship product. 

 I found out there is no time limit for a bank to refuse payment.  They can come along six months later and demand reimbursement.  And get it!

I had always thought when a check "cleared" you were home free.  Not true, according to a WaMu VP I contacted.

I was just curious - I knew the check would bounce when I took it - the guy was broke.  I went to the bank and asked how long before it "cleared".  They laughed.

I think the only way to make sure a check will clear, is to take the check to the bank it was written from and cash it. When I had my business, I got a check for parts from a local bank. I just happened to have an account there too. There was insufficient funds in the guys acct. well, about once a month I would try to cash that check and it would not go. One day, about 8 or 9 months later, I took it to the bank and it cashed. Now I had my money. The guy who originally wrote the checkcalled and griped me out as it made 3 or 4 of his other recent checks bounce. Ha, ha. He thought I had forgotten about it and thrown the check away. Served him right.

mowingman posted:

... Ha, ha. He thought I had forgotten about it and thrown the check away. Served him right.

Mowingman, that is actually quite the most awesome story I've heard today.   Love that he griped about it afterwards.  What could he have said?  "Ohhh, but you were supposed to just forget about it!" 

No way, Jose!  You got your money and comeuppance!  

Paul Kallus posted:

 

I said "bottom line for me" that something could be wrong. Never said anything about legitimate or not.

Its a free-country and people can use whatever payment system they're comfortable with.

 

 

Paul, not intending to start an argument, but what you posted;

"Bottom line for me: If someone doesn't accept Paypal, there's something wrong."

does not say something COULD be wrong.

I have my reasons that I will not voluntarily use PayPal and there are others that have theirs.  

As for this statement;

"Its the universal payment system nowadays."  

I believe that will remain "cash" until done away with.

About a year ago, there was a member selling lots of  O gauge items here.  I questioned  him on some details and payment, via email.  within a few minutes, his post was gone and so was he. And no record of him on the forum'... Apparently these hackers are more than slick... One can never be too cautious these days'..

GregM posted:

As for this statement;

"Its the universal payment system nowadays."  

I believe that will remain "cash" until done away with.

The obvious response is that it's dumb to send cash through the mail, so some other payment method is called for.  So the question is which one is best.

But beyond that, have you read about and seen pictures of some of the counterfeit cash that is being produced these days?  It's really "good".  I rarely sell items to people I don't know, but if I did, I would use my "test marker" on all of the bills.  And even that isn't 100% reliable.  

Much as I hate to see our lives being taken over by impersonal electronic magic, I will stick with PayPal as the most reliable method.  

GregM posted:

...As for this statement;
"Its the universal payment system nowadays."
I believe that will remain "cash" until done away with...

Really? I have not paid for anything with CASH for years, other than the occasional lunch at a fast food place.

It is much more convenient to put our purchases on a credit card, then get on line at the end of the month and pay the bill with a few mouse clicks. No interest, no fees, just convenience. All our utility bills, plus cable, phone and internet for the house and the satellite service in the motor home are paid automatically with a direct draw from the checking account...no checks to write and mail. My Railroad Retirement (equivalent to Social Security) monthly payment is a direct deposit to my checking account...no check.

Out of about a dozen web clients, only one still pays me with a monthly check. All the others use PayPal.

As an aside to this subject...20 years ago there were aviation companies all over the country that flew cancelled checks back to their respective banks everyday. That was their only business...flying cancelled checks at night. In my area in northeast Ohio, there was an outfit at Lorain County Airport that had a fleet of 24 Aerostars that they used every night to fly cancelled checks. In that era, during the wee hours of every morning, there were thousands of small aircraft in the air carrying cancelled checks. Today, there are none. That business is completely gone now, mainly for two reasons. The internet, and the drastic drop in the number of checks written these days.

Like it or not, cash (and checks) are on their way out.

Mallard4468 posted:

GregM posted:

As for this statement;

"Its the universal payment system nowadays."  

I believe that will remain "cash" until done away with.

The obvious response is that it's dumb to send cash through the mail, so some other payment method is called for.  So the question is which one is best.

But beyond that, have you read about and seen pictures of some of the counterfeit cash that is being produced these days?  It's really "good".  I rarely sell items to people I don't know, but if I did, I would use my "test marker" on all of the bills.  And even that isn't 100% reliable.  

Much as I hate to see our lives being taken over by impersonal electronic magic, I will stick with PayPal as the most reliable method.  

There is a difference between what payment method may be BEST in a given situation and a UNIVERSAL payment system.

And for what it is worth, I once received cash in the mail in payment for a car I sold here on the forum.  It was surprising and quite unexpected, but the buyer got his car shipped out asap.

Rich Melvin posted:

GregM posted:

...As for this statement;
"Its the universal payment system nowadays."
I believe that will remain "cash" until done away with...

Really? I have not paid for anything with CASH for years, other than the occasional lunch at a fast food place.

It is much more convenient to put our purchases on a credit card, then get on line at the end of the month and pay the bill with a few mouse clicks. No interest, no fees, just convenience. All our utility bills, plus cable, phone and internet for the house and the satellite service in the motor home are paid automatically with a direct draw from the checking account...no checks to write and mail.

Out of about a dozen web clients, only one still pays me with a monthly check. All the others use PayPal.

As an aside to this subject...20 years ago there were aviation companies all over the country that flew cancelled checks back to their respective banks everyday. That was their only business...flying cancelled checks at night. In my area in northeast Ohio, there was an outfit at Lorain County Airport that had a fleet of 24 Aerostars that they used every night to fly cancelled checks. In that era, during the wee hours of every morning, there were thousands of small aircraft in the air carrying cancelled checks. Today, there are none. That business is completely gone now, mainly for two reasons. The internet, and the drastic drop in the number of checks written these days.

Like it or not, cash (and checks) are on their way out.

I don't pay for much with cash either these days.  I haven't written a check in years although in certain circumstances my bank has sent a paper check even though I used the banks online bill pay facility to make the payment.  I use a CC that accumulates points as much as possible too.  I will stand by my statement that "I believe that will remain "cash" until done away with..."  It is a matter of definition, not preferences to me.

In short!  DON'T DO IT! Back in 2018 I had the same thing, only this guy wanted money sent via Western Union!  I asked for pictures and he said his phone couldn't do it correctly. Etc, etc, etc,   I found out my local Walgreens handles Western Union. The employee talked me out of it, saying it is probably a scam. I took her advise, and I am glad I did. And the people on the Forum said  to stay away. Hope you do too!!

Regarding paper checks, I will be SOOO HAPPY once hand written paper checks have been eliminated!!!  Nothing more fustrating than waiting for some old lady in line at the check out counter at the local A&P or Stop and Shop and watch the cashier total everything up and then the old lady slowly pulls out a checkbook after the total has been calculated and methodically writes out the check and then writes down the check info in the register before tearing it off and handing to the cashier.

It just makes you want to scream!  Just use a debit card like everyone else these days!  LOL 

Hey wait, that could be me writing out that check!

My wife and I are from the "old school." We never once used an ATM, we like cash and paper checks and are surviving well! 

Tom 

Boy howdy, a lot of emotion in this thread.  

Must be the York week coming out.

the first bank to receive a check captures it electronically (digital) and then destroys it.

All the bank to bank exchanges are now electronic.

Very efficient...  but also very difficult to detect alterations or forgeries.

It's a numbers game. Dollars saved far exceed the associated risks inherent when there is no longer a paper check.