Tried to build a train in 1.3 using my Santa Fe Anniversary Passenger Set 6-21786. In this set, there are a powered A and a powered B unit along with a non-powered B and a non-powered A. The non-powered B is where all the sounds are including the horn and bell. There is also a StationSounds diner. It is easy enough to build the train and set up Train Link. However, when Legacy creates the train the Speed Limit banner appears at the top of the screen and the train will not move when you turn the knob. I tried building the train without Train Link and it worked fine for a couple of minutes but then Speed Limit kicked in and again the train would not move. I have experimented with different combinations of units. The only combination that does not trip the Speed Limit is to put only the two powered units in the train. However, they would not run at the same speed. What works best is simply to give everything the same engine number and run it as an engine. Anyone have ideas on other things I might try?
Mike
DC Mike,
Migh help to ensure you have a first class, clean signal on both the wireless and wired (track) links.
Make sure your CAB-2 batteries are in peak condition for the wireless link. And if possible put your engines and car on a test track.
If this works you can go to step two whatever that is.
I haven't done a full Train Link. But, during a show last weekend we built and ran V1.3 lashups with up to 3 engines all day in worst case conditions and they were rock solid. Better than V1.2.
Good luck
Austin Bill
Migh help to ensure you have a first class, clean signal on both the wireless and wired (track) links.
Make sure your CAB-2 batteries are in peak condition for the wireless link. And if possible put your engines and car on a test track.
If this works you can go to step two whatever that is.
I haven't done a full Train Link. But, during a show last weekend we built and ran V1.3 lashups with up to 3 engines all day in worst case conditions and they were rock solid. Better than V1.2.
Good luck
Austin Bill
Austin Bill, and Flemming, I was just playing with you guys with my comment about grudging. Forgive me for that. NOW, I have a layout 32 by 17, 5 level and am using the Cab 2 on 1.2, with the Legacy base set on 1.1, and this works super for lash ups. I did use Bob Bartezeks suggestion on the earth ground for the layout. After installing the earth ground plane, I have had almost no issues with lost bases. Maybe once in awhile, but for the most part, its a foolproof system. I use the cab 2 with 1.2, legacy base 1.1 as this allows super control of lash ups. I ventured all 4 of the CSX AC6000's and this is a super nice lash up. No signal loss, just 4 roarring engines!!!
Again, if I said anything that upset anyone, forgive me. We are in the hobby for fun and I sincerely wish all Lionel hobbiest could use this new system. It is the best way to operate our trains for fun, realism, and fellowship with our friends. Lets Enjoy the times.
Best Regards,
Leapin Larry
Again, if I said anything that upset anyone, forgive me. We are in the hobby for fun and I sincerely wish all Lionel hobbiest could use this new system. It is the best way to operate our trains for fun, realism, and fellowship with our friends. Lets Enjoy the times.
Best Regards,
Leapin Larry
DC Mike
An additonal thought. Occasionally I had V1.2 lashups do strange things.
I found that the new lashup worked --- if I first cleared out the old lashup for same TR number I was setting up -- AND -- also cleared out any other lashups (other TR#'s) that the engines had been assigned to in the past.
Not sure if this is neccessary for V1.2 or for V1.3. Maybe it was something else. But, it may be worth a try.
Austin Bill
An additonal thought. Occasionally I had V1.2 lashups do strange things.
I found that the new lashup worked --- if I first cleared out the old lashup for same TR number I was setting up -- AND -- also cleared out any other lashups (other TR#'s) that the engines had been assigned to in the past.
Not sure if this is neccessary for V1.2 or for V1.3. Maybe it was something else. But, it may be worth a try.
Austin Bill
Austin Bill,
Thanks for the responses. I have a pretty clean signal so I doubt that is the problem. I have also tried clearing previous lashups but that the problem persists. The problem seems to be that the system is reading the top speed of the non-powered diesel units to be zero. As I understand it, Legacy lashups set the top speed of the train to be the top speed of the slowest unit. I have my non-powered units programmed as engines so that the couplers and headlights will work correctly according to the direction of the train. If I specify them to be something other than engines, I don't get the speed limit problem but then lose control of the headlights, sounds (located in the non-powered B) and couplers.
Interestingly, the lashup works fine if I set it up in TMCC and control it with a CAB-1. The problem therefore seems to be how Legacy is interacting with this particular set.
I would be interested to see if this problem pops up on other trains made up of powered and non-powered units. The set I am using is an F-3 A-B-B-A combination. I have another set I can try (F-3 A-As, one powered one non-powered) but I need to dig it out.
Mike
Thanks for the responses. I have a pretty clean signal so I doubt that is the problem. I have also tried clearing previous lashups but that the problem persists. The problem seems to be that the system is reading the top speed of the non-powered diesel units to be zero. As I understand it, Legacy lashups set the top speed of the train to be the top speed of the slowest unit. I have my non-powered units programmed as engines so that the couplers and headlights will work correctly according to the direction of the train. If I specify them to be something other than engines, I don't get the speed limit problem but then lose control of the headlights, sounds (located in the non-powered B) and couplers.
Interestingly, the lashup works fine if I set it up in TMCC and control it with a CAB-1. The problem therefore seems to be how Legacy is interacting with this particular set.
I would be interested to see if this problem pops up on other trains made up of powered and non-powered units. The set I am using is an F-3 A-B-B-A combination. I have another set I can try (F-3 A-As, one powered one non-powered) but I need to dig it out.
Mike
Did you check these as individual engines? Do they have a speed limit on them as an individual engine? I didn't see if you did that or not. Worth a look although I'm not sure if it would carry over to a train build or not.
Hi Marty,
I went back and checked all the engines to see if any had speed limit activated. None did. A good thing to check but that's not the problem.
Thanks,
Mike
I went back and checked all the engines to see if any had speed limit activated. None did. A good thing to check but that's not the problem.
Thanks,
Mike
OK unless I missed something try this... Address the train say TR9. Do not push any other buttons. Down in the bottom right hand corner of the numeric keypad should be a high lighted speed limited icon. If it is hi lighted push it until it un-high lights. Then try again. I just noticed that I had that on one of my lashups but don't remember engaging it. Worth a try.
Building of what Marty said.
During our weekend club event the speed limit issue hit us a couple of times.
This with guys who have been using CAB-2's quite a while but first time with V1.3.
So, somehow or other they managed to hit a series of keystrokes that that set a speed limit.
How? I have no clue.
So, I second Marty's advice.
Austin Bill
During our weekend club event the speed limit issue hit us a couple of times.
This with guys who have been using CAB-2's quite a while but first time with V1.3.
So, somehow or other they managed to hit a series of keystrokes that that set a speed limit.
How? I have no clue.
So, I second Marty's advice.
Austin Bill
OK, problem is solved. I did two things. The first was that I noticed that the two non-powered units were showing as Legacy and RS5 rather than TMCC and RS for the operating and sound system. I had set them as TMCC when I first put them in the system. When I upgraded to Version 1.3 it seemed to have reset them to Legacy. After correcting that. I put each engine on the track individually and activated and then cleared the Speed Limit. Once that was done, I rebuilt the train. It now works fine. Given the quirks of the set, the diesel sounds work in conjunction with the train (start-up, shut-down, RPM) but I have to use Train Link to get to the whistle and bell, Tower Com and Crew Talk. (You may recall that in this set the sounds are located in the non-powered B unit rather than the lead engine.) I like having the diner separate from the engine Tower Com so that the two sets of sounds do not conflict with each other. Thanks to Austin Bill and MartyE for the help and suggestions.
Mike
Mike
Glad it works. I would probably address the dummy with the sounds the same as the engine just to make the sounds simple.
Mike, your welcome. This is a valuable lesson for me.
Austin Bill
Austin Bill
MartyE,
Duh -- why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the tip.
DC Mike
Duh -- why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the tip.
DC Mike
Look up 6-16886 in the product section of the Lionel web site. The manual for v1.3 can be download there. (manual looks the same to me)
(no price to buy the upgrade chip yet)
(no price to buy the upgrade chip yet)
quote:Originally posted by unixunix:
(no price to buy the upgrade chip yet)
It's free to registered users
I found my original stock antenna today while cleaning up and figured what the heck. I removed the Hawking antenna and installed the stock one. I tested it out and found I had just as good reception with it as the Hawking. I was able to walk around my finished basement, separated by my mechanical room from my layout and the K-Line Hudson the track worked perfectly
Thanks. Encouraging news. Appreciate your having tried it with just the stock antenna and letting us know how that worked. I hope to use it instead of the Hawking too. Is your stock underneath the layout?
It's just sitting on the side of the track
Anybody notice that the Route double digit addressing option is missing in the CTC options menu in V1.3? Page 71 of the V1.3 manual refers you to the CTC options menu on page 48 but the picture of the double digit addressing screen which was in the V1.2 manual is missing in that section of the manual. Its also missing on the Cab2.
My understanding is that all routes are now handled as double digit. It must be a typo or missed during the manual edit. I would forward this to Lionel. Maybe they can get that changed. See page 4 about all routes being double digit.
Thanks Marty for pointing that out as I did not see the note about all routes being double digit. BTW if anyone is using DZ2500s you have to program the Cab2 for your Routes before they will work with Legacy.
Been running 1.3 since York without incident.
My V1.3 range test at the TCA convention (National Capital Trackers layout) gave me a surprise on effective range for the Legacy base ...
I'm using a 6dBi omnidirectional antenna elevated to 6ft. on the Legacy base. (this antenna is one of the inexpensive models with a an extension cable designed for PCs equipped with a wireless card).
In one direction (towards or away from the MTH display if you are attending the convention), the effective range is 60 ft. which is expected based on previous experience. However, walking away from the base 90 degrees from the first test, I was almost to the far wall of the hall (150 ft away) when signal was lost.
I attribute the extended range to the shape of the ceiling plus a wall that probably reflected the signal in that direction. This also implies that the antenna may be radiating a significant amount of energy upward to be reflected off the ceiling.
Any signals engineers on the forum who can comment on this?
Regards,
John
I'm using a 6dBi omnidirectional antenna elevated to 6ft. on the Legacy base. (this antenna is one of the inexpensive models with a an extension cable designed for PCs equipped with a wireless card).
In one direction (towards or away from the MTH display if you are attending the convention), the effective range is 60 ft. which is expected based on previous experience. However, walking away from the base 90 degrees from the first test, I was almost to the far wall of the hall (150 ft away) when signal was lost.
I attribute the extended range to the shape of the ceiling plus a wall that probably reflected the signal in that direction. This also implies that the antenna may be radiating a significant amount of energy upward to be reflected off the ceiling.
Any signals engineers on the forum who can comment on this?
Regards,
John
Thanks for the good info, John. Similar to what I found and reported much earlier. Legacy worked at all corners of the building at about 100 plus feet with no Radio Link Warning Light.
I wouldn't be surprised at any results we're seeing for any given convention hall. As you know they can be and usually are a "dirty" environment for signal propagation. Sometimes bad power, sometimes bad grounds and usually lots of electronics to maybe interfere. These things can greatly alter the theoretical antenna pattern.
As for the antenna pattern. Who knows what's inside the plastic "wrapper" but if it's a pure monopole vertically oriented the pattern would look line a donut on a plate with the antenna sticking up in the middle. Not a lot of energy radiating vertically. But, that'just theory. Other objects like metallic structural poles and light fixtures etc. etc. can modify the pattern. That's how more complex antennas are constructed -- with active and passive components.
And then there's ground planes and reflecting planes. But, enough!
You know how we in the USAF used to reach England from New Foundland with radio gear? Troposcatter radio equipment. Bounced a highly directional signal at just the correct frequency off of the troposphere and back down to the UK.
So, if you have a stubborn, "metal head" in your club, use him or her to extend your CAB-2 range!!
Austin Bill
I wouldn't be surprised at any results we're seeing for any given convention hall. As you know they can be and usually are a "dirty" environment for signal propagation. Sometimes bad power, sometimes bad grounds and usually lots of electronics to maybe interfere. These things can greatly alter the theoretical antenna pattern.
As for the antenna pattern. Who knows what's inside the plastic "wrapper" but if it's a pure monopole vertically oriented the pattern would look line a donut on a plate with the antenna sticking up in the middle. Not a lot of energy radiating vertically. But, that'just theory. Other objects like metallic structural poles and light fixtures etc. etc. can modify the pattern. That's how more complex antennas are constructed -- with active and passive components.
And then there's ground planes and reflecting planes. But, enough!
You know how we in the USAF used to reach England from New Foundland with radio gear? Troposcatter radio equipment. Bounced a highly directional signal at just the correct frequency off of the troposphere and back down to the UK.
So, if you have a stubborn, "metal head" in your club, use him or her to extend your CAB-2 range!!
Austin Bill
It was installed on our modular layout with three mainlines and over 2000 ft of track. This previously was setup for TMCC. WE ran multiple trains under various conditions without any issues running TMCC and legacy engines. The stock antenna was used. Both the legacy remotes (Cab-2) and TMCC (Cab-1) remotes were used. Were using up to 5 at once.
http://www.fctt-hirailers.com/
Bill D
http://www.fctt-hirailers.com/
Bill D
I'm glad everyone is having good results so far. Hopefully the modules will get here for the rest of the user's and everyone can see the improvements!
Good video
So after he long non explanation of how he got the software makes me wonder who his dad's friend was that came to the Legacy Users Group meeting LOL
So after he long non explanation of how he got the software makes me wonder who his dad's friend was that came to the Legacy Users Group meeting LOL
Nice instructional video. He seems to understand Legacy quite well also. Looks like we will get to experience V1.3 very soon. Thanks to all who have made this upgrade possible. Looks like it will be well worth the wait.
Everyone have a great week.
Ken.
Everyone have a great week.
Ken.
Received v1.3 today. works great, have not used with diner car yet. chuffing is good. think it is ok, but all the hoopala overrated.
Bob once you start digging into it you will find out why its a huge improvement over 1.3
The engine queuing is really worth it
The engine queuing is really worth it
Got my upgrade today to V 1.3 and all I can say is WOW 
. This is OUTSTANDING. I put the original antenna back on the base and I can travel all over my basement area with NO signal lost. I have enjoyed playing with the new icons on the Cab2 for the crane boom car. This is so much better. I am going to set up my SP dinner car next. I really can see now how much better things are with V 1.3. You guy's who got them at York have really been having a great time. Thank you again Lionel.
. This is OUTSTANDING. I put the original antenna back on the base and I can travel all over my basement area with NO signal lost. I have enjoyed playing with the new icons on the Cab2 for the crane boom car. This is so much better. I am going to set up my SP dinner car next. I really can see now how much better things are with V 1.3. You guy's who got them at York have really been having a great time. Thank you again Lionel.quote:Thanks Marty for pointing that out as I did not see the note about all routes being double digit. BTW if anyone is using DZ2500s you have to program the Cab2 for your Routes before they will work with Legacy.
I did not have to do that with either version 1.0 or 1.2 so why did they make it complicated. I have four routes that control the switches on my Ross 4-way yard switch and am using DZ2500's with the data line driver. They are numbered 1 thru 4. So now you are telling me if I upgrade to version 1.3 I will have to reprogram them using double digits?
Got the 1.3 modules yesterday. Did not do anything with them yet.
I haven't seen the full potential yet but I loaded in the new version last night and I love the crane car icons and my signal does seem much better. 
Received the V1.3 Monday and placed it in the box with my unused, unread Legacy System, with I presume the V1.1 and V1.2 stuff in the initial package. It appears that I will be able to figure it out from all the information and free instruction on this thread. Up till now my decision/question has been one of selling the Legacy system or using it with whatever features are there with my herd of regular TMCC equipped engines. [Lionel is unlikely to make any Legacy-equipped[Vision] engines for the Southern Ry during my lifetime].
I have have recently dismantled two large layouts and now have a small, unfinished 9x16 attic round-the-room double main with Yard on one side and Village[planned]on the other with 16 total turnouts[Tortoise]mostly in the Yard and access via Barrett's "Drop Gate" entry. I am now in operation powered by PoHos/TPCs and controlled by Cab 1, enabling Conventional[Grand Daughters Thomas and Friends]and TMCC engines.
I have have recently dismantled two large layouts and now have a small, unfinished 9x16 attic round-the-room double main with Yard on one side and Village[planned]on the other with 16 total turnouts[Tortoise]mostly in the Yard and access via Barrett's "Drop Gate" entry. I am now in operation powered by PoHos/TPCs and controlled by Cab 1, enabling Conventional[Grand Daughters Thomas and Friends]and TMCC engines.
Dewey, Your finding about 1.3 is?
Chris
Earlier on in its release both Chuck[Plymouth,Mich.] and MartyE advised that the Legacy System would enhance many basic TMCC features via the Cab 2 operation. I had not thought about Legacy at all since then, busy fighting health problems, dismantling two layouts, trying to sell a seasonal home and trying to get a small, simple Condo [attic]layout built and operating. [Right now I am installing a Stair Lift on the 17 steps leading to our upstairs].
Thinking it over last night led me to conclude that when time allows I should read up on Legacy ask questions and figure out what to do to apply it and enhance TMCC operation. If that "enhancement" doesn't amount to much I will offer it for sale.
I bought the System from a local friend and Lionel Dealer["The Covered Wagon"]who was going out of the train business for health reasons.
Earlier on in its release both Chuck[Plymouth,Mich.] and MartyE advised that the Legacy System would enhance many basic TMCC features via the Cab 2 operation. I had not thought about Legacy at all since then, busy fighting health problems, dismantling two layouts, trying to sell a seasonal home and trying to get a small, simple Condo [attic]layout built and operating. [Right now I am installing a Stair Lift on the 17 steps leading to our upstairs].
Thinking it over last night led me to conclude that when time allows I should read up on Legacy ask questions and figure out what to do to apply it and enhance TMCC operation. If that "enhancement" doesn't amount to much I will offer it for sale.
I bought the System from a local friend and Lionel Dealer["The Covered Wagon"]who was going out of the train business for health reasons.
Dewey,
Many people report Legacy does make standard TMCC engines work better. Give it a try you might be pleasantly surprised
Many people report Legacy does make standard TMCC engines work better. Give it a try you might be pleasantly surprised
quote:Many people report Legacy does make standard TMCC engines work better. Give it a try you might be pleasantly surprised
I'll definately second this statement! All my Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotive models run MUCH better using Legacy.
Ver 1.3 is neat. I just created a "lashup" 
of the Legacy PRR M1b in the lead, followed by the Legacy PRR Heritage SC70ACe, followed by the Vision PRR CC2s. Wow! All ran well together, the CC2s drivers really cranking to keep up with the M1b. Speed synchronization was on the money.
Train Link worked great, enabling the ACe's and CC2s's sounds whenever I wanted. I kept the whistle with the M1b, it is just too awsome (especially compared to the CC2s's shrill whistle). Great smoke from all three.
Next I'll add the Vision PRR Cattle car and my PRR Railsonds caboose. Put Train Link to the test.
of the Legacy PRR M1b in the lead, followed by the Legacy PRR Heritage SC70ACe, followed by the Vision PRR CC2s. Wow! All ran well together, the CC2s drivers really cranking to keep up with the M1b. Speed synchronization was on the money.Train Link worked great, enabling the ACe's and CC2s's sounds whenever I wanted. I kept the whistle with the M1b, it is just too awsome (especially compared to the CC2s's shrill whistle). Great smoke from all three.
Next I'll add the Vision PRR Cattle car and my PRR Railsonds caboose. Put Train Link to the test.
