Programming Legacy A-A set as part of a "Train"

@Alec_6460 posted:

I have a recent Legacy E6 A-A set, both engines powered.   Programming it into Legacy as an individual engine is no problem; both As automatically respond to one engine ID and the rear unit seems to know it is reversed, etc.   But when I tried to include the engine ID assigned to the A-A set as the "engine" in a train with sound cars, it appears that both A units think they are the lead unit and want to go in opposite directions (which doesn't happen when they are operating as just an Engine with one ID).  Do I have to go back and assign a separate Engine ID to each A unit (ie., 12 for the lead unit and 13 for the trailing) and then lash them up as separate engines to use the Legacy train train link features?  Thanks.

When you consist the trailing unit, hit the direction button.

I believe and maybe @Dave Olson can confirm is once you enter it into a TR with other engines or TMCC cars, you must go back and give the engines unique IDs and build the train as you normally would.

What is the set #?

Thanks, Marty.  It is Lionel SKU 6-84641.  2017 catalogue.  

What you are saying makes sense.  I am guessing, but I figure that when the AA is paired together out of the box, you can address them in Legacy as a single engine with an engine ID (i.e., 12) and the trailing unit (#13 in this case) is automatically reversed, but that when you try to assign that one Engine ID to the Train, whatever logic makes the A-A work that way in Legacy gets "broken" somehow, and they are functioning as two individual engines with the same ID.    

Just to build on what Marty said.

I would program each unit with a separtate ID.  In this way you can run them as individuals or as an MU set using TR (train).  If you were to program them as ENG 10 and ENG 20, when you build your train, say 50, and add engines 10 and 20 observe the direction) they will run as a pair.  Once you shutdown TR 50.  Each engine can still be addressed as 10 or 20, unlike DCS where you delete the lashup to separate then add your individual engines as if they are new.

One other thing is to be sure they are running at very close to the same speed.  Check this by building your train but don't couple the engines together.  Run the train and see whether one is faster than the other.  If they are close make the faster one the lead engine.  In this way it is pulling the slower engine and the train otherwsie it is pushing the slower engine and pulling the train.  DO NOT create a train if there is a significant difference in engine speeds.  They will not play nice and someone is going to get hurt.

As Alec stated, Legacy engine sets, such as the E-6 AA set, are setup for each engine to have the same ID number (unlike TMCC sets).  It seems like the manual should address how to run the engines in a train with the sound cars.  When I get home I'll check my Centipedes manual.

Dan's comment on separate IDs so you can run them as separate engines makes since, which I have done with my TMCC sets.  See no reason not to set it up this way to see if it fixes your issue.

@CAPPilot posted:

As Alec stated, Legacy engine sets, such as the E-6 AA set, are setup for each engine to have the same ID number (unlike TMCC sets).  It seems like the manual should address how to run the engines in a train with the sound cars.  When I get home I'll check my Centipedes manual.

Dan's comment on separate IDs so you can run them as separate engines makes since, which I have done with my TMCC sets.  See no reason not to set it up this way to see if it fixes your issue.

I read the manual of some of the recent AA products that support the single ID to operate as an ENG.  None of them specify that you need to set discrete IDs to run them in a TR made up of additional TMCC engines or sound cars but since that is the way to build a train in any other case it makes sense they would need discrete IDs in this case.

I do not run my Centipedes as a train, or as in setting them up as a TR.  I used their engine number.

Did find this in my Centipede manual: "Your Vision Centipede AA set is designed to operate with both powered A units assigned to the same Engine ID#. So, for most operators creating a lash-up is not necessary. However, if for some reason you wish to operate your set as part of a lash-up, you must assign the two powered A units to unique engine IDs. When you add them to a train, make sure to define their forward and reverse orientations correctly."

I don't have sound cars, but it looks like if you want to have them as part of a train with the AA set, the AA set needs to be set up as a lash-up with separate engine numbers.

@CAPPilot posted:

I do not run my Centipedes as a train, or as in setting them up as a TR.  I used their engine number.

Did find this in my Centipede manual: "Your Vision Centipede AA set is designed to operate with both powered A units assigned to the same Engine ID#. So, for most operators creating a lash-up is not necessary. However, if for some reason you wish to operate your set as part of a lash-up, you must assign the two powered A units to unique engine IDs. When you add them to a train, make sure to define their forward and reverse orientations correctly."

I don't have sound cars, but it looks like if you want to have them as part of a train with the AA set, the AA set needs to be set up as a lash-up with separate engine numbers.

Thanks. I believe the manual I looked at said the same but didn't specifically say the engine set AA had to be given a unique ID to make it part of the train with other units such as a sound car or other additional engines.  Based on what I know about TRs, it only makes sense that they would need to be re-assigned unique IDs when added to a train that has additional units.

I think the OP knows how to set up a TRain under separate engine id's, but was just wondering out loud that if you can set up both A units with one engine ID and they automatically know which unit is to run forward and which in reverse and they run fine that way, then, when you add a third powered or sound B unit and build it as a TRain, why doesn't the system just remember the two A-A units under the previously assigned single engine ID number and let them run under the same reverse/forward scenario with just the B unit added, rather than having to now assign each A unit a separate ID number ?

I don't know the answer to that, other than that's just the way the system works, and just assume that as soon as you add a third component, you must then assign each a separate ID.

Even if you have a ABA set with a powered B unit you can still use the same engine ID # in all three units as long as you face the B unit so it starts up in the same direction as the lead A unit. I have no experience with Super Base B units but I would think you could also use the same engine ID in it. Since the super base B units are not powered they do not have to be placed on the track in any special direction. I do not know if super base units have any special functions that would require a unique engine ID.

I also assign all my TMCC AA sets with one engine ID number including my Century Club PRR Sharks where both units are powered and they perform correctly as far as start up direction, headlight and coupler action.

JohnB

Not sure, but I think the issue with the sound cars is that if you assign it the same ID number and then hit "crew talk" or the horn slider, for instance, you may get overlapping and/or disjointed sounds.

Most powered B units and several trailing A units in AA sets don't have sound.  If both units have sound, or all three like my E7 ABA consist, then all units will blast their horn if they have the same ID.  Opinions very on this, but I do not like that.  I like only the lead engine to blow the horn.  This is why I programmed  my Century Club PRR Sharks with different IDs.  (There is a downside to individual IDs - there are only 9 TR numbers for TMCC and if you have a lot of multi-unit engines you run out of them quickly.)

The only multi-unit sets where I have the same ID number in all units are my Legacy sets.  These are set up so there is no horn or bell except in the lead unit.

@CAPPilot posted:

Most powered B units and several trailing A units in AA sets don't have sound.  If both units have sound, or all three like my E7 ABA consist, then all units will blast their horn if they have the same ID.  Opinions very on this, but I do not like that.  I like only the lead engine to blow the horn.  This is why I programmed  my Century Club PRR Sharks with different IDs.  (There is a downside to individual IDs - there are only 9 TR numbers for TMCC and if you have a lot of multi-unit engines you run out of them quickly.)

I do like the sound of each A unit blowing together........to each his own it is nice to have options on setting them up

In some of the more recent Legacy releases (eg. Canadian Pacific FAs) there's a separate 'sound' switch (on each unit) under a roof hatch to enable the operator to either have sound on ALL of the units or only on the LEAD unit.

I should add that the same holds true for 'smoke.'  So for an ABBA consist you can either have ALL units smoke or just SOME of them.

@PH1975 posted:

I should add that the same holds true for 'smoke.'  So for an ABBA consist you can either have ALL units smoke or just SOME of them.

And couplers too!

Yep Marty, you're right on top of it!  It's kind of neat though, because if you just want to 'change it up' on any of the above features it just requires flipping a conveniently located switch.

@PH1975 posted:

In some of the more recent Legacy releases (eg. Canadian Pacific FAs) there's a separate 'sound' switch (on each unit) under a roof hatch to enable the operator to either have sound on ALL of the units or only on the LEAD unit.

Does that switch off all sound, or just the horn/bell? I would like if it was just the horn/bell so you still have prime mover sounds.

CAPPilot - In answer to your question the Manual states in part..."The other two switches are sound related.  "CREW" on/off enables or disables speech and "SIGNALS" enables or disables the bell and air horn sounds."  Otherwise I would've wasted a lot of money for my SuperBass 'B' unit.  (lol)

Incidentally, I run my ABA engine consist with just the lead powered 'A' unit having the bell and horn sounds on.

@PH1975 Thank you.