PRR Panhandle 2.0

Updated 11/29/2023:

It was a busy day.

First, I had a nice visit from my friend Mark Boyce today!  He got the nickle tour of the messy layout.

Also received my shipment of 3/8" Vinylbed replacement sub-roadbed.  Looks pretty good.

Did some work on the Weirton Steel Yard tracks.  As an ex-military friend of mine once advised "When the map and the terrain differ, believe the terrain."     Right now, I'm working on laying the track between from under the signal bridge (including Switch #35) to where it meets Switch #15 (just hidden under the highway overpass).  Below is the map, which says 2x O72 sections, a RH O72 switch (#35), and a short straight section will be required to meet up with Switch #15).  Ahem. 

Here's the terrain.  Reality says:  A cut O-80 GarGraves curved section, the O72 RH switch, and a somewhat longer piece of straight track will be needed to make it meet Switch #15.  Fortunately, I have what I need.

Of course, this scenario is much better than having the 2 separate segments too close to actually mate up.

As Roseanne Roseannadanna would say "It's always something!". 

More when I get this straightened out, i.e. know it. 

George

It was great to see you again George!  Seeing the layout was just icing on the cake.  Last time I was there, you had a couple of the open hearths on the workbench partially constructed.  Seeing them in the mill on the layout impresses just how large that building is and how unwieldy it was to lift and slide into place.  The blooming mill beside it makes for a large model.  The video of the real thing in operation really helped.  

As we discussed various projects of yours and mine present many unforeseen challenges.

Yes, “It’s always something!”

Meant to post this a couple of days ago.  My Vinylbed replacement subroadbed (3/8" thick) arrived.  Here's a look at the old (on the left) and the new (on the right).  Many thanks to GRJ for the tip.

I think it might be even better in deadening sound than the old stuff, but we'll see and report back at some point.

George

Updated 12/9/2023:

While some planning and acquisition of wood has taken place over the last week, not much physical building had gotten done.  That’s because I was a bit under the weather (not Covid).  Really haven’t been this sick in quite a while, but that's done.  And today I felt much more energized.  Items that showed up:

• Specially cut half-rounds and square boards for the Crawford Crossing overpass arrived earlier in the week.
• Plate girders sections from Scenic Express are also here now.

I decided to get some track laid in the area where the Weirton Steel Yard track joins the westbound mainline.  That's the area near the light green triangular access hatch.  Below is the plan.

Here's the actual area of interest.  The curved track in the foreground is the Eastbound Mainline.  The curved track behind it is the Westbound Mainline and the focus of our efforts this afternoon.  The straight track coming from the right is westbound exit from the Staging Area.  Note "4.2" written on the plywood indicating the location of drop 4.02 (District 4, drop #2) track feeder wire pair (Red / Black).

I used a hacksaw to get a GarGraves O80 curve to the proper size for the Westbound Mainline track.  Below, it meets up with the Weirton Steel Yard track courtesy of an RH O72 Ross turnout. The yard track has switches that access the Blooming Mill, Open Hearth, and Strip Steel mills.  It also connects to the Loads / Empties track.  A wye at the southern end of the yard track helps turn trains.

By the way, I found a very handy tool (got it quite awhile ago and used it in the construction of the Open Hearth).  It's a small electric drill made by Tamiya (#74041).  It's battery driven but has a surprising amount of torque and is very handy in tight places.  (I am not sponsored by anyone and I do not play a "train influencer" on YouTube ).

As Murphy's Law would have it, the O80 curve had a screw hole directly under the signal bridge (already firmly screwed down and wired ).  But I was able to use this drill to get through the Vinylbed and the plywood!  There's the hole in the photo below along with that terrific little tool. 

Between the O80 curve and turnout No. 35 is an isolation point between blocks (Block Break).  Fortunately, the Ross switch has all 3 legs electrically connected.  Note the center plastic pin.

Here's a bigger look at the blocks.

Below is the installed turnout (No. 35).  I used a wooden block and hammer to gently tap the track onto the pins.

More when I know it. 

George

Updated 12/09/2023 PM:

Managed to get a bit more track laid down tonight.  In the photo below, Switch No. 35 (RH O72) is at the left top, curved Switch No. 16 (RH O54/O31) leads into the Blooming Mill, and Switch No. 15 (LH O64) has just been installed at the bottom.

More when I know it. 

George

It looks great.  It can be hard to get track to fit together in tight spaces

@Mark Boyce posted:

It looks great.  It can be hard to get track to fit together in tight spaces

Thank you.  It was a very tight fit.  I managed without the use of fit-up connectors.

George

Updated 12/10/2023:

More track laying took place today (not sure I'm done yet).  I focused on the Eastbound Mainline.  One of the consequences of imperfect bench work (slightly mis-matched heights) is the creation of Shim City (say that fast 5 times after 1-2 adult beverages ).  But I did manage to keep the track level and super-elevate the outside rail. 

Here's a better look with the track down (or at least progressing).  I'm using some 14 awg wire for the super-elevation.

And I also did a little test fitting of the wye tracks south of the mills.

More when I know it. 

George

Hey George, it's lookin good. Lot of work buddy. How you doing Mark. I hope to get up there as well someday and check out this build. I actually worked in most of those buildings. I'm about to get into some track laying soon i hope and i'm sure i'm gonna encounter the world of fitter sections.  I picked up a track stretcher from china. It requires an I-beam and my F150. I don't know . Haven't read the instructions yet.  I'm trying to preplan some wiring so i can start ordering my wire and planning the runs. So, I'll be posting a lot of dumb questions on the electrical forum here.  I've been reading thru a lot of posts. Got some very sharp and helpful people on this site. Grateful for them.  I'll be interested in how that viny roadbed works out - esp for screw bite and sound. Ours is homasote. Who handles the vinyl stuff.   Hey Mark, have George bring you to Steubenville to see the real thing.  I think his looks better.  Piers are spot on.

Later George     

I had benchwork that didn’t match up and had to use shims too.  Now I feel better.  😄  

@TomSuperO George’s looks better because his is newer.  He definitely did his homework on the piers.  As close as it is, I have never been to Weirton or Steubenville!  🤷‍♂️

@Mark Boyce posted:

I had benchwork that didn’t match up and had to use shims too.  Now I feel better.  😄  

@TomSuperO George’s looks better because his is newer.  He definitely did his homework on the piers.  As close as it is, I have never been to Weirton or Steubenville!  🤷‍♂️

Dean Martin's hometown!

Ron

@PRRronbh posted:

Dean Martin's hometown!

Ron

Correct.  But Steubenville is also the home town of Jimmy the Greek, and Edwin Stanton, Lincoln's Secretary of War.

While we're on the theme of not quite matching up, I am looking at this eastbound mainline with some concern.    For some reason, its position is not quite lining up with the plan.  As a result, tomorrow I am going focus on connecting the WSX Yard track to the Open Hearth, installing the wye, and then connecting it to the Strip Steel spur, the Empties / Loads track, and then to Staging Area entrance track (near the green 8 in the diagram below).  Only then will I turn towards the left side of the diagram and wind around until I hit the eastbound mainline again.  This will allow me to properly anchor the Weirton Junction Yard and Standard Slag relative to the edge of the bench work.

"When the map and the terrain differ, believe the terrain."

I'm taking my own advice.  More when I know it. 

George

Mark, We'll have to get you down to the Weirton' Steub area to check out the bridge.

My great aunt knew Dean Martin when he was singing outside a local corner bar w a hat on the ground for change.  Jimmy the Greek wanted to marry my Mom.  Steub was known as little chicago.   It's a unique area.

What's a shim?   hehe

George, maybe we can use that chinese track stretcher to open the radius on that curve.

Because we're hand bending all of our radius track from the original 036, I know how to open it up if it was superO.  I believe you're using gargraves? Maybe it's similar and we could open it up enough to fit. Might work.

Tom   

Tom, the problem isn't the width of the curve.  That's fine at O64.  The issue is the curve's placement relative to the edge of the bench work.  But I will get that sorted out soon.

Yes, I am using GarGraves.  No, I'm not crazy enough to use Super-O and bend it myself. 

George

Updated 12/11/2023:

As I mentioned last night, I started working on the eastbound track entering the Staging Area.  That's shown in the plan below.  The thick green line running vertically is the backdrop divider showing the Weirton Steel blast furnaces.

The BB (Block Break) between Power Districts 7 (left) and 8 (right) has been installed.  Power/Ground feeder pair 7.14 as well as Switch #19 (a Ross LH O31) are also in place.  This was my first opportunity to try out the Vinylbed replacement stuff.  It's very nice.  It weighs a lot less than the Vinylbed and cuts very easily with box cutters.  I think it looks pretty good, too.

Here's the area with track and switch installed.

That's the Loads/Empties track diverging to the left off Switch #19.  The Staging Area is ahead on the straight leg.

More when I know it. 

George

@G3750 great progress. I am also using the vinyl bed-like product for the first time on my expansion portion. I am very pleased with the price and ease of use. Are you gluing it down then placing track? I have not glued mine down and have only screwed the track down through it holding it into place. My thinking is the glue from ballasting will help hold it some too??? Looking great!

Mike

@LT1Poncho posted:

@G3750 great progress. I am also using the vinyl bed-like product for the first time on my expansion portion. I am very pleased with the price and ease of use. Are you gluing it down then placing track? I have not glued mine down and have only screwed the track down through it holding it into place. My thinking is the glue from ballasting will help hold it some too??? Looking great!

Mike

Mike, I did apply a very small dab of wood glue to one of the sections.  The other is just being held down by the track screws.  With the Vinylbed, it was (will continue until the small portion remaining runs out) my practice to nail down the pieces using #18 x 3/4" wire nails.

I do expect the glue from ballasting will hold it down as well.  Thank you, I think it looks pretty good, too.

George

That roadbed does look good George. Keep us posted on how it is to work with.  Do curve sections come precut  at diff radii or is it a sheet that u have to cut the roadbed out.

Tom

You have to cut it to make it curve @TomSuperO but that's not hard. I've used it on my entire layout so far and I've really liked it. It helps with the sound. It comes coiled up but it flattens out nicely over a week or so. Obviously it flattens entirely once you put the track on it.

It's exciting to have all that track filling up this end of the layout! @G3750 how much of this track have you had on hand just waiting to be installed?

@TomSuperO posted:

That roadbed does look good George. Keep us posted on how it is to work with.  Do curve sections come precut  at diff radii or is it a sheet that u have to cut the roadbed out.

Tom

Tom, here's the old Vinylbed (darker stuff on the left) and the new stuff on the right.  It comes beveled in 4' strips.

George

@TomSuperO the stuff that I am using I can make curve without cutting for anything larger or equal to 072 curves. Smaller than that I have to cut it down the middle and then it curves very easily. Really nice material, and I agree with the other comments on sound deadening!

Mike

@BillYo414 posted:

You have to cut it to make it curve @TomSuperO but that's not hard. I've used it on my entire layout so far and I've really liked it. It helps with the sound. It comes coiled up but it flattens out nicely over a week or so. Obviously it flattens entirely once you put the track on it.

It's exciting to have all that track filling up this end of the layout! @G3750 how much of this track have you had on hand just waiting to be installed?

Bill, I have been accumulating track and switches for this section for about the last 3 years.  Over the past 5 years, there have been a few changes to the track plan.  The only significant change occurred last year when I decreased some of these mainline curves from O72 to O64.  That was done because my 3rd Rail Decapods will safely negotiate those curves and it gets me an extra foot of aisle space at the front of the layout.  I have no larger engines, nor any plans to acquire some.

George

@LT1Poncho posted:

@TomSuperO the stuff that I am using I can make curve without cutting for anything larger or equal to 072 curves. Smaller than that I have to cut it down the middle and then it curves very easily. Really nice material, and I agree with the other comments on sound deadening!

Mike

Mike and Bill,

Would you mind posting a photo or two on how you have cut this material for curves?

George

I don't have any photos on hand @G3750 but I mean the short of it is that I cut little slices out of it. The slices are triangles. My preference is to lay the stuff out under the track, use a staple gun to temporarily hold it in position, then cut the slices out of where it naturally wants to bunch up. Then screw the track down and remove the staples.

I can get some photos next time I lay track. Hopefully that is late December 25th or perhaps the 26th

@BillYo414 posted:

I don't have any photos on hand @G3750 but I mean the short of it is that I cut little slices out of it. The slices are triangles. My preference is to lay the stuff out under the track, use a staple gun to temporarily hold it in position, then cut the slices out of where it naturally wants to bunch up. Then screw the track down and remove the staples.

I can get some photos next time I lay track. Hopefully that is late December 25th or perhaps the 26th

Bill, don't go to any trouble.  I understand what you're doing.  That mirrored my thoughts.  I think Mike is slicing the material down the center line (like Midwest Cork beveled roadbed) and bending it that way.  I will give both approaches a try.

Thank you!

George

Updated 12/12/2023 AM:

Installed the Strip Steel loading spur this morning.  This track will extend into the building through the rightmost open bay.  I used a track with a notch cut in an outside rail.  At some point, I may use this rail to indicate the spur is occupied.  The photo on the left shows the area prior to the installation.  The right photo shows the completed spur.

More when I know it. 

George

Looks great, George!

@G3750 posted:

Mike and Bill,

Would you mind posting a photo or two on how you have cut this material for curves?

George

George, look at my photos. This is how I do it. The first photo shows 072 track curves on uncut roadbed. The other photos show 042 track with the roadbed cut down the middle allowing a much easier curve to be made out of roadbed. I followed this technique from a YouTube vid that I apologize I am not sure now which one! There are many showing this method.

Mike

@LT1Poncho posted:

George, look at my photos. This is how I do it. The first photo shows 072 track curves on uncut roadbed. The other photos show 042 track with the roadbed cut down the middle allowing a much easier curve to be made out of roadbed. I followed this technique from a YouTube vid that I apologize I am not sure now which one! There are many showing this method.

Mike

Very useful!  Thank you.

George

Trackwork is looking pretty good George.

Updated 12/14/2023:

Made a little more progress today.  In the photo below, one leg of the wye has been connected to the Staging Area entry track.  The O31 Wye is Switch #13.

Pressed into service a Curtis HiRail RH O31 turnout for Switch #14.  The short diverging spur off this switch will mate up to the 2-rail GarGraves track inside the Open Hearth using GarGraves 910-4 "fit-up" connectors.  That will allow it to be easily removed when the mill is moved.  By the way, all 3 legs of the Curtis turnout are electrically isolated, so I will need feeder pair on all of its sides.  A 3-rail switcher will use an idler car to reach into the mill to pull out ingot buggies.

Below is a slightly different view of the same area.  The short climb to the Open Hearth entry can be seen more clearly.  I am using shims under the subroadbed.  The track from the mainline is visible at the very bottom of the photo.

More when I know it. 

George

Are you going to build an idler car? or did you have one already?

@BillYo414 posted:

Are you going to build an idler car? or did you have one already?

Well, funny you should ask.    

You're just egging me on, aren't you? 

Actually, I have an Olde Huff N Puff shorty wooden flatcar that is a candidate for an idler car; I need to make the wood look like steel.  I can't post a picture of the prototype because I don't own the copyright, but it was a shorty flatcar with a ridged roof supported by thin pillars.  It's a nice side project, like my charging machine.  I hope to get to those sometime in the near future.

However, the current set of priorities are:

1. Lay all the track in the WSX yard.  Connect all wiring for power and switch machines.
2. Identify (not install) the positions of all signals, light towers, and the yard tower.
3. Lay all track for Weirton Junction.  Connect all wiring for power and switch machines.
4. Identify (not install) the positions of all signals and the Weirton Junction tower.
5. Run road locomotives over the mainline and switchers in the yard, correcting any track or electrical issues.
6. Identify the position of the small scene divider running between Weirton Junction and the City of Weirton.
7. Build the Crawford's Crossing highway overpass from the Staging Area divider to the intersection of County Road, Pennsylvania Avenue, and Main Street.

That's the current thinking.  More when I know it. 

George

@BillYo414 posted:

Are you going to build an idler car? or did you have one already?

Bill, I’m glad you are keeping George on the straight and narrow with your questions/suggestions; as if George needs any help since he keeps more task lists than any of us I have seen!  👍🏻👍🏻

@Mark Boyce posted:

Bill, I’m glad you are keeping George on the straight and narrow with your questions/suggestions; as if George needs any help since he keeps more task lists than any of us I have seen!  👍🏻👍🏻

Mark, Mark, Mark - you know my real hobby is making lists, right?      

George

@G3750 posted:

Mark, Mark, Mark - you know my real hobby is making lists, right?      

George

Yes indeed!! 

Updated 12/16/2023:

Worked on the spur from the WSX Yard to the Open Hearth.  This is not (correction) very long, but it does have a bit of elevation to it.  The mill entrance track sits 3/4" (3 s') above the level of the yard track.  I have done two things to help with this difference.

1. I shimmed the spur so that it leads up to the mill entrance
2. I shimmed part of the yard lead so that the difference in elevation is not so great.

Here's the first look at the area.  Initially, I was just going to use all shims to get the OH mill spur down to the yard lead.

Rethought that and decided to use some foam underlayment (about 1/4" thick).  This stuff is handy!  It comes in folded sections.  I've used it under a bunch of areas.  It's going to end up as the surface of the WSX yard as well.  I'll probably cover it with spackle, then paint, then ground foam and / or cinders.  Plug in some weeds and declare it a steel-flavored rail yard.

So I lifted the shims and styrofoam, applied wood glue to the bench work top, and put the styrofoam back down.  More glue holds the shims to the foam.  The Vinylbed replacement foam was cut to mate up with turnout (I love that I don't need switch pads with this stuff!) and glued in place.

The track is attached using GarGraves track pins and pigtails at the switch end.  The other end is secured with GarGraves "fit-up" connectors (910-4).

I am also working on elevating the Yard track a bit.  Here I've added some underlayment styrofoam beneath the gray subroadbed.  It's glued down with 1-2-3 blocks holding everything in place.

I will need to test (and possible adjust) the track by running cars over it.

More when I know it. 

George

I just don't have any prototypes to go off of haha @G3750 I tracked down a real life ingot buggy to measure (if they would ever email me back! ) but no idler cars. My plan is to modify an MTH scale test car. It might be a bit short compared to its real-life counterpart but it will work better with my tighter track plan.

Updated 12/17/2023:

Here's the latest look.  The Yard track is in place.  Tomorrow I will focus on the mainline just west of this area.

More when I know it. 

George