PRR Panhandle Division

Updated 12/2/2015:

Nothing photogenic, but I did work on a few things this evening:

• Once again checked the height measurements for the river module.
• Cut a 1"x4" board for the back of the new river module.
• Adjusted the height of the Hidden Passing Siding and tested it using the PRR M1a.  Tested it forwards & backwards - passed!
• Started installing an additional ground plane above the yard lead to the Hidden Storage Yard (but below the Hidden Passing Siding).  This will run all the way out to the Weirton Steel Yard to assist with a few low signal areas.
• Picked up some additional paint yesterday for the artist.

George

Updated 12/03/2015:

Didn't get a lot done last night.  However, I did continue the installation of the ground plane wire under the Hidden Passing Siding.  I also managed to organize some of the remaining work into sessions.  Making it bite-sized versus a huge list works a little better.

George

Updated 12/5/2015:

Completed a number of items today:

• Installed a WHITE ground plane wire from below the Hidden Passing Siding to Weirton Steel Yard.
• Replaced my surge protector with a power strip.  The combination of the new ground plane and surge protector has eliminated the flickering headlight (symptom of a weak TMCC signal) and rare slow-speed stalling events on the mainline and Hidden Passing Siding.  This is great news!
• I tested this with both my M1a Mountain and B6sb switcher.  Flawless!
• Verified the list of electrical and control wiring points for Eastern & Western bridge approaches; updated my documentation.

The Green and White wires can be seen under the M1a.

Here are the modifications to the power strips on the transformer cart.

Here is the ground plane wire as it snakes under Switch #12 in the Weirton Steel Yard.

George

Great George...but, I don't see the switcher???!!!

Don't be anti-switcher!

Nice that you are always making progress.

Tom

Tom,

I didn't intend to be anti-switcher .  It's just parked off camera.

I don't always make progress.  Sometimes I go backwards.

But today, I really did go forward.  I am super pumped about eliminating these TMCC problem areas.

Here are a few more photos of progress.  First, the artist made some headway on Backdrop #1.

And just for you, Tom, here is the switcher at rest on the mainline.

George

The backdrop looks pretty good.

Thanks for "throwing me a bone" with the switcher picture.

Keep an eye out for Winter edition of The Keystone which should be coming out very soon and let me know what you think.

Tom

Tom,

You're welcome.  I was really excited by the fact that I could actually run trains even if it was for just a few feet.  The TMCC installation (ERR components) in that B6sb is sweet - great sounds, smooth operation, great crawling speed.  I can't wait to run that little shifter in coal mine service.

I was wondering when The Keystone was going to appear.  I am keeping an eye out for it.

George

Updated 12/7/2015:

Didn't get any work done last night, but I did do some thinking about what I need.  Saw an advertisement for the Flipout Screwdriver.  Given all the cramped spaces I'm working in, this could be very useful.

http://www.lowes.com/Hand-Tool...-a465-32fb0bd922b5#!

Also need to pick up a piece of wood for the river surface module.

Will try to get to these items tonight.

George

Didn't get to anything tonight, but did power up the B6sb for a photo.

George

Updated 12/10/2015:

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.  I’ve been churning the calculation for the height of the river module over in my head and I can’t seem to get it right.  I've measured it at least 8 times and just can't seem to get everything to play out.  So, I am changing tactics.  I think the easiest thing to do:

1. Build the ribbing for the river module (2 long 1”x4” with 4-6 ribs between them) on a flat, level surface.  Do not install.
2. Determine the correct positions for the tracks as they exit the bridge (4.5” center rail to center rail).
3. Install the cleats for the bridge supports.
4. Install the backdrop.
5. Install the poplar bridge supports on the cleats and hang the bridge in place.  Support it for awhile until we are confident the bridge will stay in place.
6. Install electrical feeders, control wires, and fitter track.  Test the electrical connections.
7. Support the ribbing from the floor and install the river surface, glass river top, piers, pedestals, and bridge shoes.
8. Lift the now nearly complete river module into place, visually inspect the fit against the bridge (add shims if necessary), support, and screw into place.

That's the current state of confusion.  

George

Updated 12/12/2015:

The artist completed Backdrop #1, shown below.  This depicts the western end (Ohio) of the layout.

She then began work on Backdrop #2, which will go behind the western end of the bridge.

More when I know it.

George

Updated 12/17/2015:

• Last night the artist made more progress on Backdrop #2. She is almost done with that - maybe Saturday.
• I managed to assemble the ribbing for the River Module and prop it up under the site of the bridge.

Going to try to get the backdrops mounted over the weekend.

George

Updated 12/20/2015:

Once again, life got in the way of progress last weekend. Some minor items got done:

• The final measurements for Backdrop #1 were computed. A few minor cuts were made to the backdrop so that it would fit on the wall.
• Angle brackets were installed along the top outer edge of the layout. These will prevent the backdrop from falling between the layout and the room wall.
• Additional angle brackets and some paint were purchased.

I had planned to put at least 1 backdrop in place, but that fell through due to circumstances beyond my control.  I had carpel tunnel surgery on Monday (everything went well), but that has delayed backdrop installation for some time.  I will have to find some other lightweight items to work on in the mean time.

George

George,

  Glad your surgery went well. Take your time getting back to normal activities. 

  Merry Christmas! 

Tom 

Tom,

Thank you!  And congratulations on a wonderful article in The Keystone!  I just got my copy yesterday in the mail.  Loved it!

George

George,

  Thanks for the comments. I'm glad it came out so well.

Tom 

Updated 1/2/2016:

Happy New Year everyone! The PRR Panhandle is celebrating 2016 and the installation of two backdrops!!!

First, we put up Backdrop #1. This resides against the leftmost (western) side of the layout.

This was followed by Backdrop #2.

A mountain with tunnel will occupy the unpainted section.  Installing a backdrop(s) this way, after the construction of the layout benchwork is definitely not recommended.   This took about 3 hours of trial and error, fiddling and cutting, and pain.  It is not the most professional looking, but this is good practice for the next layout.  And, I think it does look pretty good!!!

Here is a better shot of the two backdrops.  Next steps will be centered on installing Backdrop #3 and getting the western track and roadbed back in place.

George

George,

   That looks pretty darn great. You should be very happy how it turned out.

    Can you clarify...Does that mean a mountain in the center (where the boards meet) goes all the way to the top of the unpainted portion? 

Tom

MNCW posted:

George,

   That looks pretty darn great. You should be very happy how it turned out.

    Can you clarify...Does that mean a mountain in the center (where the boards meet) goes all the way to the top of the unpainted portion? 

Tom

Thank you.  It's not perfect, but I also think it turned out well.

Exactly.  A mountain will occupy all the unpainted portions in the corner.

I plan to use some N scale high tension power line towers up there as well as smaller foliage to create a forced perspective.  Further down the mountain we will see the minehead for the tipple as well as deer, bears, hunters, maybe even a Sasquatch or Yeti!  Who knows?  "The truth is out there".

George

Updated 1/4/2015:

The next snipe hunt is for a few U shaped brackets to support Backdrop #3.  As you may recall, I need 5.5-6" between the backdrop and the rear wall for the Hidden Passing Siding.  My initial search didn't turn up anything useful, but I may be able to put together 2 angle brackets (as shown in the diagram) that might work.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks,

George

Take a look at ladder wall hooks and think about putting them on your wall upside down.  I think some can be found that are at least 6 inches wide and they provide a solid J shape.

Chuck

PRR1950 posted:

Take a look at ladder wall hooks and think about putting them on your wall upside down.  I think some can be found that are at least 6 inches wide and they provide a solid J shape.

Chuck

You know Chuck, that is the closest thing to what I'm looking for that I've seen.  Thanks!!! 

So far no luck, but I'll continue to search for them.

Thanks,

George

You could hang your backdrop from a shelf made from a 1"x6" (actually 5.5" wide).  You could then display some of your engines and cars on top.

Jan

Updated 1/9/2016:

"Several steps forward and one step backwards" would describe today's progress.

In the forward department, a smaller backdrop depicting sky (it will go behind and slightly above Backdrop #3) was painted by my artist friend. She also completed a section of Backdrop #2 that had been missed. Backdrops #1 and #2 were mounted last week. They look better and better to me.

A family friend (whose 3-rail layout I designed and am helping him build) came over and we started to play with the track geometry from where the two tracks will leave the western end of the bridge. The bridge is not yet in place, but we anchored the position of the track (4.5" center rail-to-center rail).

Things started getting complicated at that point. I thought I had a working plan for laying out the western mainline and attaching it to the coal mine spur, but it didn't come together. There is a mistake in the RR-Track plan; it may have been there for quite a while. I had the wrong length of straight track in front of the curved switch (No. 2). The real track (9.5&rdquo was shorter than the one on the track plan (15&rdquo. That is significant.

Here's what the track plan originally looked like:

There appear to be several track geometry options open to me. No matter what, the first step is to complete the mainline track from the northwest corner of the layout around to Switch No. 1.

I will need to adjust the length of the straight pieces in the mainline to make sure the mainline curve fits correctly on the table top. After that, playing with the length of the straight near the curved switch (No. 2) may give me a chance to mate the spur with Switch No. 1 without replacing the O42 curves.  I hope to keep the tipple tracks (north of Switch No. 2) intact.

Alternatively, I will look at using O31 curves in the coalmine spur and seeing what they do to the overall geometry.  Again, the idea is to not move the tipple tracks.

If those two alternatives fail, then we will adjust the tipple tracks and curved switch (No. 2) as needed. This is the least favorite option.

Here's the area as it stands after today's work:

This is the anchor point for the bridge tracks (4.5" center rail to center rail).

This is the mainline curve area. 

More when I know it.

George

Wow, the power notes on your drawing looks too complicated and I'm an EET.    I agree the track needs to be right, especially at that bridge.  Looking good!!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Wow, the power notes on your drawing looks too complicated and I'm an EET.    I agree the track needs to be right, especially at that bridge.  Looking good!!!

Mark, the power / ground notes are badly out of date.  The meanings of the numbers themselves have been revamped a number of times.  They are now 5 digits with the following notes:

Digit 1:  District (1-8)

Digit 2:  Transformer number (1-2)

Digit 3:  Tap (no longer relevant as I use PH180 watt bricks)

Digit 4:  Terminal Strip number (1-8); again this is redundant as it matches District

Digit 5:  Terminal Strip tap (1-12)

As for the track geometry, this will come.  I have an idea or two to try.

George

George,

Thanks for the description.  Well thought out.

I also like the wire ID's you have come up with, looks like a good system with needed information. One that I should be using as well, instead of my 1, 2, 3... wire numbering that usually doesn't mean much after I have slept.   

rtr12 posted:

I also like the wire ID's you have come up with, looks like a good system with needed information. One that I should be using as well, instead of my 1, 2, 3... wire numbering that usually doesn't mean much after I have slept.   

 

Well, I have to write down everything or I'll forget it.  And I have to label the wires because there are so many.

George

I certainly should have written mine down as well. When I was younger, I could wire a bunch of stuff and then draw it up later. Unfortunately, those days seem to be long passed. Now, I sometimes forget where the wire is going by the time I get half way down the layout with it (and the layout isn't big).   

Your wire ID's tell you right where the wire goes, to and from, and I think that is a very good idea. It's good to have a system like that. I am getting ready to make some changes, you have provided inspiration for me to do something like that here. I also liked your wire tags that you told me about earlier. Now I need to also get something going with those.

George,

   Looking at your backdrops, wouldn't it look better to have some portion of sky showing between backdrops #1 and #2? Just my two cents, but having a little sky showing and a mountain similar in height with those in the backdrop might blend in better.  Otherwise, your mountain would be close to touching your ceiling. 

  Tom 

Maybe, but they are in there.  They were an absolute major PITA to get in there and they are staying there!

It took my two boys, a friend, and myself to get them installed.  They're not coming out anytime soon.

George

rtr12 posted:

I certainly should have written mine down as well. When I was younger, I could wire a bunch of stuff and then draw it up later. Unfortunately, those days seem to be long passed. Now, I sometimes forget where the wire is going by the time I get half way down the layout with it (and the layout isn't big).   

Your wire ID's tell you right where the wire goes, to and from, and I think that is a very good idea. It's good to have a system like that. I am getting ready to make some changes, you have provided inspiration for me to do something like that here. I also liked your wire tags that you told me about earlier. Now I need to also get something going with those.

Thanks.  Let me give you another piece of advice.  Make sure the labels you buy for the wire tags are the permanent kind.  I didn't pay attention to that (heck, I didn't even know they made removable labels for file folders) when I bought the Avery labels that fit the plastic tags.  Sure enough, after I had gone to all that trouble, the labels started flaking off 5 years after they were installed.

Yeah, that was fun.   I've glued or taped labels that are accessible, but I'm not unbundling wires just to relabel them, given everything is working.  Boy, details really matter.

George

G3750 posted:

rtr12 posted:

I certainly should have written mine down as well. When I was younger, I could wire a bunch of stuff and then draw it up later. Unfortunately, those days seem to be long passed. Now, I sometimes forget where the wire is going by the time I get half way down the layout with it (and the layout isn't big).   

Your wire ID's tell you right where the wire goes, to and from, and I think that is a very good idea. It's good to have a system like that. I am getting ready to make some changes, you have provided inspiration for me to do something like that here. I also liked your wire tags that you told me about earlier. Now I need to also get something going with those.

Thanks.  Let me give you another piece of advice.  Make sure the labels you buy for the wire tags are the permanent kind.  I didn't pay attention to that (heck, I didn't even know they made removable labels for file folders) when I bought the Avery labels that fit the plastic tags.  Sure enough, after I had gone to all that trouble, the labels started flaking off 5 years after they were installed.

Yeah, that was fun.   I've glued or taped labels that are accessible, but I'm not unbundling wires just to relabel them, given everything is working.  Boy, details really matter.

George

Yes, Everywhere I have worked in electronics we have tagged in a way that they don't fall off.  The company where I work was bought by another in 2007.  About 3 years ago, I went to their original location and found they used Dymo labels to tag fiber optic patch cables.  Half the Dymo labels were lying on the floor; of course half the patch cables didn't have labels any more.  Sad.

Yes, thanks, also very good advice about the permanent labels.

As you and Mark say above, I have witnessed many poor tag jobs over the years in my working life (now over with thank goodness ). I know just what you two are talking about when finding the tags laying on the floor (or anywhere other than where they belong). There are many wire tags out there and many of them not so good for their intended purpose.

rtr12 posted:

Yes, thanks, also very good advice about the permanent labels.

As you and Mark say above, I have witnessed many poor tag jobs over the years in my working life (now over with thank goodness ). I know just what you two are talking about when finding the tags laying on the floor (or anywhere other than where they belong). There are many wire tags out there and many of them not so good for their intended purpose.

It's really surprising to me how hard it is to come up with a tag system that reliably, accurately, and durably indicates wires.  Even a Sharpie on a plastic tag fades or can be rubbed off.

George

Yes it is. It really is difficult, but it looks like you have a pretty good system worked out with both the tags and the wire ID's. I think yours would be hard to improve on.

I worked around similar stuff for 37 years and they were always looking for better (and cheaper) wire tags. They had the wire ID's down for their systems, but the tags were still either poor quality or expensive. Didn't seem to be a happy medium they could ever achieve.