PRR Panhandle Division

George,

   Very nice and extremely realistic looking.

 Tom 

Thank you, Tom!

Updated 9/1/2015:

The week has gotten off to a busy start.  I'm feeling pretty energized by the goal of getting the layout operational by Christmas for the grandson.

• Over the weekend, I applied Gesso to the piece of masonite that will be the river surface. 

• Yesterday, I roughed out the shorelines on the masonite.  I then visited the artist, bringing the masonite with me.  We discussed how the river should look, coloration, and the mating of the river to the backdrop.  Because of the difficulty in transporting 4' x 8' pieces of prepared masonite, all the painting will be done on location.
• Today, I visited several stores trying to get ideas for the bridge end piers (abutments).  I finally hit upon a design that resembles the prototype and disguises the real bridge supports.  This is the top view.  At the bottom of the abutments, pink foam will be used to slop the ground towards the river bank.

• I used 2 coupons from A.C. Moore to buy the 1/4" birch plywood that will be used to construct the abutments.

George

Impressive indeed.  It's bound to be the major focal point on your layout.

Not being picky, George, but you will turn those pedestals 90 degrees before you mount them permanently, right?

Bruce

Bruce, great catch!  That's exactly how it's done in the prototype.  In fact, I meant to turn them for the photo.

George

Whew!  Glad you hadn't glued them already. 

One of those PRR calendars picturing the bridge happened to find it's way north....now resides in a LHS with a $350 price tag, IIRC.  Being an avid key-stoner, it has tempted me on each visit.  I have to keep reminding myself that the train room has little room for wall hangings.

Bridges are another passion.  The new layout will hopefully give me room to build a few large ones.  A couple will definitely be needed to span the stairwell where this cheesy little Erector now sits.

Bruce

Bruce,

That is very pricey for that calendar.  I hope it has both the calendar parts and the accompanying letter.  I believe I picked up mine at York for $100 (not positive). 

Is that an old Zenith repairman's kit I spy with my little eye?

As for your Erector set bridge, I'm not in a position to cast stones.  My search for my bridge has taken years (at least 10) and all sorts of ideas for interim and temporary structures have passed through my head.  The original was a metal shelf created by a kitchen shelving company that moonlighted as a bridge maker.   After awhile, every time I ran a train across it, I held my breath.   Hey, your Erector Set bridge looks better than mine did!

George

Updated 9/3/2015:

I reworked my initial design of the Bridge End Piers (Abutments).  The enhanced drawing (and thinking) is below.

The extreme left-side bottom end of the bridge (below) is the part that will be supported by the Poplar Bridge Support.

OK, that's the current thinking.  Comments welcome!

George

Updated 9/7/2015:

There's an old army saying:  "When the map and the terrain differ, believe the terrain."

I say this because I have just completed my 3rd version of the bridge abutment design.  This time, I went back and carefully examined the current bench work.  Then I drew up the designs.  Basically, a lot of work needs to be done to the ends of the bench work.

Here's the western end (Steubenville, OH).  It needs:

• A cleat even with and at the very edge of the sub-roadbed.
• Leveling of tracks (rightmost track needs a shim).

This is the eastern end (Weirton, WV).  It needs:

• Relocation of the cleat so that it is even with the end of the sub-roadbed.
• Leveling of the sub-roadbed so that both tracks are level entering the bridge.

Once those items are corrected (and the backdrop has been installed), the installation of end piers (abutments) can begin.  Here's my (hopefully) final design. 

First, a top view.  The bridge is transparent here, depicted by the thick dotted line.

Next is a side view of the Western Bridge Abutment (Steubenville, OH).

And finally, here is a side view of the Eastern Bridge Abutment (Weirton, WV).

George

Updated 9/10/2015:

Some significant progress was made today:

• The glass for the surface of the Ohio was collected from the store.
• The artist delivered the masonite river surface and we test fit it in place.
• Adjustments (cuts) to the backdrop were made to correctly mate it to the river's surface.  I determined where the backdrop must be fastened to the benchwork to provide clearances.
• We roughed out where the river, land, and sky will be on the backdrop.  The artist started painting and made some progress.

Photos below:

Here's the backdrop (preliminary).

Surface of the Ohio River (with aquatex glass).

Surface of the Ohio with bridge piers (all test fits).

We are getting closer!!!! 

George

I never saw the Ohio that blue !!

Yeah, I think that had to do with the flash going off.  The river is not that blue in real life or on the layout. 

George

Updated 9/12/2015:

I made some more progress yesterday and today.

Yesterday, the parts for the bridge abutments (end piers) were cut.  A friend used his very nice Proxxon table saw to make some precision cuts.  Below are all the parts for 1 abutment.  Eventually, when the height of the river's surface is finalized, the abutment will be cut to the proper length (height).

As noted previously, the benchwork at each of the bridge approaches needs work.  Back in 2006 when I built these, I really wasn't sure how to attach a bridge.  Originally, I thought the bridge might lift out; that proved to be unrealistic.  Now, I have come to realize that the eastern approach does not have quite enough space to accommodate the diverging track to the Hidden Passing Siding, the backdrop, and the width of the bridge.  I am in the process of reworking that by adding a short straight section after the switch.  That will end up moving the siding back towards the wall (there is room).

George

Updated 9/15/2015:

• The realignment of the Hidden Passing Siding is turning out to be a bigger project than anticipated.  Had to adjust the adjustment, including the position of the switch to provide more clearance.  Also affected are two risers (upright supports) as well as the subroadbed for the siding.  Photos follow.

Had to lift up the roadbed to unscrew the wooden subroadbed and move it to the proper position.

This photo shows the new position of the subroadbed.  A small piece of wood will be glued into the 1" wide gap created by the change.

While I was back there, I took the opportunity to correct some of my preliminary wiring mistakes.  I replaced feeder wires jammed into the track joint with crimped male spade connectors forced into the track itself.  That creates a much more solid and trouble-free connector.  Hopefully, I'm not going to be back here any time soon. 

• The artist also made significant progress on the river surface.  It is much more gray than before (more realistic) and less ocean blue.

• The artist also started to fill in some of the landscape features for the backdrop that will go behind the bridge.  Fall foliage and details are still to be added, but I think it's starting to look pretty good.

Hopefully, we will see more progress tomorrow!

George

OK Jim, I had the artist make the river a bit more gray.  While the river has been cleaned up considerably since most of the steel mills closed, it is not that "ocean" blue.  And now it is more gray (life-like).

George

I was just kidding, of course. I wonder if the Ohio has ever been blue ??

I don't think so, but it looks better in this recent photo.  Blue gray, brown, but not a deep blue, at least not in the past 100 years or so.

George

I love what you've done so far and can't wait to see the finished product.  Keep up the great work.

Thank you!  We are getting closer to having the bridge in place.

George

Updated 9/16/2015:

We've made progress on several fronts.

First, the backdrop is coming along.  Clouds are still to be added, but I think it looks pretty good.  Some autumn colors have been added.

Next, I managed to get the Hidden Passing Siding re-aligned.  This involved changing 2 risers, moving the subroadbed, and re-laying about 6 feet of track.  I also wrapped the wiring bundle that hangs beneath it.  I went back to my documentation on the Pennsy Signal bridges and found where control rails and their wires (green wire) should go.  I will hook these up when the bridge is put in place.

Here's a close-up of the new, realigned siding.  It is towards the back of the photo.  In the foreground are the two tracks that will cross the bridge.  The green wire will connect the control rail (isolated section) to the Pennsy signal bridge that guards the eastern approach to the bridge (off camera to the right).

The last photo shows the I1s that I used to test the passing siding.  It is framed by the western Pennsy signal bridge.  The cleat that will be attached to the bridge is visible between the arms of the signal bridge.

More tomorrow (hopefully)!

George

George,

   Looking good. Glad you are moving along and thanks for the updates.

Tom Tom

You are going to put the bridge in one girder at a time like the original was installed aren't you ??  Looking good.

ROFLMAO.

Yeah, sure I am.

Uh, no.

The bridge is already built.  East Coast Enterprises built it.

As soon as I can get all the structural work done at the end points, I will install the bridge.  That's probably a couple of days work.

George

Updated 9/17/2015:

OK, more things got done today.

• The central backdrop has been declared done.  I think it looks pretty good.

• The wiring for the bridge got straightened out.  Originally, the bridge had a Curtis double cross-over.  As a result there were 10 additional wiring pairs along with the signal (isolated control) rails / wires for two Pennsy signal bridges (2 signals each).  That made for quite a mess under the temporary metal bridge.  All of that is gone now, replaced by a streamlined set of wires.  Only 1 control wire will need to be installed.

George

Updated 9/20/2015:

I guess we could call this episode "Trouble in Paradise".  It's not a big problem, just a delay. 

I expected some trouble with the eastern approach to the bridge.  That was dealt with earlier this week.  I am now confident that is resolved.

In looking at the western approach to the bridge, I discovered a few problems.

• First, one of the O54 curved sections was missing.  I had removed the old metal bridge about a year ago and had scattered pieces of track around the layout.  When I found the missing section, I realized that I had cut it.  It's not a full O54 curved piece.  So I am in the process of ordering a replacement.
• Second, the big curve around Steubenville needs some adjustment.  Way back when, someone gave me some advice about easements and suggested that the curve consist of two pieces of O63 at the beginning and end and two pieces of O54 in the middle (all GarGraves).  I had a minor track alignment issue with the old metal bridge, but there was enough play to make it work.  That's not the case with this new bridge.  So that must be corrected.  I am ordering 2 pieces of GarGraves O54 to fix the problem.
• Third, the above O63 / O54 problem will create an issue with the Coal Mine Spur and Switch No. 1.  I am anticipating having to re-align a significant portion of the subroadbed.

The problem area is shown below.

Like I said, it's not a show-stopper, but it will take some work to fix.

George

Updated 9/21/2015:

I've done some serious thinking about the problems discovered this weekend and I've come to a conclusion:  this is a good thing.

Building a model railroad is a journey of discovery.  You learn ways to do things and try them out.  Or you make decisions based on expediency and instant gratification (big mistake!).  Sometimes you have to re-learn those techniques or learn a new one that comes along that is clearly better.  This is a chance to correct past mistakes and make the western track work much stronger.  I've already re-done the eastern portion of the mainline (back in 2012 - has it been that long?).  

If I don't fix these now, they may continue to haunt me.  You can recover from a number of problems, but bad track work isn't one of those.  Over the next few years, I want the layout to run well and to be worth showing off to visitors (and my grandson).  I've been trying to get it to a state where I could have another Train Smoker (open house).  I think this is my chance to do it right and I'm going to take it.

George

Updated 9/25/2015:

The bridge is here!  The bridge is here!    Yes, the good news is that the bridge has finally made its journey to the basement and is now awaiting installation.

The bad news is that we need to fix some track / subroadbed sins of the past before we can install it. 

As I mentioned earlier this week, I thought we needed to adjust some of the trackwork leading up to the bridge.  I expected the adjustments to be minor.  It turned out (naturally!) to be more complicated.  In essence, I will be rebuilding about half of the western portion of the layout, including subroadbed, a few risers, a large curve, and repositioning Switch No. 1.

The affected area is shown below.

I  am not discouraged by this.  In fact, correcting these long dormant problems will make the layout much more robust and permit running trains at speed.

George

George.....I absolutely love this journey of yours.....it's be great fun watching your progress.

Peter

Thank you Peter!  I'm beginning to think it has much in common with the Exodus - a lot of wandering around lost in the desert. 

George

Updated 10/3/2015:

I could call this post "What Bad Track Work and Roadbed look like", but it would be too close to the truth for comfort. 

Anyway, the deconstruction of the Steubenville area continues.

See this?  Yeah, this.  Don't do it.    This curve was cut out of (roughly) 3/8" plywood.  It was so wobbly that I had to brace it underneath and install so many risers under it that it looked like a forest.  Definitely a bad decision.  Learn from it, please.  You need at least a 1/2" thick plywood (5-ply) sheet for subroadbed.

Ok, next step is to make a paper template of the table top (fit it around the existing loop), transfer it to the new 1/2" plywood sheet, double-check the measurements, and cut.

More later,

George

That's what makes model railroading challenging and fun

didn't someone say - "You learn by your mistakes".

Keep us posted on the progress

Yeah, well, that's enough fun for one day! 

George

George,

  Don't feel bad. We've all had issues like that pop up. You are doing a great job. 

Tom 

Hi George,

I had been following this thread for the last few months and last night I went back to the beginning of this thread and reread all the posts because I felt I was missing some of the reasons for the changes. 

Maybe a little context is needed, I grew up in Richmond, Ohio which is about 12 miles from Steubenville, Ohio.  My mother's family lived in Steubenville, while my dad's family lived in Mingo Junction and Brilliant.  I remember seeing the PRR bridge many times back then since it seemed like we were always going to Weirton for one thing or another and traveling across the now gone Fort Steuben bridge.

As a result, I have been interested in your layout since it relates to my youth also.  I remember going to see the General when it came to Steubenville, at the time I didn't really understand the significance of the engine.  Ah, to be young and dumb again.  I'm in my sixties now.  I was too short to get a good look at the department store train displays and I think the Western Auto store in Steubenville had trains way back then, too.  My sister worked at the "HUB" for a while after high school and my wife worked at the Isaly's store before we got married.  Interesting that today I can look back at that time period with nostalgia but I also remember that I couldn't wait to get away from there while growing up.

Okay, enough reminiscing, first, I want to commend you on your persistence and dedication to your layout and look forward to seeing the bridge in position and trains running.  Second, I do have a couple suggestions for your layout.  In the "updated 9/25/2015" post the last picture shows the hidden passing siding along the wall.  It may just be my old (no cataracts yet, thankfully) eyes, but the plywood roadbed appears to sag a little where it is unsupported by the riser in the middle. 

While that area is accessible, I think it would be a good idea to add some horizontal support under the roadbed.  I am thinking a 3/8 by 5/8 (3/4) inch or so solid piece of wood glued and screwed underneath both edges of the plywood roadbed.  This would provide some support for the flexible plywood, sort of the "L" girder concept in miniature. 

Poor attempt at illustration of what I mean.

XXX   <== current plywood roadbed

X  X    <== Added support

X  X

Also since you are rebuilding the Steubenville portion of the layout, I would recommend reworking the track plan so that the main line does not use the diverging portion of switch #1.  I had this situation on my old layout and it was less than satisfactory. 

Keep up the great work, looking forward to your next update.

Thanks Tom.  I don't feel too bad, really.  I was a real novice when I started on the layout (this is my first permanent layout).  Some of the sources I consulted were more about selling stuff or exposing someone to many techniques than they were about providing useful guidance.  I followed some of that "advice" and ended up in a few blind alleys.  I also just made some decisions based on instant gratification.

It is a journey.  Thanks for the encouragement.

George

Greg,

Well, it is a small world after all.  My father had an ex-Navy friend (machinist's mate) who lived in Richmond.  He had a small gas engine repair service.  As a boy, I can remember going to Richmond with Dad to get our old 2-stroke (rope starter) Lawnboy lawn mover repaired. 

I very much remember seeing The General when it was in Steubenville.  That was so cool.  My grandfather used to take me along to The Hub and S.S. Kresge's on the bus.  And I remember getting the Sears Christmas catalog and wearing it out before the holiday.  The Christmas train display I remember most vividly was in the Sears on 4th (now it's an electrical store).  Do you remember Spahn's Sweet Home Dairy?  They made the best milkshakes I've ever tasted!    Alas, now long gone.

Boy, there is nothing wrong with your eyes!  I took a good look at that section of Hidden Passing Siding, and you are absolutely right!  I am going to put another regular riser under there pronto.  That should fix that small sag.

As for Switch No. 1, I will probably leave that one alone.  Trains only move in a counter-clockwise direction and that makes No. 1 a trailing point switch.  It was made by Curtis HiRail; Frank Curtis turned out some real gems.  We'll watch that, but I'm not expecting any issues from it.

Thanks for the kind words about the layout. 

We're going to keep pushing forward.

George

George,

For your first permanent layout, you are doing a great job!  I just read an article that said we learn the most when we have to teach something.  I think by showing others here on the Forum what we are doing can fall into that same category.  I appreciate all you have posted and will continue to follow your topic.

George,

I am certain I was in that repair shop too.  The name "Motor Mac" comes to mind for some reason.  Richmond post office sits where the shop was located.  I seem to recall there was a fire that destroyed the shop.  My brother moved back to Richmond a few years ago and lives about a half mile from where the shop was located.

I understand your logic for leaving switch #1 alone, in my case trains traveled both directions and the switch was a GarGraves O-42 that was just so so.

Thank you, Mark!  My reason for documenting this journey (besides boring people to tears &nbsp ) was to remind myself of things that worked and didn't work.  God willing when we retire, there will be another, hopefully better version of the PRR Panhandle (probably back in Western PA somewhere).  And if someone else could benefit from these experiences, well that is just a bonus.

About 3 years ago, I designed a larger twice-around layout for a friend.  I am helping him build it.  Between his superior modeling and construction techniques and my visualization and planning skills, it's coming along very nicely.  But it sure would have been nice to have had that kind of help and guidance available back in 2005-6-7.

Anyway, thanks again for the encouragement.  I feel pretty energized by my progress so far.  Completing the western rebuild by York is my stretch goal.

George

Sounds like you are both benefiting from working with that friend.  I agree that making a record of what you are doing is helpful for you in the future and to everyone who reads it at any time.