PS 2.0 Upgrades

I called yesterday, the folks at the MTH RR Club had no information on the steam kits, apparently they're shipping the diesel kits.  Of course, I'm waiting on a steam kit...

I ordered two diesel upgrades so that must be it as I have a lot of older PS 1.0.  I also ordered steam kits but will have to wait.  Now I have to decide which units to upgrade as I learned after ordering that the units I intended to upgrade (DD40AX and UP Gas/Veranda Turbines) require two upgrade units each as they have two motors, which for the cost of the upgrade kits + install doesn't really make much sense.  Given that, let me throw this out, which MTH premier diesel engine would you upgrade if you have only two upgrade kits understanding that it is a somewhat subjective determiantion:

 

20-2185 - UP Veranda Turbine (requires two kits)

20-2178 - UP DDA40X (requires two kits)

20-2124 - UP Gas Turbine (requires two kits)

20-2177 - Southern F-3 ABA set (requires ??? kits)

20-5507 - NYC P-2 Box cab (requires ??? kits)

20-2154 - BNSF EMD SD-70 (probably one kit)

20-5501 - PRR GG-1 (probably two kits, but not sure)

 

A slave unit(s) would help expand the universe of options.  Can anyone provide the product cost and number so I can research.  I suspect the install cost is still incurred as it if were two units so the savings is primarily on hardware but could be wrong on that.

 

 

 

 

I received some PS2 upgrade kits last month. The upgrade kits aren't a factory made item rather the MTH techs make them up in house. 

FYI:

 

Each diesel upgrade kit can handle 2 motors.  The units that require 2 kits are the ones with 4 motors (usually 2 motors each in 2 units) like an A-A pair that are both powered.

 

Your Southern A-B-A has 2 powered units with 2 motors each, so 2 kits.

The GG1 requires only 1 kit, the Sd-70 needs one kit, the BoxCab needs one kit.

 

I hope this helps.

I wasn't aware they assembled those from parts.  I guess the delay is waiting for the PS/2 boards? 

Pat

 

very helpful, thanks.

 

Ed

I have been waiting for a steam kit since March, I was hoping I would get it this month.  At least the diesel guys will be happy.   Has MTH provided an ETIC for the steam kits?

 

 

 

ETIC= Estimated TIme in Commission  Old AF term not quite 100% perfect for this usage. 

It doesn't make much sense to me to be waiting on PS2 kits when MTH has been producing PS3 exclusively now for awhile. They should be selling PS3 kits only...

They don't have a PS/3 upgrade kit, so waiting for that could be a very long wait.  I suspect at some point in the future, that will be the upgrade path, but not yet.

I admit I don't know the intricacies of these systems but if they made the 5v PS2 set 'obsolete' with the 3v system, how soon will ANY PS2 components be obsolete if it's not being used in new production at all from now on?

A very long wait I suspect based on how MTH has done the PS-3 boards so far in that there are small but critical differences in the boards already from what I have seen. I am sure that they will eventually come up with a universal kit, but I don't see it happening before PS-3 has a couple of years in production.

Sam,  Why do you think you "need" a PS-3 upgrade kit?  Understanding the intricacies would help you assess the fit, form and function of what your asking for.

 

I believe some of the issues with getting PS-2 kits assembled has to do with rationing.  While replacement PS-2 boards are available, the harness for steam may not be, plus diverting manpower from other task to assemble the kits once all the parts are assembled.

 

The PS-3 kit will be interesting to see.  They are working on it, and I believe some folks are Beta testing one.  Remember that the PS-2 is a single loaction board unit with 10 pin harness for steam.  This limits the functions available on the engine when the boards are in the tender (harness doesn't have enough wires).  Production units use a MUX board to compensate for this.  Diesel is easy since everything is co-located.

 

For PS-3 Steam, it is two separate boards.  One in tender and one in boiler with an 8 pin draw bar.  Add the issue of changing out bulbs to LEDs and a Steam PS-3 upgrade kit is a little more complex.  So maybe you use the Diesel board for tender location, retain a harness and use some sort of adapter board to retain all your original lights and such.  Then there is the Tach reader.  The PS-3 is a much larger PCB, how do you mount it?

 

Now we are into a second level of marketing.  What are you upgrading?  Original PS-1 engines, or are you now trying to upgrade a PS-2?  If so, what for?  No battery? LED lights? More memory?  Is it cost effective?  I would be shocked if the PS-3 upgrade kit is the same price as the PS-2 kit.  Right now the easiest and most cost effective option for PS-2 repairs and upgrades is the PS-2 board replacement (3V or 5V connectors) and the PS-2 kit.  I still contend MTH is a train manufacturer not an aftermarket parts distributor, but that is their decision.  Yes at some point everything becomes obsolete, but by that time there will be plenty of used PS-3 engine on the market to replace the PS-1 or PS-2 engine that may be broken.  G

To me it makes sense if you want to upgrade and don't want to wait for a PS3 upgrade that won't come for an indeterminate amount of time.  It would be nice if MTH could tell us a month/year when they would be able to make them available but we have to go with what we know.  I don't know if I would go on any massive upgrade programs but that's just me.  I don't currently have any engines that I'm thinking of upgrading.

As I see it with the new PS3 kits, the diesel will be out first. They are easier to produce since they don't need a tether. They are still working on how to put the tether in so it's not so much work to get them in. If you look at a new steam engine with the new draw bar it would be a lot of work to get it in an old engine.

 

Ralph

So, getting back to one of the original questions, which diesel(s) would you upgrade if you had only two kits?

20-2185 - UP Veranda Turbine (requires two kits)

20-2178 - UP DDA40X (requires two kits)

20-2124 - UP Gas Turbine (requires two kits)

20-2177 - Southern F-3 ABA set (requires ??? kits)

20-5507 - NYC P-2 Box cab (requires ??? kits)

20-2154 - BNSF EMD SD-70 (probably one kit)

20-5501 - PRR GG-1 (probably two kits, but not sure)

 

Your SD70, GG1,Box cab will only require one kit each. The ABA set I would get a slave kit. Unless you want to run them as two seperate engines but then you would have to run them in a lash up.

 

The DDA40x only needs one kit. It only has two motors. The two tubines I would also get a slave kit for them. Never did any of those yet.

 

In the end its your descision. Which ones do you like the most?

 

Ralph

MTH will sell slave boards only to techs and dealers.  Or so they told me

Didn't realize the complications you guys have pointed out with the tethers.

When was PS3 first used in the HO steamers? I noticed in another thread that the K4 & Mikado came out back in 2006. Are they PS3? If so, I guess they have two separate boards then as mentioned by GGG above. Too bad this technology hasn't become more widespread in 3Rail O by now.

How many PS3 steamers have been released? The Empire State Express 4-4-0 was the first I gather. Is the new Blue Goose only the second?

 

My apologies for sidetracking the original topic somewhat... I'll post my questions in a separate thread.

Thanks to all for your comments.

I just had a coal turbine upgraded and the MTH tech used to diesel master kits so he didn't have to fab the harness mess.

They are set up to run as a lash-up.

The F-3 ABA takes the combined upgrade kit which has a master and a slave kit.

The DDA40X only required the one diesel master kit, same with the GG1.