PS2 Engine Wont Run (whistle blows Continuously)==Bad Transformer Controller

m, I would check the easy stuff first: the battery in the tender.  When you power up in neutral and the sounds begin, turn the power off, if the engine sounds (idle, bell, whistle etc.) do not continue for 5 to 8 seconds then the battery most likely need to be charged.  Charging can be accomplished either by powering up the loco and let it sit there for 6 to 8 hrs. or if the engine has a charging port (early PS2 locos did not have this port) either under or above the tender you can use the MTH battery charger adapter.  If the battery is a 9v (8.4v) type, you might also be able to remove the battery and re-charge in a standard ni-cad/nimh battery wall charger.  Once you get a charge in the battery, you can see if the battery is still good enough to hold the charge.  If the battery does not hold the charge, either replace with a new battery or follow the forum S.O.P. and replace the battery with a BCR.  Good luck.

Keystone;  I think the battery is OK.  Sounds continue normally after I power down the unit.  I have another PS1 engine so I am familar with the power down cycle, and this seems to be occuring normally...

Got a lighted car you can place t on the track along with the engine... I'd also try a Lionel  post war transformer.... KW. 1033  whatever..

I've tried with a lighted set of passenger cars.  Same behaviour.  The only transformers I have on hand are CW-80 and the Z-750.  I wonder if I could try at LHS...

I accidentally ran a PS2 loco with a CW80 once but it didnt hurt anything it just whistled constantly.  I then switched to the z-750 and had no problems after that.  You might want to try a factory reset:

1 Whistle, 5 Bells (from Neutral only)

Thanks Will.  I've tried to do the reset, but it doesn't seem to take.  One thing I am wondering about is if the buttons (Direction, Whistle, Bell) are somehow "reversed".  If I hold the Direction button down, it silences the whistle...

-m

The direction button opens the circuit so that is why the whistle stops.  Do you have another train to try with the Z-750?  I think one gentleman had a defective controller.

It would be best to try another transformer and then go from there.  G

Take the shell off and see if it still does it. I'm thinking one of the motor leads or motor terminal is touching the metal body and sending a DC offset to the circuit board.

You said other engines run fine with the Z-750.  So if you put a known-good engine on the track AT THE SAME TIME as the suspect engine, do the whistles on BOTH engines fire by themselves?

Another 1 minute experiment.  If you swap the red/black wires from the Z-750 to the lockon, does the whistle still go off or does something else happen...such as the Bell goes off.

I assume you already tried the ideas mentioned in the other threads - particularly about fiddling with the tether cable and/or opening the shell as Chuck suggests to confirm wiring.

I missed the part about other trains working fine with your transformer.  The next issue to check is what Chuck said.  Sometimes stray motor leads cause this problem.  The other issue is dirty wheels and center rail pickups, but that tends to be sporadic sounding of the whistle.  G

Ok I tried some of your suggestions:

1) Switch the red and black contacts: Similar behavior except now the bell rings continuously rather than the whistle.

2) Remove the shell of tender and Engine: no change in behavior.  No obvious visible loose wires or contacts.  The smoke unit had 4 wicks in it which seemed excessive to me...

3) Place a known good engine on the track at the same time:  I used my PS1 engine for this and Both engines start up normally.  No continuous whistle or bell.  Both engines run normally!  but as soon as I turn off the power to the block the PS1 (known good) engine is on, the Whistle on the other one comes back on and it behaves as before (non-responsive!)  So it only works when another engine is also on the tracks!?  I have tried lighted passenger cars also, but it does not work with them.  I am confounded.

-m 

This would point to a transformer issue.

I think your next step is to see if the engine behaves this way on another Z-750 or another higher end transformer if you can get access to one.  Perhaps wishful thinking but you really want it to be a controller/xfmr issue since you can get a Z-750 controller for a lot less than repairing a PS2 board - seems there was a issue just recently where a repair shop charged $30 or so just to look at a problem PS2 engine.

As an aside, if you are willing to try your DC measurement experiment again, I'd start with no load on the track and confirm 0 DC offset, then add the suspect engine (that created the ~5V DC offset), then add the lighted cars and measure the DC.  Then add the PS1 engine.  I believe the lighted cars will drop the ~5V DC offset but perhaps not as much as the PS1 engine does.  Again, this is out of idle curiosity.

Also, with the PS1 engine powered, it sounds like you might be able to perform the feature reset on the J using the WBBBBB button sequence.  I don't think this will change anything but it can't hurt.

The next step I would try is unplugging the smoke unit and see what happens,

3) Place a known good engine on the track at the same time:  I used my PS1 engine for this and Both engines start up normally.  No continuous whistle or bell.  Both engines run normally!  but as soon as I turn off the power to the block the PS1 (known good) engine is on, the Whistle on the other one comes back on and it behaves as before (non-responsive!)  So it only works when another engine is also on the tracks!?  I have tried lighted passenger cars also, but it does not work with them.  I am confounded.

Seems a load on the track fixes the problem. Why the lighted pass cars don't  work is beyond me.? I'd still try a post war Lionel transformer.

From my early  proto-1 days I had one engine that required a 300 OHM resistor across the center rail pick up and chassis to prevent the constant horn blowing.( resistor got warm but not hot). Fixed the problem.

This one is perplexing.  If the engine is the source of the issue why does changing the transformer leads move the engine from whistle to bell.  If the transformer is the issue, that makes sense.  But the tranformer doesn't put a DC offset on the rails unless the PS-2 engine is on the track.

Testing wise I would want to run the PS-2 on another transformer and/or power another PS-2 enigne with your Z-750.

Things to do and check are: Clean wheels and pickups, check for nicked motor wire insulation any where the wires run near the frame.  Check battery leads for same.

Try turning smoke off, though you may have to unplug as Chuck mentioned.

G

You really need to try a different battery(or new) and eliminate the battery as the problem as Keystone suggested earlier. Heck, even remove(disconnect) the battery and see if the horn still blasts continuously .

Gregg;

I did try removing the battery and reseating it, but I did not run the engine _without_ the  battery.  Can I do that without harming the board?

I've also done all of this trouble shooting with the smoke turned off (or turned all the way down).  I have not tried physically disconnecting the smoke unit yet.

I don't have any other PS2 engines, but I might be able to take it to LHS and see if they will let me test on a different transformer there...

-m

 It's  not going to hurt anything, just don't let the battery connector touch anything. Trying to find out  if the annoying constant horn blowing goes away.

Why don't you just try a new or different battery? taking it the LHS is a good idea.hang in there, you'll get to the bottom of it.

Some further experiments:

1) removed battery.  No change.

2) Disconnected smoke unit. No change.

Also forgot to mention that I did successfully do the reset (1W + 5B) when I had it working with the other engine on the line.  This did not change it's "solo" behavior however...

Next up:  try a bigger passenger (lighted car) load instead of another engine on the same line.  Try different transformer (will have to go to LHS for that ....)

-m

I have determined a load of 6 lighted cars works also (instead of another engine...)  I guess this engine doesn't want to carry frieght

-m

A while back there was a discussion about how some unbalanced load on an accessory car triggered the whistle on a conventional engine.  I think it had just a single diode (not a bridge) driving a relatively high-current motor(?) and somehow the transformer controller didn't like this asymmetrical load and put a DC offset on the track.  I probably have the details all wrong but your problem reminds me of that.

I fiddled with a Z-750 controller and put a 1 Amp unbalanced load on it to see how much offset I could induce on the track but only got about 1/2 Volt in each direction (reversing the single diode).  That is I was wondering whether a faulty diode or some other kind of error causing an unbalanced load in the J was upsetting the Z-750. The other observation is I only get about + or - 3.5 Volts of DC offset on the track when pressing the White or Yellow buttons.  Nothing like the 5 Volts of DC you are seeing with NO buttons pressed!

morglum s,

    As Rob indicated it sounds like a transformer problem.  Pick up a good KW or ZW

transformer, get rid of the little problematic transformers and try running your engine with the proven KW or ZW and see it your problems go away.  I also recommend replacing your batteries in your P2 Engines with BCR.

PCRR/Dave

I wonder if those lighted cars have diodes by any chance for dropping voltage?  They could cause an unbalance in the DC offset enough to start the whistle or bell.

Easy test, see if a bunch of freight cars also causes the issue, or it's just the lighted passenger cars.

I picked up another transformer (Z-1000) from a forum member and lo and behold the engine now works fine, with or without a load.  Trying different brick/controller permutations I narrowed it down to the original controller for the Z-750.   The brick from that unit seems to work fine with the newer controller, and the brick from the 1000 produces the continuos whistle with the Z-750 controller.  

Anyway thanks for the help and suggestions you guys.  It's great to have such a knowledgeable and helpful group!

-m

Thank you for following up and updating the title.  I'm sure history will repeat itself and this will save someone a lot of time sometime down the road...

m,

   You just experienced why I recommend the higher quality transformers,

your Z 1000 should now run your layout with few if any problems.  To many times

the smaller transformers are the actual cause of repetative problems that should really not happen.  Glad the Z 1000 cleared up your problems, some day you might consider a Z4K with the side receiver, it opens some interesting control features

and powers everything quite well.

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

I am sure this has been debated here many times over the years, and I am not sure if there is a "correct" answer. But speaking for myself, I always felt that I was better of, financially and volt/amp wise, to purchase 4 Z1k transformers for about 260 to 270 dollars and have 400 watts, than to spend - what-$400 to get the Z4K and only have two throttles.

It is probably debatable, but that was my thought at the time. Plus, I could spread out the purchases, instead of one big outlay.

I am sure there are other sides to contribute. Greg

Greg,

   Got no kick with that technique, each to his own.  I know runners with several

Z1000 and they are good transformers, the Z750 was made for smaller layouts however and can cause problems on their own, as this particular one did, and if

a new runner does not consider his transformer the problem, it can become very frustrating.

PCRR/Dave

PW ZW can be picked up for under $150 if you watch.  You might have to replace a cord or the carbon rollers, but that is about it.  I got mine with shipping for $120 and all it had was one frozen roller.  10 amp fuses between the transformer and TIU if you have one or the track if you dont and a ZW will be more than enough power for years to come.  I will probably pick up another ZW in the next couple months.

I bought all my PowerHouse 180 transformers for $70-80, so if you're running command, they seem to be the best bang for the buck.  That means I get 360 watts for $150, vs. the actual 220W or so real output from a PW-ZW.

Obviously, if you're running conventional and don't have a TIU or Lionel TPC/PowerMaster, you might consider a different option.

Another PW transformer that's a real bargain is the KW, I routinely buy these for $40-50 shipped, and with about $10 worth of parts and an hour on the bench, they're ready for years of use.

The faulty controller was shown to be probematic even with the Z-1000 brick. So maybe not a hard and fast rule with the smaller transformers, other than running out of capacity earlier in one's expansion plans.

---PCJ

The Z750 or Z1000 bricks are just basic transformers, and they shouldn't give you any trouble.  It's the characteristics of the controllers that are usually the issue with these units.