PS2 Upgrade Loses Address on Power Off

Are you shutting down the engine on the DCS remote and letting it go all the way silent before cutting the power?

Chuck, testing a battery with a multimeter is worthless if not tested under load.  Unless a battery has an internal disconnect, it will usually show close to its rated voltage.

If you have loco making noise and cut all power to the track, sound should stay on for 8 or so seconds if battery is good.

RJR,  He did swap batteries with another engine and both worked in that engine and neither work on the offending one.  I do think it is a board problem, since he has normal shutdown sounds and the harness has not been extended.  I certainly would try a reload of the sound file first, but sounds like memory isn't transferring after shutdown.  G

Hi All,

Paul - Yes. Shut down, allow to play the shutdown sounds, shut down remote, shut down Z4000.

G - I reloaded the sound file.  Initially received error message: "The selected sound file type 3V O/G in not compatible with the engine type (5V)." I closed the loader, restarted it and selected the same sound file and was able load the file normally. On attempting to add the engine I received an "ENGINE ERROR" message. Powered off and tried again, was able to add the engine to address #2. When turning off power then powering back up the problem continues, however.

RJR - Batteries (both of them) worked correctly on another engine and a full 11 seconds of shutdown sounds play when I turn off power to idling engine.

I have another upgrade kit enroute that I ordered last week. I'll swap the board with this one and send this one and if that fixes the problem I'll send this one in for repair.

Chuck

Chuck

GGG, I had that happen with a brand-new factory-PS2 loco.

Chuck:  Problem is that MTH doesn't warrant upgrade boards unless installed by a dealer.  I assume that they will repair one.  I suggest you carefully check all wiring to make sure there are no pinholes in insulation, and all connections correct.

SOunds like you have a wrong sound file; 5v boards need 5v files.  Won't take 3v files

Hi RJR,

Everything checks OK.

This is definitely a 3V kit - (blue AA-size battery pack) so this seems to be another symptom of something bad on the board. The sound file installed with no errors on the 2nd try.

I would call ahead before sending in.  I am not aware of repair MTH will do other than say you need a new board.

What would be interesting is to swap a different power supply board on to the bottom board.  See if that resolves the issue.  Since you have good battery shutdown I don't think it will, but worth the try.  I have a feeling they will say you need a new processor board (bottom board).  That is $120 MSRP.

Chuck, sorry.  I misread the post regarding the type of board and nature of the message.

I wonder if a tech who has the MTH test kit could ascertain and repair the problem for less than a board replacement.

That would probably be a big "maybe".  It really depends on what has failed, and if it can be located.  I think the idea of swapping in the two individual boards, one at a time, was a good one.  That way you'd be sure of which board it was, and if it still has the issue, you'd know to look elsewhere, though I don't know where.

I can certainly look at it, the issue is I know what most of the chips do on the 2 boards.  Since the battery circuit is working fine, I think the PS is good, but always worth swapping out.  If it is the processor board, I think it is a processor or memory and those are not replaceable.  A close inspection might find a burnt trace or component, but that is a long shot too.  MTH would send the board out for refurb back to factory.  G

Does MTH actually refurb the boards?

I had a similar problem and it turned out I had added it to TIU 1 and was trying to address it on track served by TIU 2.

As Barry has indicated this is a known bug being addressed in the to-come update to the software.

Actually, I think your issue was different from what we are seeing here.  G

Yes they have at times.  G

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your helpful comments. It certainly looks like the problem is a board component. I swapped the complete PS2 CPU (both boards) from the old engine to the new one. (I can live without the old one for awhile and the new one is much nicer!) I was able to load the sound file, edit the address and name, and add the engine to both remotes with no problems.

I'll take a look at the problem boards when I get some time and post my observations.

Thanks again,

Chuck

You can test the 3V boards one at a time and narrow it down to the board, though I think George is right, it's probably the processor board.

Stan,

On which board is the chip you're looking at located? I can at least give it a good visual check under a magnifier and see if anything looks out of whack. I have another board with a fried sound chip. Is there a chance that the memory chip is on a different board than the sound components? Note, all the other functionality -- all lights, sound, reversing, smoke are functioning. The only problem is that the configuration info (address, name, sound and light settings) will not save when the power is turned off.

Chuck

If you have one with a bad sound chip, why not get that replaced, that one is pretty easy to put on.  The memory and processor chips take a lot more effort, not to mention that I believe the processor is not available.

Stan,  Yes I meant not replaceable in an easy manner.  MTH doesn't do it. They don't stock that part, though I am sure you may find it.  I assume the factory that makes the board would be able to remove and replace as they do for MTH, but that is a whole other issue.

I have successfully removed a memory chip, so I guess that could always be attempted.  The processors would be a much harder because of the 4 sides with legs.

Parts reliability is the other issue when you buy off ebay, does the replacement work, etc...

Of course it could be a burned internal trace or some other issue.  So how many hours do you put into it before the cost of a new board is less.

Chuck, I do component repairs on the boards and as John said the audio amp is a common repairable issue.  Much better to fix that one than go after a memory or processor issue.

I have put in countless hours trying to trace and fix small issues with boards, never able to figure it out other than a processor or memory failure.  At some point the cost in labor exceeds the replacement.  As a hobby it is fine to a point, but after a while you figure you have better things to do with your time.

I hate throwing out electronic boards and I probably fix 80-90 percent, but I have this small box of boards that really can't be fixed and some times an issue is minor.  G

G, understood.  Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response.

Chuck, as G says, "some times an issue is minor."  That got me thinking.  Your board set may have suitable functionality for a Conventional control operator.  And if I understand the address setting problem, it may be suitably functional for a Command operator with the DCS Remote Commander as your engine is apparently stuck at the factory-reset/default DCS address.  I realize these two scenarios don't apply to you but I'm thinking Lemon and Lemonade...

A useful thing to do with the dead boards is save them for possible parts donor for another board. 

Stan,  Your welcome, I tend to be more practice about certain items from a customer repair perspective.  I am batting about .975 on power supply boards.  I have isolated all the battery control functions, power sources and even the likely capacitor failure.  The processor I have found is much harder and every so often there is an internal trace short that takes out the 5VDC or the 3.3VDC circuit that renders repairs hopeless.  I pull all the chips and still have a ground. 

John,  I do save them, and every once in a while my addiction comes back and I stick my hand in that box and pull one out and try to fix it:-)  The processor I have that won't run the battery boost/buck circuit correctly and drags down the 5V circuit so audio plays at only about 50% is one of them.  Unfortunately it overloads the small FET that regulates battery charging so after a few minutes it eats a power supply board.

I guess if I could find a fancy chip removal station really cheap it might be worth it, but when I looked at some of the prices for that type of equipment, it really isn't worth the investment for me.  G

I've pretty much decided that anything more than about 20 or so pins on an SMT chip is non repairable for me.   I've replaced much larger ones, but the work involved is not worth it as a rule nowadays.  We're a throw-away society...