PS3 loco stuck in Neutral

Check that the tether is fully plugged in. Try running in conventional.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Check that the tether is fully plugged in. Try running in conventional.

Thanks for your reply Engineer-joe.  I unplugged and fully re-plugged the draw-bar tether and the loco continues to remain in neutral.  I was never able to successfully setup a conventional operating mode on my DCS layout, so I will need to route some wires directly from a z-4000 layout transformer to a unused piece of track and give conventional mode a try.  What should I be looking for .... improper operation = need for repair?

Thanks, Tom

Can you hook up wires to a piece of track, and perform a conventional reset of the engine with the Z4000 using one horn and five bell presses?

It maybe locked in neutral if it got scrambled. That is if it got power and lost it over and over in a very short period of time. That can be from dirty track, and or pick-up rollers, or crossing bad track sections like uneven switch frogs, etc.

 There maybe wires inside that have come loose or are grounding to the frame.

By running in conventional, you're trying to narrow down where the problem is. If the board lost connection to the tach, etc. If a MTH command board set puts out power to the engine and does not get the reply from the tach it expects, it can shut down. Sometimes that means there's just a wire or tether problem. However sometimes there's a short and continuously applying power could fry the board set.

 There's always recommendations of watching the power meter for unusual power draws in that case. You posted that it just sits there do I can only guess that it lost connection to the tether, or is not getting the proper response. That can come from thrown traction tires, binding, etc. If it was a short, something might have fried by now. Many PS3 steam engines (if not all?) have a separate boiler board that handles the tach. If the main board in the tender and the boiler board loose connection, the engine can't run. I am not a tech, and I'm just guessing on many of these statements. I just have experience from working on my MTH engines. I have installed a few board sets and have gained info from what goes wrong.

 Anytime there's a problem, it's good to realize what can happen if you just keep powering up a problem engine.

For PS-3, if power is to the unit and tender starts that does not mean engine is.  The tender board controls all the tender features and tells the engine board what to do.  So is the engine lights on, does the smoke unit work and can you control those engine functions?  If so the tender is communicating to the engine.  IF not, then the problem is the engine board or the connection between the two as Joe mentioned.

The engine stopping on its own, does not sound like a lock in neutral.  Rather some other issue such as tether, data connection, motor, or the boiler board.  How about linkage, is it binding?  G

Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions; I went through the following steps (but the loco still will not move)  .... 

Examined the functions on the loco (& tender) - all of the sounds are functioning properly, the loco lights work, the backup light comes on in reverse (off in neutral and forward) and the loco produces smoke.  I wonder given that the backup light comes on in reverse, does this mean that the loco is not locked in neutral?  I tried to control functions specific to the engine and couldn't really tell if the smoke volume went from max to min.  Turning off the "ditch" lights had no effect on the Pennsy K-4s, but maybe function is only for diesels. 

I carefully checked the connections on both ends of the tether draw bar and they are fully seated.  I also sprayed some electrical contact cleaner on the pins.  And, the wiring on the loco end of the draw bar seems okay.

The linkage is not binding.

I placed the loco on a track in the conventional mode and tried to implement the (1) horn and (5) bell commands, but I couldn't get the loco to signal back that it had accepted the reset command.

So based on the above, should I try something else or send the Pennsy K-4s to a tech for repair?

thanks,

Tom Jasper

The engine should reply that it got the reset command. So...

can you try again with solid presses of the horn and bell spaced evenly? don't put the voltage up full!

Engineer-Joe posted:

The engine should reply that it got the reset command. So...

can you try again with solid presses of the horn and bell spaced evenly? don't put the voltage up full!

Engineer-joe,

I gave it several more tries and recorded a couple of them.  Please have a look at the attached video and let me know if you see something that I am doing incorrectly.  thanks,

Tom

?

Sorry engineer-joe ... had a few false starts creating a reply and including video.  It seems the message is now complete with video.  Appreciate any further feedback you may have.  thanks, Tom

Nope. Sure seems right. I had my brand new CR SD80MAC somehow get locked into reverse after leading a mixed consist with PS2 engines. I remember struggling to get it to reset. I think it took several attempts. When I was ready to quit I heard the 2 toots!

 For some reason, when they get scrambled, they don't reset easily. She might need a soundset reload??

Or wait for a tech Like G to comment.

I think you may have a hardware problem.  So it needs to go to a tech.  I do not think this is a locked in neutral issue.  G

Tom,

Need the product #, it may help.  Sounds like it needs to go to a tech.  The tech can test the PS3 boards independently if he has a PS3 test assembly.  If the boards are good, it may be the tether wire, where the drawbar connects to the engine.  The pins/wires may not be correctly seated in the connector housing.  This happens, it is not uncommon.  Get it to a tech for testing.

bruce

Tom,

I would try tapping the transformer bell and whistle buttons  faster to see if the conventional reset takes place. It seems to me you were taking at least 6 seconds in your video when you need to take only 3 seconds. I would try it again. You could also try it on one of your other engines to see if you got it right.

Joe is right, the timing is pretty critical on the reset sequence.  I normally have to do it several times to get it right, I guess I don't practice enough.

Tom Jasper posted:

...

The linkage is not binding.

Does this mean you removed the locomotive shell and hand-rotated the motor flywheel both CW and CCW?

If the shell is off, confirm the connections (no broken solder joints, loose connector, etc.) of the 2 motor wires to the connector that plugs into the tiny locomotive board.

If you're ready to take it in, then fine.  Please post back when you get it back.

OTOH if you're interested in DIY diagnostic troubleshooting if only to learn more about how it all works, I'd take a DC voltmeter and measure the voltage at the motor terminals when commanded to any non-zero speed in fwd and rev.

If you can visually inspect the tiny board - or take a clear close-up and post it - look for any blackened or cracked/damaged components.  Not conclusive but would be tell-tale indicator that you need to take it in.

I know the older PS2 boards would fry if the wheels would bind up, but doesn't the newer PS3 engines have protection and shut down if there is binding and wheel lock up? The reason I ask this, wouldn't Tom's engine just shut down when he would try to pull out if it was bound up? A friend of mine purchased a new RailKing steamer that was binding and stopping dead at slow speeds. When it did, it would shut down. I was surprised the board didn't cook.

I can tell you for sure that the old 5V boards will fry if you have a motor stall!  I've gotten several for repair that happened to, and it happened to me once, threw a traction tire and jammed the truck, five seconds later the board was toast!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Joe is right, the timing is pretty critical on the reset sequence.  I normally have to do it several times to get it right, I guess I don't practice enough.

Remember the old Power Programmer?  I bought one when I started getting PS1 engines.  It was/is a very useful device.  It automatically simulates sending the bell and whistle combos to the engine to do a specific task.  Wonder if there's one that would simulate what it takes to use conventional controls to reset a PS3 engine?

- walt

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I can tell you for sure that the old 5V boards will fry if you have a motor stall!  I've gotten several for repair that happened to, and it happened to me once, threw a traction tire and jammed the truck, five seconds later the board was toast!

Gee, I wonder if that's why my TMCC 2-8-0 never ran properly. When I first got it and tried it, it ran a few inches then bound up tight: I immediately shut down then found some pieces of the broken magnetic fly wheel ring that caused the engine to bind, as these pieces were stuck to the metal wheels and side rods...is that possible that the board got fried when the binding occurred? After I cleared those away, the loco just never did run "as advertised".

I love a good mystery! 

Mark in Oregon

Well, if the Odyssey ring shatters, occasionally it damages something when the pieces are flying around.  I've opened them up and found parts (normally capacitors) ripped right off a board from the flying debris from the ring.  If that sucker is spinning at full speed, there's a lot of force to throw those pieces.  Normally, what happens is the ring becomes unglued, and when it starts to get cocked, it gets unbalanced and shatters.  Of course, when it comes unglued, the Odyssey stops working, and the motor goes full throttle, insuring maximum possible damage.

Wow, isn't that something. 

Since my engine was bought second-hand off eBay, who knows why or when that could have happened...sorry for the thread drift. 

Mark in Oregon