Pullman Std C&O/D&RGW/D&H

Bill,
Regarding the roofs: (and thanks for clearing that up. I looked up roves in the dictionary and there is such a word but it made no sense in relation to model trains.)

Golden Gate Depot just delivered the PRR P70far coaches with the arch roofs. I asked Scott Mann to have extra roofs made and he did. I took 22 of them to a 2 rail show in Strasburg, PA, this past Saturday and sold 16 of them at $15 each. My point is that no one balked at the price. When GGD did the heavyweight coaches years ago I sold over 200 extra roofs at shows over the course of a few years. I don't think your price of $20-25 per is out of line.

I can provide you additional info if you want. I have purchased from you and am on your mailing list. Also, your attorney  friend LS in Portland has my phone number as we talk frequently.

R. Heil

Ken is a nice guy.  His dream is to bring these kits back, and that is not a very practicable dream if he wants any kind of return on his investment.

My friend Henry Pearce was a lot like that - for him it was the challenge of getting every fixture just exactly right, and as a consequence he never really shipped enough stuff to offset his costs.

It is a hobby - some folks acquire a product line, and dream.  That should be ok.

Opinion.

Balk?  Not at that price - cheaper than the wood stock roof sections from Northeastern that you's have to finish......except that Northeastern doesn't even make this roof.....  I'm surprised that you had any left over at all at that price. 

$20-25 is still not unreasonable for a good, straight, ready to use roof. 

BTW, I also offered to help do castings a long time ago and never got a response - basically read Bill's post on casting.  My costs are a little different - different resin and RTV, but +/- an insignificant number, and get about the same number of pours per mold.

And, the last set of castings I did for someone was on the OGR forum that when it came time to pay the bill, evaporated......got 16 passenger car ends sitting in a box....  So, I'm not all that eager any more to be all that helpful doing resin castings.

After reading some of the comments posted here I understand why Atlas shut down their. forum.  I have been here two weeks and already bashed for trying to be helpful and honest.  Please take your EX-LAX attitudes and talk with someone who cares.

FYI..........roves is what spell check does to the plural of roof............also, at the end of January I was rushed to the hospital for the first time since birth, spent 8 days there(3 days in Coronary Care ICU) due to an adverse reaction to the morphine they gave me for a 10mm kidney stone,  almost was carried out, lost 32 lbs in less than 30 days..........since then I have been talking to custom builders, getting some quotes, trying to figure he best way to keep from investing another 5 figures without putting more money down the drain.  Oh yes........all while working at the job that pays the bills. 

Looks like Union Station Products has now added an O scale passenger car core kit which includes a roof for $40.

http://unionstationproducts.com/_ck01.html

Ken

Okay, this may be a 2-rail sin, but with regard to passenger car interiors, has anyone considered the possibility of using transparent holographic window inserts? CAD drawings utilizing known floor plans (http://illinoisharvest.grainge...archtype=all&p=3)  could be used. Insert passengers as needed, or maybe even yourself. I know some passenger cars have really great interiors, requiring lots of time or $$$, but this could be an interesting way to do something a little different.

Now that I've touched a match to this powder keg, I'll sit back and see what happens.

I started a new thread on this, just in case it gets crazy: https://ogrforum.com/t...aphic-window-inserts

That is what they had on their table at Chicago in March - basically a 1 piece flat wrapper for the entire car that got rolled over the ribs of a car core.

Same question I had - how hard to roll and keep aligned correctly.  Still waiting from mine to arrive,

Martin,

The USPS is having difficulty locating Ma-phoor hence the delivery delay.

Really?

I mean how can you miss the huge Rose-Red City Half as Old as Time Itself????

Ok, it was hard to get deliveries to Tanelorn and that summer place in Barsoom was just impossible...............

B-C Models can be made to look quite good with a wood roof.  How difficult would it be to have a good molding shop set up to make such a roof?  I have done it with a table saw, but it requires plane work and finishing when done like that.

The one on the left is a Speer one-piece aluminum extrusion; the one on the right is a wood-roof B-C kit.

Not hard, but you'll end up paying for the cutter.  Take a roof section down to a real lumber yard that actually cuts molding and ask.  Might be educational,

Might lso be worth asking Northeastern about what it might cost for a run of O scale streamline arch roof in O; someone used to cut those roof sections......

Someone cut the odd clerestory roof sections for the LWS MP54 kits out of poplar; not pine or basswood -  you can get this stuff done.

Ted Brebeck of OK Streamliners said he could make these with the Kasiner extrusions or smoothsided PS extrusions. He sent me a pdf of his 2011 catalog and a 2015 catalog, which he has granted permission for posting on this site. The 2015 catalog is in a MS Publishing format, which I cannot open. I don't know if the two catalogs are different.

I think that the Kasiner extrusion is for MKT lightweights and the corrugated stainless fascia does not match that of the C&O/D&RGW/D&H. I'm leaning toward the smoothsided PS extrusion and then adding the fascia separately. I asked Mr. Brebeck about the car ends and he said they are made of metal, not plastic, which must make his the only O-scale aluminum streamliners that have this feature.

The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Volume 15, Western Railroads, has 3/4-views, interior photos, floor plan drawings (1:48 scale with dimensions), and dimensionless side view sketches of all of the 1950's D&RGW Royal Gorge PS equipment, almost all of which was sold to the D&H in 1967. Now, I need to get dimensions for window and door placement so I can create side view drawings for Mr. Brebeck to use.

The Kasiners are spot-on, unlike the plastic overlays.  Sanding off the upper flutes would be truly trivial in comparison to the labor of gluing on a plastic overlay on the bottom, and there would be no glue joint to fail when the paint shrinks.

Can you elaborate on your spot-on comment?  Compared to what plastic overlays? Paint shrinks and glue joints fail?  Not sure I understand.

Might be real educational. If you have a lumber yard that actually does any mill work, it is a rarity. The BIG BOXES have put most of them under.

I am shipping the streamlined roofs for the American Lightweight cars.  Extruded plastic.  Pics are on another topic for me.

$14 a roof plus $5 shipping for the first roof and $1 for each additional roof.  Order ten and get free shipping.

Thanks for converting the file, Dave. Also, I think I'll pay by check.

Okay, so I just checked again with Ok Streamliners and they confirmed that there is no Kasiner extrusion stock left. Ted Brebeck did suggest that old K-Line extrusion would work if I could find it. So, if anyone is looking to unload some Kasiner or K-Line extrusion, please let me know.

Also, thanks for the input from the plastic train guys who are contributing to this thread. I think the best "finished" passenger cars end up as hybrids of metal exteriors and plastic interiors.

There was an article years ago about using half rounds to make the proper fluting for streamlined cars.  Union Stations work is very interesting.  You should look into the military airplane model sites as they are using paints that can copy any metal finish you want.  I'm amazed at the work they are doing and am going to try some polished metalizer type paints this winter on plastic sides for the stainless steel look.

like this?

I've seen Mac Shop interiors done the same way, even with lighting attached.

What was the thickness of the sides on the C&O car sides from USP?

Thanks,

Can you elaborate on your spot-on comment?  Compared to what plastic overlays? Paint shrinks and glue joints fail?  Not sure I understand.

Sure, Dave. If you glue a plastic set of flutes on a metal side, the bottom of the flutes will be elevated.  The real thing has the bottom of the flutes at the same level as the windows.  (That is not true for the SP cars - their flutes are inside the level of the windows.). Of course you could glue each flute individually.  I would go nuts doing that.

There may be a good glue that will hold plastic to aluminum, but I do not know what it is. I have plenty of trouble with Walthers steel sides glued to wood.  If you know of a good glue, let us all know.  I am currently looking for an adhesive that will stick fabric to fabric, and hold it in a 220 hp. slipstream.

Hi Bob

I'm not sure if it will help in this case, but I've had success with glueing different materials together using CA, but preparing the surfaces with Loctite 770.  It's a polyolefin primer.

The downside is that it sets up very quickly - I mean very quickly.  You need to offer the surfaces up very accurately first time.

For what it's worth.

Cheers

Thanks Max.

I was having trouble getting a bond with plastic gears on steel axles - a Loctite rep got me some really special primer.

We wound up knurling axles - nothing would glue those gears to metal.  

I have tried the best aircraft adhesives I could get my hands on - I think I will wind up sewing the fabric before gluing.  On these Walthers coaches I have been using Pliobond, but Martin says a drop of CA turns the Pliobond into really good glue.

One of the problems with these C&O cars will be the different thermal expansion between aluminum and plastic.  A year worth of daily temperature changes will probably result in a broken bond.  Not so plastic to plastic, so Ken's cars will stay glued, if you can handle the different height of the flute bottoms.  And remember, the C&O flutes/corrugations are like Kasiner, not like the plastic stuff.  You can see the difference.

USP sides are 0.03 inches. Same thickness as the ALW sides. I believe the USP website says other thicknesses can be ordered if desired.

Ken

Think I'll order one to see how it builds. Delta models has the interior details.

I ordered the side kit (4140A) and the core kit (CK02) for a Pullman 10-6 sleeper for Seaboard yesterday.  Haven't gotten an email saying when/if it has shipped but it shouldn't be long.

Now to find some trucks!!!

I have placed an order with OK Streamliners for 2 coaches (PS plan 7600), one baggage (PS plan 7609), one Baggage/RPO (PS plan 7603), one diner (PS plan 7608), and one Lunch Counter Buffet Lounge (PS plan 7596A). The Kasiner or ribbed PS streamliners are no longer available, so I ordered all smoothsided cars: the ribbed stainless steel fascia can be applied over the car body when everything else is finished, or at the very least, painted on. I placed the order without trucks and couplers, which lowers the cost per kit by $25. Also, when you order 5 kits, the 6th is free.

Now, I need to find some GSC 41-N-11 CIB trucks. Wasatch Model Company makes a very nice 41N truck, but I think it may be for Proto48 gauge and not O-gauge, so I may be out of luck. Precision Scale may have a 41-N-11 truck as well. If anyone knows whether these are Proto48 or O-gauge, please let me know. Also, I'm concerned that these trucks may only have an 8.5' wheelbase instead of the 9' wheelbase shown in the Pulman Standard Library drawings. I made a quick scale drawing of 8.5' vs. 9' wheelbases and the difference is noticeable. I also need to source some Scalecoat paint in D&H colors.

Does anyone have any coupler recommendations?

In addition to the D&RGW equipment in 1967, the D&H also acquired four ACF 62-seat coaches built to PS plan #W47733 in 1970. The two builders' equipment were used together, with the D&H's older passenger equipment until at least 1977. Once the D&RGW equipment is finished, I may give the ACF cars a try, along with those cool Budd-built domes.

Check ebay, Bill from American Models has them there for $95 a pair.   Also their are two American Lightweight kits on there that someone can buy and use as a base kit for USP sides. The kits include the AL streamline plastic trucks. I don't know who is selling them.

My Wasatch trucks are all 5' gauge, with relatively wide tread.  I use dummies on all my passenger cars, because I am not into complicated switching moves.  I put Protocraft on the rear car, and occasionally a Kadee on one end of the baggage car, although a Kadee on the locomotive will generally auto-couple with a dummy.

Check with Jack McGarry here:

http://alleghenyscale.com/

Bob,

Are your Wasatch trucks 8.5' or 9' wheelbase? Are they the 41N model? The 41N's on eBay are really sweet and are a good match for the 41-N-11's shown with the D&RGW equipment in The Pullman Standard Library.

Dummy couplers sound like a good idea. I've also had good luck with Kadee 740's: medium shank, all metal, and they pivot.

Up until a week ago I could have helped immediately - I had one pair in original box, and could have measured them.  An attempt at reorganization has put them elsewhere, and the rest are on display at the airport.

One thing I can tell you - when a truck is done by Wasatch, it will always be the correct wheelbase.

John,

Thank-you for the heads up. I have contacted Mr. Lewis and seen the Wasatch 41N trucks on eBay. I understand that they are 5' O-gauge and not Proto48 standard gauge. Now, my concern is their wheelbase: 8.5' vs. 9'. My understanding is that GSC made 41N trucks with both wheelbases. The drawings for the D&RGW equipment in the Pullman Standard Library show a 9' wheelbase, so I'm hoping the Wasatch 41N trucks have a 9' wheelbase. If the Wasatch 41N trucks have an 8.5' wheelbase, then I'll look for something else, such as the PSC 41-N-11 model. The 6% difference in the wheelbases is large enough to notice, so I want to get this right, especially considering what these trucks cost.