Purchasing Etiquette ?

There was an item I wanted on eBay and I realized that the seller was an authorized Lionel dealer with a brick and mortal business.  I called the store and offered to deal directly with his store thinking it would save him fees (about $40 - $60 worth) and get me a better deal (knock $20 off the price?).  Surprisingly, he refused and said he does not negotiate.  That was over 2 years ago and the item is still for sale.

Purchasing Etiquette? Do you mean like selling etiquette?

Cash in hand has become boss again, across many many consumer product categories. Should become even more the practice once Federal Reserve interest/monetary policy shifts. Remember what buying toy trains was like during the recession of 2009?

Some "businessmen"(?) don't recognize the cost of carrying inventory!

Just a brief devil's advocate side of the scenario.

He does take your offer.  Word gets out.  Others now know "don't ever pay what he asks, you can get him down".  He ends up spending far too much time on the phone with people (or dealing with emails) trying to get his prices down.

I have no idea who this is and I'm not asking.  But if his store is in general fair and this is a single item, yes he may not sell it in the near future, but he also may not need to.

But I don't run a train store, so what do I know?

-Dave

Exactly! I think some 'business men' are actually 'collectors'. They don't realize getting rid of that item that has been on display for the last 2-3 years will help them get something that only sits there for a couple of weeks and improve sales, profits and pay the rent.

OTOH, I think knowing what would sell and what would not sell would be very difficult to decide when placing your orders and I think it would be really difficult to run a successful train store.

To the original question, I see nothing wrong with offering them what you are willing to pay for an item they may have. All they can do is say no, and if it's something they have had for a while and no one has shown any interest in it, they just might say yes. Of course your offer should be within reason, offering $100 for a $500 engine will probably be insulting, only cause hard feelings and give them a lesser opinion of you as a customer?

I don't see anything wrong with offering say $450 or so for that same $500 engine. To me that is a fair and reasonable offer. Could lead to a price somewhere in between that would be good for both parties. Or just ask them for the lowest price they would sell it for. Tell them something like you really like the item, but just don't want to spend that much for one, what's the best you can do on it? Many things are negotiable, you never know?

Dave and RTR I agree with but I also have seen it work to the advantage of the seller first if the seller has a store for that monthly fee they save big time on the final price fee. 

But on other hand would it not to be better to have people calling you directly and selling to them and give maybe 5% discount also he gets better mail rates using ebay so what you really need to look for is one of the big train stores and see what there price is if your dealer isn't a big train store your dealer is not getting items that they are as they don't have to go thru a middle man so they actually get it a lower price than he does. I know this because of working in a hobby shop that basically Did O guage, remote airplanes, and models The owner was friend and most my time there was just giving a hand ( unpaid ) but got a little better discount than others

Well, to answer in the context of the original question, I have not offered less, but my son did. This past Christmas, I listed some train items on my wish list. This included some of the 6464 reissue sets of 3 cars.

I do not know exactly what happened, but when I was astonished that I received not one but two sets of cars, my son told me that on one of them, the auction site had a "price or make offer" note on it.

My son (30 y/o) evidently low-balled the seller, and so a dialogue began. Note: I do not know exactly what transpired. At some point my son told the seller that his dad really wanted this number set, and that he was trying to get it for me for Christmas.  The seller was impressed that he was trying so hard to get his Dad some trains for Christmas that he finally relented and sold it for his original low-ball offer.

No idea who the seller was, but if they're on the forum, I just wanted to say "Thanks!" for working with my son.

Your son was lucky, If the listing has an Make Offer part then the seller will usually not take more then 10% off the buy it now price. It also depends on how long the item has been sitting around, and how much over the list price the seller put it up for on the Buy it Now.

The key to selling any inventory item is always turnover.  Make your inventory work for you.  Don't work for your money.

Fred

Last night I emailed a fellow forum member about an itenm for sale.  Based on its original selling price I asked if he would negotiate.  He explained the reason for his original price and I agreed.

It never hurts to ask. 

I think rtr12 has put it well succinctly.  It never hurts to ask what you want to pay...and if the dialogue between seller and buyer doesn't get caustic, the good things happen.

The one large dealer at York in the Orange Hall really needs some manners lessons at negotiation. I get the feeling they think they are the only game in town.......after their attitude gets demonstrated..... I usually walk over to Nicholas Smith and come away with the goodies!

I'll throw in my 2 cents with two points -

if I'm in a retail shop, I'll look to see if they accept credit cards - most do. So I'll ask if they offer a discount for a cash sale. 

If I'm at a show sometimes I'll look for a second item I'm interested in and make an offer on the lot. 

I have worked with online dealers before. Generally, it has always been a respectful & decent conversation. I don't beat anyone up on their asking price, but I need to pay a fair price for anything I purchase, otherwise, I can't pay for it. Sometimes it has been very quick & upfront- "I really like your product, and I really want to close this deal, this is what I can afford to pay - $x.xx. If you can't sell for that price, I respect that" 

At that point I usually would not sell to that person at any price.

To the OP's question, no I have not tried that with an online vendor.   I have tried it with the best offer feature on the large auction site with mixed results.

Face to face, whether it's at a show or a store, I always pay cash, and always ask nicely if the seller can do better on the price for cash.  Most will, a few wont.  Bundling more than one item also helps.  I've made some sweet purchases this way and I believe that everyone wins.  

It never hurts to ask, and most sellers especially at shows are or should be used to making deals.

Jon

I have done this ... with a hobby shop in the U.K., believe it or not.  

He had listed an item on eBay without the "Make an Offer" feature.  I figured out who the seller was, found his website online, and wrote a polite email asking if he would take 25 pounds less than he was asking on eBay (about $50, or a 10% discount).  He accepted within minutes and I had it shipped.

As others have said, "It doesn't hurt to ask."  If you're polite and respectful, the worst that can happen is for the seller to say, "No, I can't sell it for that."

SJS

I disagree with you Lee. There was and item on the buy/sell forum that I made what I considered on reasonable offer and the email I got back wasn't a friendly "no". I continue to make offers and some are accepted and some are not and buyers and sellers should take it as the norm. As far as making an offer anywhere my wife says: "What's the worst that can happen? They turn it down?" Maybe Maybe not.

Ron

A sale is when the purchaser agrees with or on a price set by the Seller, and the market sets the price with the scarcity of the specific item. Rare merchandise generates  more, a flood of product reduces demand, therefore the prices are usually lower or more flexible. Built to Order is good for he Merchant, and Manufacturer. Many dealers have dead stock with slow turn ratios, therefore keeping there prices up on the goods they are selling. It's a good idea to pre-order a Train Item if you want to be guaranteed it will be made. This is a nice way of helping our great Ratailers Stay in Business. it's not 100% foolproof, but it is good to get the ball rolling.  Yes, it never hurts to ask for a better price, but this should be done In a mannerly poised way. We live in competitive times, dealers are aware that others dealers are going after the sale.  Look at Patrick's Trains and Mario's on the Forum.

competition is good, and it keeps us informed....great post, Happy Railroading....

To make a long story short. I sent a message to a eBay seller asking him about an item he had listed for almost two months. I asked if he would split the shipping with me if I agreed to his listed price. He sent me a full page email rebuking me for even thinking such ways to break eBay's rules. This seller had the nerve to block me from his store. He then contacted eBay telling them something? eBay sent me a message stating that I was to have no future contact with the seller. If I did so, my eBay privileges would be revoked. The seller had the nerve to say that I harassed him repeatedly(one message?). eBay also added that in the event that they received any other complaints....(you guessed it). To put it simple English. That place sucks.   

On seeing an Ebay item nearing the end of its bidding cycle with no offers I have rarely messaged that seller saying that I would buy it for $$$ if it happens to get relisted. I think I was successful once. Most of the time they just relist it at the same previous starting price. NOTE: I would NOT do this just to haggle a price but only if I though the listed prices to be high and my offer fair. Most Ebay sellers seem content to wait. As buyers we must be too!

In a brick-mortar store I may ask if items are priced as marked. Some places (my LHS) do discount off the sticker) You never know unless you ask.

It is a violation of ebay's agreement user agreement. Anyone that ebay's has to agree not to sell an item outside the confines of ebay once it is listed on ebay or they will lose their ability to use ebay. If a seller lists and locates a buyer using ebay then completes the transaction outside of ebay, cutting the percentage ebay gets in order to increase his margin, ebay loses money they earned by providing a robust marketplace and everyone would be doing the same. 

Be polite and go ahead and ask. If the seller says No then pay his price or find the middle ground. If the seller comes back with cynical or nasty reply then maybe you have uncovered a trait that you may not want to deal with, especially if the product for what ever reason needs to be returned

Yes, and successfully. I have been in sales for a long time.

True.

Of course there are other practices used from the other side of the transaction that are also against the rules.

My favorite is when items suddenly become "no longer available" when the seller fails to put a reserve or put the starting bid where he is comfortable selling and then the bids don't get high enough for him at the end.  It's especially comical when the "no longer available" item ends up re-listed a day or 2 later (hoping for a better bidding war).

Sorry to digress from original point of topic.

-Dave

FWIW, I would certainly remove that person from my 'future purchases' list.

I am at a loss as to how him eating half the shipping costs would bother ebay. They still get the entire commission less a small part of the revised shipping charges. Is that not the same as when you purchase 3 items from someone and they combine shipping?

Sold a Lionel Heavyweight Pullman set (10 green cars?, been awhile) many years ago to a guy in HI. Told him that was going to be big UPS$. He replied "same from you or another." Was able to find a large box and sent it all in one package. Saved him a ton versus shipping multiple packages, told him take a soldier to lunch with the savings.

quote:

Why?  It costs zero to list on here, and costs you zero to leave it sitting in your closet till somebody wants it.

For most folks it costs nothing to list an item on EBay, fees are only charged when a lot sells.  EBay didn't always work this way. For the first "X" number of years I was participating, there was a listing fee.

Well, technically it costs you what you have in it to keep it in the closet. This is money tied up that could be put toward the purchase of something you would rather have on your layout than in the closet.

Of course this is more if a 'business' like perspective rather than a hobbyists, but it still applies to your own money, cash flow or whatever you want to call it. Sometimes it's better to get rid of some things and get something you like. Now, if I could just learn to practice this myself...I'm always afraid that after I sell an item, I will really regret it...

I had a similar experience. I contacted the seller and told him if the item didn't sell I would pay him $15 more than his listed price, it was an item I really wanted and he would not take a check or money order which contrary to popular belief or Ebay policy many will. he told me he wasn't allowed to sell the item outside of Ebay once he has listed it, that he had to sell it thru Ebay. Am I to believe if you list an item on Ebay and it doesn't sell you have to keep relisting it until it does? Sounds to me like there's some pretty lame business men/women out there who don't understand how ebay works.

Jerry

The market is flooded with trains. Unless it meets my target, I always offer sellers less that they are asking or ask what the bottom line is on this item. If they respond positively  (and they most often do) I buy and if they don't I just walk. Money talks nobody walks!  My favorite hobby is bidding low on eBay items just to see me being outbid by the buyers stooge bidder or himself. When they keep getting stuck with the item and need to pay the eBay fee, they get the message. I might just clean up the train bidding process singlehandedly and its fun!

I've sold quite a bit on ebay. No trains though . . . yet.

It's routine to be contacted by buyers wanting to take the deal off ebay and negotiate privately.

Routine . . . and strictly against the rules!

Also, the seller loses all protection should the buyer stiff him with, say, a Paypal chargeback.

And the very buyers most likely to act dishonestly are, you guessed it, the very ones wanting to negotiate for an ebay-listed item off off ebay!

A seller is free to cancel an auction for any or no reason at all . . . until he has a bid. However, after a bid has been placed, it is no longer quite so easy to cancel an auction. A seller can't cancel an auction just before it ends either, even if there are no bidders yet.

Of course, after the listing expires, and there were no bids, or a reserve was not met, the seller can indeed sell the item to whomever he wants. But while it is on the site, he is NOT free to make an off-site deal!

I'm not saying these rules don't get broken from time to time but they're the rules. Like 'em or no.

I've always had good results politely making an offer they couldn't refuse on an item listed as a "buy it now" or in an auction that had no bids at the time of my offer.