Question about a Train America Studios AC Version Fan Driven Smoke Unit

No stop before you damage your engines electronics. That lionel unit is shorting your chuff switch. 

Again, here is the problem. You have a TAS smoke unit and wiring setup for chuff input- I can see that in your wiring because I just worked on my own Weaver New Haven with the exact same smoke unit and wiring.

The point is, the 3 pin connector has smoke power (green), center pin (black) is frame ground, and the last wire is chuff (red wire and has a diode under heatshrink inline and visible in your photos.

However, when/if you plug in the Lionel standard 27 Ohm unit, the outer 2 pins are SHORTED together which potentially injects smoke AC power back down the chuff(red) wire)

Again this extremely bad and could damage the electronics of either the R4LC if they wired it for chuff input or the Railsounds board.

Either way, again, plugging that Lionel smoke unit in is bad in this wiring harness.

TAS turbosmoke instructions https://ogrforum.com/...20Turbosmoke%201.pdf

FYI, the reason I had mine open was my Weaver did not puff, smoke unit was constant on, but that was because the smoke unit jumper on the TAS unit was set to diesel mode. Changing that jumper again, was why I had mine open and how I have immediate understanding of your pictures and relevant wiring.

I cannot stress this enough, if/when you plug in that Lionel unit, it shorted AC hot smoke unit power into the chuff sensor/switch line- which is further connected to other electronics in the tender mostly 5V DC circuits.

This below is NOT compatible with this circuit as wired.

The TAS fan driven unit accepts AC power, ground, and chuff on the three pins.  As Vernon says, the connectors fit, but the signals are different!

Also, your TAS smoke unit jumper is just like mine- in the constant on diesel position.

Test, the engine with the 3 wire connector completely unplugged.

"When I activate the smoke unit I get almost machine gun style popping from the sound system" as this would indicate if a different problem- possibly your chuff microswitch in the engine- just in front of the gearbox. Similar problem in this topic "When I activate the smoke unit I get almost machine gun style popping from the sound system" as this would indicate if a different problem- possibly your chuff microswitch in the engine- just in front of the gearbox.

The green wire should ring to pin 5,6 on the radio board, with the smoke switch on, that’s smoke power. The black wire should ring to chassis ground, and finally, the red wire is chuff input ( for puffs in time with chuffs ) …..I see what looks like the one way diode on the red wire. That should go to pin 17 ( chuff in )  these pin outs I’ve given are for the radio board side, not the Cruise Commander connectors. Consult the ERR CC instructions for the corresponding connectors to the radio board. Sounds like you need to investigate the chuff wire, and check the chuff inputs ( chuff switch, wiring, etc. ) as Vernon stated. You can temporarily disable the red wire by de-pinning it, and verify you have idle smoke. This is a self contained smoke unit that simply works off smoke feature from the radio board ( or track power ) the chuff input takes a ground signal to boost it every time it sees ground via a chuff switch of some sort. If you’ve installed this yourself, be sure the silver stripe on the diode is aiming away from the smoke unit….

Pat

FYI, the diode being referred to in the red wire

From the TAS manual https://ogrforum.com/...20Turbosmoke%201.pdf

Thank you to everyone that has responded. My brother, his son-in-law and grandson showed up to run some trains. Oh Happy Days! We had a great time. What you see in the pictures is the way it was wired when I got it. Weather or not the previous owner changed something I do not know. I have not connected anything new yet, so it sounds like a good thing that I did not. I will read and re-read these posting, if need be ask more questions and then try these ideas. Again thank you so much for your time and input.

@David D posted:

Thank you to everyone that has responded. My brother, his son-in-law and grandson showed up to run some trains. Oh Happy Days! We had a great time. What you see in the pictures is the way it was wired when I got it. Weather or not the previous owner changed something I do not know. I have not connected anything new yet, so it sounds like a good thing that I did not. I will read and re-read these posting, if need be ask more questions and then try these ideas. Again thank you so much for your time and input.

Again, my own Weaver Steam engine had he smoke unit configured for diesel mode constant on- but as a warning and part of your troubleshooting- that mode (diesel) does not cause machine gun chuff sounds. Again, mine was found the same way indicating they likely just got a batch of TAS parts all configured the same way and just missed before they were installed into these steam locos. All that mode jumper does is either fan constant on (diesel mode), or smart fan control (Steam mode) with puffing and then turns on idle smoke when sitting still based on a chuff signal input.

Yes, I think you should change the mode. I do not think your smoke unit is bad or is the cause. Maybe it has failed (I'm not saying that is impossible), but again easy enough to test with it disconnected.

I think the actual problem is elsewhere causing the machine gun chuff status, but because we have eyes on it and investigating the smoke unit- realized again, likely from the factory, the wrong mode is set (currently diesel) and is something I recommend a simple mod or fix of that mode jumper.

Diodes can die. If the engine worked as advertised before this happened, or you bought it second hand, a short to the diode such as a derailment, or something crossing the rails can make a diode fail wide open, just the same as if it was a piece of wire. I’d definitely check out the mode pads as Vernon suggested, then if all looks good, de-pin the red wire with the diode in line, and move it out the way and don’t let it touch ground, ( or power for god’s sake ) ( stick a piece of tape over it for a minute ) then run your engine, and see if you have the correct chuff, & idle smoke. If so, suspect diode has gone bad, but perform one more test. With the engine powered up, at idle, fashion a jumper from ground ( outside rail ) and carefully touch & release the solder joint where you just de-pinned the red wire. If everything is working correctly, you should get a blast of more smoke, indicating the smoke unit is working as advertised. If this is the case, then more than likely the diode has failed, and you can easily replace it,….this smoke unit is about as simple as simple gets as far as wiring in concerned…..I’ve seen a couple fellas install these units, and forget to add the diode, and your complaint is exactly what they said happened when they forgot it,…..don’t jump to conclusions, do the due diligence, and diagnose …..

Pat

I used my Fluke Multi meter on the diode setting with the positive lead on the red wire at the smoke unit connector and the negative on the cherry switch connection I got 591 ohms. When I reverse the leads  I get an infinite ohm reading so it looks like the diode is good. I will make the change to the jumper setting. John helped me before with the machine gun sound being a short on the speaker but this time the engine sounds are good until I turn on the smoke unit.

@David D posted:

I used my Fluke Multi meter on the diode setting with the positive lead on the red wire at the smoke unit connector and the negative on the cherry switch connection I got 591 ohms. When I reverse the leads  I get an infinite ohm reading so it looks like the diode is good. I will make the change to the jumper setting. John helped me before with the machine gun sound being a short on the speaker but this time the engine sounds are good until I turn on the smoke unit.

Did this problem happen out of the blue?….or is this the first time you’ve run this engine?…….

Pat

It's the first time I've run the engine. Like I mentioned it runs good, sounds good including chuff sound until I turn on the smoke. At that point the engine sounds get much softer and it gives off a machine gun sound until I turn the smoke unit back off.

Thanks to all who replied to this thread. Very useful information. I have this exact smoke unit in a Weaver Empress that I need to get running again one day soon. Fall project.

Rod