Questions Regarding: Speed steps, Cruise Control(K-line), Odyssey and running on a DCS layout

I don't run through the DCS for my TMCC or Legacy, so I'll skip the first questions.

Brand Specific Questions:

4.) I have had my eye on a few K-line diesels with cruise control- is k-line cruise reliable(might've read some things...)

Actually, not all that reliable.  I have a pile of old K-Line cruise modules that have gone up in smoke.  I have several K-Line cruise equipped locomotives that are still running, but I've also put Cruise Commander M's in several others when the K-Line cruise crapped out.

5.) Seeking clarification- if an engine has K-line cruise, then I CANNOT install ERR's Cruise Commander M without more work(i.e. taking out K-line's cruise, etc...) that either a.) will yield uncertain results or b.) isn't worth it

It's usually not a big deal to remove the K-Line Cruise module and install the CC-M.  There are exceptions, I have the K-Line tank engine with the K-Line cruise that is gone wonky, and I will have to supply a chuff switch and add my Super-Chuffer to control the fan.

6.) In terms of K-line, would it be better to get a conventional engine and upgrade to ERR Cruise Commander M? Get a TMCC/RS and get CCM(and possibly an R4LC)? Or get a K-line engine with TMCC, RS and K-line Cruise?

The Cruise Commander (no M) is what you use for conventional engines.  The CC-M is for TMCC with modular boards, it drops in to replace the DCDR, DCDS, or the K-Line Cruise module.

@gunrunnerjohn thank you! You were oneof the forum members who I was hoping would respond! Those answers were very helpful! Sorry about the Cruise Commander being for non-TMCC vs Cruise Commander M being for engines with TMCC, that's something I knew and should've better articulated.

Just want to clarify, if I purchased a K-line engine with cruise, I could simply replace the K-line Cruise Module by dropping in an ERR Cruise Commander M. Also, regarding the 1st 3 questions, let's assume that I run my TMCC engines via TMCC with the Cab1 remote- which I do about 30-40% of the time as I've found I get better speed control with the Cab1 with TMCC engines.

THANKS again!

For the most part, the replacement of the K-Line cruise is simple.  However, at times they added extra functions to their cruise module software and had them wired to the 10-pin connector.  In that case, you may have to replicate those functions.  That's the K-Line Tank Engine issue I mentioned.

Like I said, though I've tinkered with the DCS remote running TMCC, I prefer the CAB1L or even CAB1 with the big red knob, so I have zilch experience with that operational mode.

1.) Can speed steps on TMCC engines w/o Odyssey be changed with DCS? As in, 32 to 128? I know that DCS allows you to go from smph to relative but it doesn't make much of a difference

2.) Are odyssey and/or cruise the Lionel and K-line versions, respectively, of better speed control?

3.) Does an engine have to have Odyssey, Cruise(K-line), ERR Cruise OR ERR CCM in order to change speed steps with DCS?

The DCS system will issue commands in either 32 or 128 speed steps for TMCC locomotives. If you have an ERR board that can change between 32 and 100 speed steps you will have the use a Lionel remote (Cab-1, Cab-1L, Legacy remote) to change the speed step setting on the ERR board. The DCS remote will not do that. The DCS remote in 128 speed step mode for TMCC will control an ERR board in 100 speed step mode no problem. I do it all the time. To run in 128 speed step mode the electronics in the locomotive need to have the capability to run with more than 32 speed steps. 

GRJ and @Lou1985 gentlemen, thank you for your answers!

@gunrunnerjohn I don't think that I clearly stated my question in my 2nd post- I do have a CAB1 remote with the big red knob ha. And about 30-40% of the time I use the Cab1 to run TMCC. If that changes your response. I've already download the K-line cruise word doc and pdf regarding K-line cruise control and testing if you have it as well as how to change certain ratios. Didn't dig to deep because I'm not there yet but I might be soon...

Anyway, these last 2 questions  I have should wrap things up:

For final confirmation, are Lionel's Odyssey and K-line Cruise Control,(main focus is K-line but for general knowledge) provide 100 + speed steps? Or was it simply something that kept a constant speed while going up and down grades?

Also, on a somewhat related note: is anyone out there familiar with K-line's numbering system? For example, If an item is K1506-233, I get the feeling that the first 4 numbers represent the engine type and road name while the last 3represent the cab number. Unfortunately, Legacy K-line doesn't list the cab numbers for each engine released.

Odyssey I (aka TMCC Odyssey) has 32 speed steps.  K-Line cruise has 32, 128, and 256 steps.  Most people find that the 128 step mode works best.  Lionel Legacy Odyssey II has 200 speed steps.

Thanks, John! That is extremely helpful and greatly appreciated. Really, it is, clears things up for me big time.

Also, I'm looking at the K-line F40PH- if anyone is familiar with those. Specifically the K2403-0334(Cab numbers 322, 334, 353) according to the legacy k-line website, they don't have cruise but 322 and 353 certainly do. There was another K-line Amtrak F40PH with TMCC/RS released with the 21" Heritage passenger set, unknown product number or cab #.

If the K-Line you're looking doesn't have cruise, it's pretty easy to drop the CC-M into those.

Even if the K-Line you are looking for does have cruise, you will be miles ahead removing it and putting in ERR cruise.

That's my opinion.

I came to that opinion after having three or four K-Line locos with lousy/jerky/surging cruise systems. Some folks have had good K-Line cruise systems, but not me.

Well, if it's running well, then I'd keep it.  OTOH, once they start to go south, I haven't been able to bring more than a fraction of them back.   I have a drawer full of K-Line cruise modules with various issues.  I always dreamed of making some good ones out of all the bad ones, but I have decided that's not worth the effort.

Thanks for the input, gentlemen,- much appreciated. Depending on if I make the purchase, I will certainly keep the thread updated!

Assuming I buy it and it works well as-is, I may still buy the CC-M, have always heard great things and have previously looked into installing one in my Lionel TMCC Dash-9. However, that Dash-9 has an R2LC07C, with which the CC-M doesn't play with very nicely thus I'd need the R4LC. While installing the CC-M that I'd have to mount myself gave me some concern, I'm confident in my ability to do that. What really prevented me from doing it was the R4LC swap which would involve a soldering to a single pin. While I can solder rather effectively, I have an essential tremor of my hands that would make that task difficult. Regardless, thanks for the advice and help, I've learned a lot from your input in this thread and in previous posts as well as other things that I've read, so at the end of the day I gained a fair amount of knowledge which is always a plus!

Actually, for the most part, I've not had an issue with the R2LC-C07 and the CC-M.  I've done a few upgrades, and if the two play well together, the customer saves money.

Well, the engine has arrived! Runs great- wxcept for a hot motor. Just made a thread soliciting help. It has cruise 4.0.

thanks for all your help- all of you!

steve

I'd check how much current the motor is drawing, it could be bad.  I've had several motors that draw several amps instead of 300 or so milliamps to start.