Quieting An MTH Rotary Beacon

Turn the power off?

I've seen somewhere where someone actually converted one of these to use a small gear motor instead of the noisy vibrator, that would certainly be an improvement.

I remember having one, I don't remember much noise except when I had it really spinning fast. The real ones are slow like a lighthouse.  Is it sitting flat all four corners ? I think mine was on plywood also. 

Try running it on DC voltage, it quiets a lot of Lionel accessories down with vibro-motors.  If that doesn't work, hit it with 220 or 221v AC, that will definitely quiet it down.

Chris S. 

The screws are provided for that reason. Try them and see if that helps. Let us know. Good luck. 

Thanks for the suggestions.  I did check, and, unfortunately the beacon was sitting on all four corners.  I also tried using the screws, and, unfortunately, that didn't make a significant difference either.  

220v AC would require unplugging the oven, and, I'm currently using the oven light to illuminate the layout.  Ultimately, turning the power off to the beacon worked the best so far, but, unfortunately, now the beacon won't light up at all. I am hopeful though that the bulb will last longer.  

I'll try the graphite and see if that helps.  Finally, I did install an Echo in the room, so, as a last resort, I can tell Alexa to set the volume at "8", and play "Cinnamon Girl" or, "Old Man" -- an eventuality that seemed far, far off when that last song first hit the airwaves....

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Turn the power off?

I've seen somewhere where someone actually converted one of these to use a small gear motor instead of the noisy vibrator, that would certainly be an improvement.

GRJ,

I motorized a radar tower back in 2013.... see here: https://ogrforum.com/...-tower-control-tower

Maybe that's what you're thinking of.  It's still working 6 years later! I use a single D cell battery to power it at a great speed. 

But, harder to do with a light inside a beacon!

FIREONE,

I thought that the beacon rotated based on the fact that the alternating polarity of an AC feed keeps reversing the magnetic field and the "fingers on the gasket push the beacon to turn in only one direction...no?

FireOne posted:

Try running it on DC voltage, it quiets a lot of Lionel accessories down with vibro-motors.  If that doesn't work, hit it with 220 or 221v AC, that will definitely quiet it down.

Really useful post.

eddiem posted:

FIREONE,

I thought that the beacon rotated based on the fact that the alternating polarity of an AC feed keeps reversing the magnetic field and the "fingers on the gasket push the beacon to turn in only one direction...no?

Eddie, I have not tried DC with my rotary beacon yet, you could very well be right.   I have used DC to quiet other accessories.

Chris S.

It won't work on pure D.C.  The vibramotor needs a form of AC to work properly.  You can try adding a diode to one leg of the input to the coil as this will create a half wave AC waveform.  Some accessories already have one installed.

Did MTH come out with a "modern" version using a DC gear-motor (instead of an AC vibrator motor)?  

In any case, a DC gearmotor assembly can be remarkably noisy if it uses inexpensive plastic gears.  

First, thanks for the excellent, insightful and interesting comments and suggestions!

Second, in the nature of simple fixes, since my electrical background is somewhat limited to the "WAV": - [Watts = Volts (X) Amps],   Could I easily disconnect the vibrator motor, and use a beacon or two just for the colorful lighting of the lenses?

I really thought that DC would quiet it -did try that?  That should get it to hum

Forum member Bobby OGuage posed an interesting idea to rotate the lens housing in 2012

perhaps consider this mod

Moonman posted:

Forum member Bobby OGuage posed an interesting idea to rotate the lens housing in 2012

perhaps consider this mod

 

Thanks Carl!  This seems to be the relevant post. My "Pre-Posting" search had actually turned up that thread, which I had read.  I was hoping that there would be a simpler fix for the noise, but the problem seems to defy physics absent a significant modification.  I had ordered some "Prime" powdered graphite online before I posted, and will give that a try when it reaches my snow covered, frozen porch.

For other Forum Members, here is the post you were kind enough to reference:

Bobby Ogage

"I hear that train a coming,

it's Long Island No. 39 rolling

around the bend""

Set it on a piece of foam or Styrofoam. That's as quiet as your gonna get without trying the 220 method.

I've always liked the rotating beacon accessory, but like others, have gotten sporatic performance from mine. I have tried 2 Lionels and 1 MTH version. None gave decent performance, or kept working for any significant time. I tried the graphite and everything else I could think of. I may try one again just for see if something's changed.

However, I think I may try finding a Postwar version that had the angled vents on top of the beacon head, and the rising heat from the bulb turned the beacon. Seems pretty foolproof, and makes almost no noise.

breezinup posted:

I've always liked the rotating beacon accessory, but like others, have gotten sporatic performance from mine. I have tried 2 Lionels and 1 MTH version. None gave decent performance, or kept working for any significant time. I tried the graphite and everything else.  However, I think I may try finding a Postwar version that had the angled vents on top of the beacon head, and the rising heat from the bulb turned the beacon. Seems pretty foolproof, and makes almost no noise.

That's pretty much my experience.  I have an original postwar version from my original trains, but, it also has a vibrator (as I recall - I'll have to check as it just sits on a corner of my layout). I have newer Lionel and MTH versions in different colors, as this is one of my favorite accessories for running trains with the room lighting off.  I'm in the process of re- wiring my accessories after a total layout rebuild, and the MTH in the O.P. is the first beacon that I have wired -- with the stated results.  I may have to move the beacon to a more remote venue on the layout since it is only a few feet from the location where I often sit to operate the trains when I'm not walking around with a handheld remote.

I'm coming close to the same conclusion as Jim 1939 reached (above) that the noise is just in the nature of the accessory's design and construction.  Maybe one day after my wiring is complete, I'll tackle a motor installation as that looks intriguing. 

I have one of the thermal ones somewhere in my box collection.  I did an "upgrade" experiment with that one as the thermal operation is pretty spotty.  I ran a small small tube up under the head and had a little fan blowing air up, it worked great.  I actually just used a smoke unit without heat to create the draft, and stuck the tubing in the stack hole of the smoke unit.  It was very quiet, and you could vary the rotation speed by changing the voltage on the fan motor.

I always meant to find a more permanent solution, but other things dragged me away.

Interesting approach by GRJ. There's something posted on You Tube by some guy who also hooked up a fan. Researching this a little more, it appears the heat-powered Postwar version could be very finicky as well, so both types have their own issues. When I have time to fool with it (whenever that is), I may try GRJ's idea of using a small tube to aim a small amount of air. Maybe use one of those tiny battery powered fans they use on those reading glass mounted face cooling deals!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have one of the thermal ones somewhere in my box collection.  I did an "upgrade" experiment with that one as the thermal operation is pretty spotty.  I ran a small small tube up under the head and had a little fan blowing air up, it worked great.  I actually just used a smoke unit without heat to create the draft, and stuck the tubing in the stack hole of the smoke unit.  It was very quiet, and you could vary the rotation speed by changing the voltage on the fan motor.

I always meant to find a more permanent solution, but other things dragged me away.

I think you are on to an excellent idea. My MTH rotary beacon was new, in the box, when I wired it over the weekend.  I had purchased it years ago and never got around to using it.  My experience with many of the MTH Postwar remakes was that the accessory or item was, at the minimum, often somewhat improved, using more current "know how" to make the product even better. (Lionel often does the same thing unless intentionally trying to replicate a vintage produce.) 

This particular accessory needs some modern thinking, and your "upgrade" experiment is particularly intriguing.  It immediately reminded me of a rotating roof vent that is often used instead of a powered roof vent, with air moving the blades on the vent, and, causing it to rotate.  That design seems to be quite an elegant solution.

It really would be nice if this particular accessory could be improved beyond its original designs involving thermal dynamics or a vibrating mechanism.

Save those expensive smoke units and try one of these  $2.50 each.    They can even drive a diesel smoke unit.    j

Mouse over to Zoom - Click to enlarge

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC3V-...2:g:uT4AAOSwuZVcGwuO

Here is another solution a geared motor 6v 30rpm  $3.00  I have a couple of these they start running about 3V 15 rpm would be great to power radar antenna.  I like to troll eBay and there are thousands of items that all modelers would find useful. A tip if you find something you like copy it's title into the search bar and what comes up click on the SORT Price + shipping lowest first.             j

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-6V...047675.c100008.m2219

breezinup posted:

I've always liked the rotating beacon accessory, but like others, have gotten sporatic performance from mine. I have tried 2 Lionels and 1 MTH version. None gave decent performance, or kept working for any significant time. I tried the graphite and everything else I could think of. I may try one again just for see if something's changed.

However, I think I may try finding a Postwar version that had the angled vents on top of the beacon head, and the rising heat from the bulb turned the beacon. Seems pretty foolproof, and makes almost no noise.

I like the old heat activated ones too. Only bummer is ANY air flow in the house will screw it. Furnace , slight draft, etc. Still cool though.

MattR  I like the old heat activated ones too. Only bummer is ANY air flow in the house will screw it. Furnace , slight draft, etc. Still cool though.

Yes, they must be in a glass cabinet to function properly.    j

I must have missed it but has someone actually demonstrated a DC gearmotor driving the rotating beacon (not the radar tower)?  That is, the rotating beacon revolves around a stationary light-bulb - the nippled O-ring-like drive washer of the vibrator motor is perfect for this.  But it seems to me a DC gearmotor would require some kind of slip-ring mechanism or the like to pass the 2 wires to the lightbulb thru the rotating shaft?  Or the gearmotor would need to drive the outside edge of the O-ring washer holding the rotating beacon lens.  Or fill-in-the-blank.   

stan2004 posted:

I must have missed it but has someone actually demonstrated a DC gearmotor driving the rotating beacon (not the radar tower)?  That is, the rotating beacon revolves around a stationary light-bulb - the nippled O-ring-like drive washer of the vibrator motor is perfect for this.  But it seems to me a DC gearmotor would require some kind of slip-ring mechanism or the like to pass the 2 wires to the lightbulb thru the rotating shaft?  Or the gearmotor would need to drive the outside edge of the O-ring washer holding the rotating beacon lens.  Or fill-in-the-blank.   

Slip ring,   a stereo male and female earphone jack make a perfect miniature slip ring mount the beacon top on the male part and it plugs into the female take the opportunity to convert to LED. While your at it.  Piece O Cake !   j

  In the attached pic, notice the red band around the base of the bulb socket. That is a piece of 1/2 inch heat shrink tubing, installed with a heat gun. You don't have to be precise with the length of tubing you use; just trim off the excess after shrinking into place. Make sure the area in the pic is covered, as it cushions the metal base of the beacon head from rattling against the socket. Presto, instant noise reduction. Of course, remove the rubber drive ring before using the heat gun.

Jim

Saw that there are a variety of tiny fans that appear for sale on the Bay. Might be useful to hook these up as an alternative to smoke units for rotating those beacons. 

JohnActon posted:

Save those expensive smoke units and try one of these  $2.50 each.    They can even drive a diesel smoke unit.    j

Mouse over to Zoom - Click to enlarge

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC3V-...2:g:uT4AAOSwuZVcGwuO

 

This one is smaller and only .99 cents

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-3V...QBRurTYnDo08UA-N51VQ

Be careful when ordering these. Went to order the .99 cent one and when asked to select you can only order the plastic tubing that goes on the nipples.

There are a ton of listings for the same thing, obviously some big manufacturing overrun.   But you're right Dave, many of those listings with a selection dropdown have things like clamps, hoses, or connectors that are the first item.  You have to make sure you select what you want in the dropdown and insure the price changes to reflect it before ordering.

I bought three Lionel 494 rotary beacons from the Bay a few years ago; I ran them on about 7-8 volts off of a ZWL transformer and got slow rotation and they were quiet - had to replace the nubbed rubber washers on 1 to get it to work well but after that, no issues - all quiet.  One last thing, when first powered up, one would not rotate till it 'warmed up' - maybe a few minutes.

I've had the same Lionel modern era rotary beacon (made in 1996) for years. It's been pretty quiet the entire time. I replaced the rubber washer once and use a little bit of graphite between the washer and the vibrator motor. Never had an issue. The trick is to not fasten the beacon to the table. Instead just put it on some soft scenery. That will keep noise transfer to the layout at a minimum.

Dave Zucal posted:

JohnActon posted:

Save those expensive smoke units and try one of these  $2.50 each.    They can even drive a diesel smoke unit.    j

Mouse over to Zoom - Click to enlarge

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC3V-...2:g:uT4AAOSwuZVcGwuO

 

 

 

Be careful when ordering these. Went to order the .99 cent one and when asked to select you can only order the plastic tubing that goes on the nipples.

Your right Dave,  this is an increasing problem on eBay. I have been reporting this practice to eBay for over a year. It has become the default mode for some sellers and amounts to KEYWORD SPAMMING when the item in the title is out and only secondary items are in the drop-down menu. When you run across this please report the item to eBay.  eBay has the power to automatically kill ads when the title item is out and a flood of complaints may push them into doing something about the practice. I have known about this practice for quite some time, sorry I did not check this ad before using in my post.     I did kill the link in my original post.                              j

Dave Zucal posted:

JohnActon posted:

Save those expensive smoke units and try one of these  $2.50 each.    They can even drive a diesel smoke unit.    j

 

Mouse over to Zoom - Click to enlar

Your right Dave,  this is an increasing problem on eBay. I have been reporting this practice to eBay for over a year. It has become the default mode for some sellers and amounts to KEYWORD SPAMMING when the item in the title is out and only secondary items are in the drop-down menu. When you run across this please report the item to eBay.  eBay has the power to automatically kill ads when the title item is out and a flood of complaints may push them into doing something about the practice. I have known about this practice for quite some time, sorry I did not check this ad before using in my post.     I did kill the link in my original post.                              j

Dave Zucal posted:

JohnActon posted:

Mous

Trying to kill all the post with the bad ad link.          j

eBay: 142944553393, $1.64 with free shipping, and you actually get what they picture, no dropdown to confuse you.

iambru posted:

  In the attached pic, notice the red band around the base of the bulb socket. That is a piece of 1/2 inch heat shrink tubing, installed with a heat gun. You don't have to be precise with the length of tubing you use; just trim off the excess after shrinking into place. Make sure the area in the pic is covered, as it cushions the metal base of the beacon head from rattling against the socket. Presto, instant noise reduction. Of course, remove the rubber drive ring before using the heat gun.

Jim

 

Jim,  That is a very ingenious fix.