Railsounds 4 vs. Railsounds 5.0 Question

Yes, pull one and pop the other one in, instant sound upgrade.

John,

Thanks - too bad I can't get the Legacy Railsounds 5.5 board for this engine.  

Also, expect an order from me once I get back from vacation for the Super Chuffer and Chuff Sensor.

Well, if you want to spend the bucks, you can get a RailSounds 6 board from the LionMaster Legacy T1 Duplex, and it has the same cab number, listed at $100.  This is the board I used for my testing of TMCC with Legacy sound boards, so I know it works with TMCC, just no quilling whistle.

Remember, the T1 Duplex is an articulated locomotive, so the chuffs are quite different than the Berkshire, something to consider.

If you wait for the 1/2 off parts sale later this year, you can get this for $50.

That is what I'll do then.  I did not know they were selling that board to the public.  Do you know when the sale will be?

It was early November last year, but I don't know if that will repeat.  My order from last year is dated Nov. 4th.

Thanks for the info!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yes, pull one and pop the other one in, instant sound upgrade.

John,

I've been meaning to try this myself, but wasn't so sure it was that simple.

In RS4 configurations, there's an AD20 board in each tender that acts as the receiver for the IR tether, and also controls the rear coupler and back-up light.

Starting with RS5, the AD20 board is eliminated, and the RS Audio board performs the functions of the AD20.

So what happens when you have both AD20 and RS5 boards in the tender, each trying to control the coupler and back-up light? Do they interfere with each other? Will those functions on an RS4 tender work with the AD20 removed and a RS5, 5.5 or 6.0 board installed?

TRW

In your RS4 installation, the coupler and light are wired to the AD20 board, so the RS 5, 5.5, or 6.0 board doesn't have a connection there.  You obviously can't take the AD20 out as the functions are wired to that socket.  I suppose you could hack the motherboard to wire them to the RS boards, but why bother?

GRJ,

Is it only a RS5 board that can work in the RS4/TMCC engine?

Thank you

Chris

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, if you want to spend the bucks, you can get a RailSounds 6 board from the LionMaster Legacy T1 Duplex, and it has the same cab number, listed at $100.  This is the board I used for my testing of TMCC with Legacy sound boards, so I know it works with TMCC, just no quilling whistle.

Remember, the T1 Duplex is an articulated locomotive, so the chuffs are quite different than the Berkshire, something to consider.

If you wait for the 1/2 off parts sale later this year, you can get this for $50.

John, do you know what the white connector socket on the top of the board is for?

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

Is it only a RS5 board that can work in the RS4/TMCC engine?

Any of the modular sound boards, RS 5, RS 5.5, or RS 6.0 will work in the TMCC locomotive with the generic RailSounds power supply.  Obviously, you don't get Legacy specific features like quilling whistle with TMCC.

Bob posted:

John, do you know what the white connector socket on the top of the board is for?

As it so happens, yes.  Note that the board does not have socketed chips, that is the programming interface socket.  If you look at several other boards like the RCMC, the "RailSounds Lite", or the ERR Sound Converter, you'll find the same interface.  Since it is a standard of sorts, I used the same connector on my upcoming sound card.  All these products use the Microchip PIC processor.

John, Have you extensively operated it in a running TMCC loco with DCDS board?  While I agree it will play sounds with the TMCC, the question is does it degrade over time and corrupt serial data, and does it have some anomalies as it operates.   G

I haven't operated it extensively, but I can't see what data would degrade, there's nothing volatile on the RS board.  I remember your 9 rounds with the serial data oddities, but I didn't see any hint of that.  Obviously, the only way to really know is to actually run the combination.  Also, I did my tests in an integrated motherboard with a DCDR, other combinations may need some adjustments.

Well the DCDR is dummy just taking phasing info, no serial data.  Add a DCDS that needs serial data, and things can change.  G

George, since a buffer for the serial data didn't help, I have to think it's a bit more than just the serial data.  I've used my buffer again recently, and it sorted out the bad serial data with the CC-M and the Railsounds inputs.  This should present minimal load on the serial data, far less than the RailSounds board it drives, and should solve those issues.  I know this didn't work in your experiments, and I'm still not sure why.  I suspect hanging a 'scope on the data might yield some information.

John,

Tonight I installed the Railsounds 6 board and everything works but the chuff.  I then swapped back to the Railsounds 4 board and the chuff worked fine.  Is there something else I need to do to get the chuff to work?  All the other sounds work fine.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

So does this PN2222A clean up serial data? I'm having issues having a Cruise Commander talking to a Lionel RS4 package.?

It may, and you also can try swapping R2LC.  But I have had some of the powered Mother Boards from Lionel not work with ERR Cruise.  Defective boards I believe.  G

I recently went through my stock of powered motherboards I had gathered during the half-price parts sale.  One was clearly defective, that will teach me not to test the parts from Lionel before putting them in stock!   The rest of the powered motherboards seem to function properly, hopefully they don't go bad in the drawers!

BRUK, that buffer will usually solve the problem of the RS4 board taking too much current from the serial data and the Cruise Commander running away, that's why I use it.  The really odd part is, sometimes I need it, and sometimes I don't.  Usually, I've needed it with the Cruise Commander M, apparently there is a greater load imposed on the serial data for that board than for the plain Cruise Commander.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Remember, the T1 Duplex is an articulated locomotive, so the chuffs are quite different than the Berkshire, something to consider.

The T1 is a Duplex engine which uses simple expansion technology, resulting in 4 double chuffs, or 8-chuffs/revolution.  The Berkshire only has 4-chuffs/rev.  This engine came with only 2 double chuffs/rev, and I had it converted it to 4 double chuffs.  You can hear the double cuff in this video.

Also, the center 4 drivers are too wide and may short out on certain switches.  This does not seem to be a problem for most, but if it is the only cure I know of is to bevel the inside of these drivers to make them narrower at the track.

Another very interesting thread.  Brings up a possible project I would love to do.  I have two Kline Berkshires RS 4.0   I would love to install the Legacy sounds from the Lionel version.   If this would work, I'll do it.

Order fast, the only Legacy Berkshire RS 5.5 or 6.0 board that I find is this one.

John,

Can you think of a reason why all the sounds work with the RS6 board except the Chuff?

How is the chuff generated on that locomotive?  I tested a RS6 steam board in a TMCC test set with the R2LC and chuff coming through the serial data from the R2LC chuff input, that worked fine.  I don't know that I tested the chuff coming in from a tender wheel sensor, perhaps that's what you have?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

How is the chuff generated on that locomotive?  I tested a RS6 steam board in a TMCC test set with the R2LC and chuff coming through the serial data from the R2LC chuff input, that worked fine.  I don't know that I tested the chuff coming in from a tender wheel sensor, perhaps that's what you have?

John,

It comes from the engine with a reed switch on one of the drivers.  The RS4 board (stock) works fine with the Chuff.  The RS6 board does not chuff.  I will be changing to your chuff generator at some point (I have the parts), but I don't know if that will make a difference.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Order fast, the only Legacy Berkshire RS 5.5 or 6.0 board that I find is this one.

Yeah, the B&A legacy engines use a railsound lite board.  Anyway those can be pinned up to work?  Also in any of the parts list, it has call Lionel, won't let you order online.  What's up with that?

C&O Allie posted:

The RS4 board (stock) works fine with the Chuff.  The RS6 board does not chuff.  I will be changing to your chuff generator at some point (I have the parts), but I don't know if that will make a difference.

Not sure what's happening there, I only recently did the experiment with the RS6 board, and my sample of one worked fine.

superwarp1 posted:

Yeah, the B&A legacy engines use a railsound lite board.  Anyway those can be pinned up to work?  Also in any of the parts list, it has call Lionel, won't let you order online.  What's up with that?

Well, almost anything can be "made to work".  The RS-Lite board is still on an exchange only is my understanding.  The older Legacy modular boards can be purchased directly.  The RS-Lite board is the same board as the ERR RailSounds Commander, but they change some connectors and obviously the code.

John,

Thanks.  I'll pull the board and try it in a different engine.  If it works there, then I am wondering if I should order a new main/power board for the T1 to replace the existing one to see if that fixes the issue.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 The really odd part is, sometimes I need it, and sometimes I don't.  Usually, I've needed it with the Cruise Commander M, apparently there is a greater load imposed on the serial data for that board than for the plain Cruise Commander.

I have done many ERR upgrades for people and reused their sound boards, But I haven't experienced an issue with the ERR board not communicating with the RS4 package. So I put it on hold for a while. (2years)  

Hi John,

So I did my testing.  My RS 5.0 board from my C&O berkshire worked fine with the T1.  I then took the RS 6.0 board and put it in the Berk's tender and got the exact same results - the chuff did not work, but everything else did.  I then tried the RS 5.0 board in the T1 and that worked fine.  So my last test, which I did not do yet, but will tonight, will be to put the RS6 board in one of my legacy engines to see if the chuff works there.  If it doesn't, I know the board is bad.  If it does work, then there is something going on with one of the other boards.

Can you let me know what boards you used where it worked?

Thanks in advance.

John,

Nevermind - its the board.  I put the RS6 board in a legacy tender for my C&O Ten Wheeler and no chuff, but everything else worked.  I then put the C&O's board in the T1 and it worked fine, so the RS6 board is broken as it doesn't have a chuff.

I'll be contacting Lionel to return the board and get a good one.  

Very odd, ask the Lionel folks if there's a reset of some kind.  It's strange that it wouldn't generate a chuff from the serial data, that would be a software issue.

If you get energetic, you might consider sending it to me, and I'll pop it on my tester to see if it works here with TMCC or Legacy.

Thanks - I'll see what they say.  It seems weird to me too.