What are the signs of when engine pick up rollers should be replaced?
Thanks
Rad400
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I've never had to replace one from wear. I would think if one was deeply grooved or would not spin freely then replace it. The newer can motor engines simply do not arc as the old ac pullmor motors do so grooving should not be an issue.
Rod Miller
The groove worn in the roller can get so deep that the sides of the roller will start hitting things that it should not hit. Look at your switches and uncoupling tracks and see if they are getting marked where nothing should be hitting. You could also have switch parts next to the center rail lifting the roller out of contact with the third rail causing arcing or loss of power. I would consider an 1/8" deep groove too deep. On post war equipment changing the roller is easy.
rad400 posted:What are the signs of when engine pick up rollers should be replaced?
Thanks
Rad400
what makes you believe the pick up roller needs replaced?
are you having issues?
might need cleaning.
bigdodgetrain posted:rad400 posted:What are the signs of when engine pick up rollers should be replaced?
Thanks
Rad400
what makes you believe the pick up roller needs replaced?
are you having issues?
might need cleaning.
The rollers are HOT to the point you can't touch them after the engine has been running for only a few minutes. The rollers are clean and there is no play between the roller and the shaft running through the roller. The rollers do not have grooves on them and the resistance between the roller and the housing of the pickup varies between 1 to 6 ohms. I am thinking the roller is going bad, due to the resistance in the roller, but was checking on what other people have come across.
Thanks,
rad400
Try a drop of oil on the rollers ,i had an engine that the rollers were getting hot & i put a drop of oil on them & thats all that was needed ,try it if that doesn't work then someone with more knowledge may chime in to advise you on what to do ,hope this helps.
Gerald Marafioti posted:Try a drop of oil on the rollers ,i had an engine that the rollers were getting hot & i put a drop of oil on them & thats all that was needed ,try it if that doesn't work then someone with more knowledge may chime in to advise you on what to do ,hope this helps.
The rollers have been oiled.
What oil did you use?
rad400 posted:bigdodgetrain posted:rad400 posted:What are the signs of when engine pick up rollers should be replaced?
Thanks
Rad400
what makes you believe the pick up roller needs replaced?
are you having issues?
might need cleaning.
The rollers are HOT to the point you can't touch them after the engine has been running for only a few minutes. The rollers are clean and there is no play between the roller and the shaft running through the roller. The rollers do not have grooves on them and the resistance between the roller and the housing of the pickup varies between 1 to 6 ohms. I am thinking the roller is going bad, due to the resistance in the roller, but was checking on what other people have come across.
Thanks,
rad400
unless you got some weird metal, roller pickups just do not go "bad".
Hot rollers are common if you are running ac pullmor motors. If can motors then hot rollovers are uncommon.
Rod Millerromiller49
I would also lube the motors and gears if you have AC pulmor motors. They could be drying out causing the motor to draw more amps. Also, check the connections from the transformer. Are the wires or connectors hot? loose?
Is the amperage use close the maximum of the transformer?
if you describe HOT, then something is going on. The engine is drawing too much power or the power is not getting there due to a wiring issue. To me, HOT means that you can't keep your finger on it.
I have seen some seriously worn or pitted rollers that called out for replacement.
I have also run across rollers that got very hot.
In some cases a surface cleaning with mineral spirits and drop of Caig Labs DeoxIT along the edge of the roller (so it wicks into the center hole) resolved the problem.
But in other cases, I had to physically remove the roller, clean the axle pin, and clean the hole through the roller with a bristled pipe cleaner wet with mineral spirits.
And if that fails, a new roller.
I have even seen rollers that did not make contact with the pickup assembly.
I guess that dirt / grime gets between the roller and it's axle, building up resistance.
A note on Caig Labs product: Caig will sell direct, but often their products are less expensive from resellers. I use their D100L-2 on trains, as well as some other products elsewhere. The stuff is expensive, but I have been on the same bottle for years. A little goes a long way.
The engine I am talking about is a DC can motor. I will try cleaning with electrical contact cleaner.
Could oiling the rollers cause resistance between the roller and the center shaft that goes through the roller? I have been using "liquid bearing".
Thanks for everyones input.
rad400
Could oiling the rollers cause resistance between the roller and the center shaft that goes through the roller? I have been using "liquid bearing".
The next time I am in my shop, I will measure the resistance between the roller and the solder tab of a brand new collector assembly.
I checked two Lionel collector assemblies:
new, old stock 41-18 collector assembly:
this assembly was sticky with some sort of metal protectant. I could not get a consistent reading, the meter jumped all over the place. The collector is going to need a good cleaning before it gets used.
41-18 collector assembly that is installed on a motor unit, it has very modest run time:
Again, the reading jumped around, depending on how much pressure was applied from the probe to the roller. I was using the flat part of an alligator clip. With a modest amount of pressure, the reading was about one tenth of an ohm.
So, if you are seeing 1-6 ohms, I'd say your rollers need cleaning.
Could oiling the rollers cause resistance between the roller and the center shaft that goes through the roller? I have been using "liquid bearing".
People are going to disagree on this, I think it is very possible that oiling the rollers can be contributing to the increased resistance. The clip from Lionel's Postwar customer manual below says not to oil axle type rollers.
Attachments
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Any oil can break down and gum up the rollers and cause increased electrical resistance.
Better to use silicone or de-oxid
rad400 posted:The engine I am talking about is a DC can motor. I will try cleaning with electrical contact cleaner.
Could oiling the rollers cause resistance between the roller and the center shaft that goes through the roller? I have been using "liquid bearing".
Thanks for everyones input.
rad400
Can you be more specific about the product/ "Liquid bearing":
Q: On the web I see a company called Liquid Bearing, are you affiliated?
A: Liquid Bearings is not affiliated with Liquid Bearing, the Canadian manufacturer of high quality additives and lubricants for the trucking industry.
liquid bearings is a 100% synthetic lube.
The former will most likely have additives that are eclectically non-conductive.
Liquid bearings will not divulge their ingredients.
Q: Who is the manufacturer of Liquid Bearings?
A: Liquid Bearings is a custom-designed blend of the highest quality 100%-synthetic oils and additives available in the world today. The manufacturers of those components are proprietary. Please be assured that our unblemished reputation for the performance of our oil is everything to us, so we only use the best of everything!!
No way to tell if their are any electrically non-conductive additives.
Silicone is a very good insulator. Might want to stay away from it.
Oil is an insulator. When I worked in a refinery we took the purest oil we could make and put into little glass jars marked Squibbs Minerial Oil. Anything left over was put into drums and labeled as insulating oil. It was sold to electric utilities for use in high voltage transformers as the insulating medium. Any additives could make it less of an insulator. If the oil is subject to arcing, carbon will be formed and the oil becomes conductive. I have used a conductive silver grease, but I think it would be too stiff for a roller axle. Another thing to check is the spring that pushes the roller down on to the rail. If that spring is weak the roller will run hot. To check the resistance of the collector assembly, try checking it on the track so the influence of the spring is included.
The only place I see "Liquid Bearings" offered for sale is on Ebay. Lots of listings claiming that it is good for all sorts of things. All the listings seem to be from the same seller.
How do we know it's plastic compatible?
How do we know its safe to use?
What's in it?
I will stick with name brand stuff.
Never heard of this stuff so went to their website. Interesting reading. According to the site it is compatible with plastics (they have a list of them there) and can be used for toys and model trains. Naturally, there are some testimonials addressing how good the stuff is. Probably worth checking out. There was no mention of conductive properties as far as I could see.
Currently I use Electralube as a conductive light grease and hob-e-lube for a light oil. I use nothing on pickup rollers.
Never heard of this stuff so went to their website
I couldn't find a website. Can you provide a link?
By the way, it is also listed on Amazon in a similar fashion. I am guessing its the same seller.
Sure enough, C.W. Here ya go: http://liquidbearings.com/index.php?page_id=6
Towards the top are links to properties, uses, etc. that I kind of ran through.
Problem resolved! As recommended above, I used a cleaning solution (CRC Electrical contact cleaner) on the roller and let it seep into the roller and then cleaned off what oozed out. Did this several times and the roller resistance went from 6 ohm down to .4 ohms (short) and roller does not get hot now.
Thanks for the comments/help,
RAD4000
Tripleo: Thank you for the link.
Rad400: glad you resolved your issue.
rad400 posted:Problem resolved! As recommended above, I used a cleaning solution (CRC Electrical contact cleaner) on the roller and let it seep into the roller and then cleaned off what oozed out. Did this several times and the roller resistance went from 6 ohm down to .4 ohms (short) and roller does not get hot now.
Thanks for the comments/help,
RAD4000
Thanks for the follow up. It should help someone else.
Glad to hear the situation is resolved.
It's nice when solutions are posted. Thanks RAD4000.
Rod Miller
