Researching the 1939 GM 103, FT Electro Motive Division (EMD) demonstrator units #103 and #103A and B units #103(b) and #103A(b)

Morning, Al.

Withers Publishing released a book specifically about the FT as part of its outstanding Diesel Era series of titles.

http://www.dieselera.com/#!pro...revolutionary-diesel

I have a copy and recommend it highly. The book is comprehensive in its coverage beginning with the introduction of the demonstrator and it then presents a thorough review of the sales and operational histories of the model. Are there particular pieces of information regarding the demonstrator and introductory tour which interest you? 

Bob 

Thanks Bob, I'll check it out.

I remember reading a while ago in "Railfan & Railroad" magazine that an A unit of the the original A-B-B-A set was in Mexico, possibly preserved or stored. It was Northern Pacific  prior to that. Like I said that was a while back.

I'm pretty sure Railfan and Railroad Magazine did a full issue on the 50th anniversary of the 103, when EMD had the big open-house celebration in October 1989. I can't remember exactly what month that R&R did that, but it was pretty much all written by Editor Jim Boyd.

I think 1989 may be right. I knew Jim Boyd from photo shoots he did on the NYS&W. He was a great guy.

Thanks for the photos, Al.  Interesting stuff.  It's fascinating, to me at least, to look at these pictures and consider that around the time they were taken, Hitler's invading Poland, Lou Gehrig's giving his farewell speech, and Batman is making his first appearance in comic books.     Guess I never really appreciated just how far back these demonstrators go.

I can't remember the name (or find it online) but there's a video/DVD that came out a while back on restoring the FT 103 A-B set (actually an original 103 A unit with an early production Southern B unit) by GM. It's a couple of hours long, and has old film of the original FT 103 A-B+B-A set, and a great history of all the F units. I have it somewhere, if I can dig it out I'll post more about it.

wjstix posted:

I can't remember the name (or find it online) but there's a video/DVD that came out a while back on restoring the FT 103 A-B set (actually an original 103 A unit with an early production Southern B unit) by GM. It's a couple of hours long, and has old film of the original FT 103 A-B+B-A set, and a great history of all the F units. I have it somewhere, if I can dig it out I'll post more about it.

That would be the Mark I video, much of which was shot at EMD in preparation for the big 1989 open house for the 50th anniversary of the FT demonstrator. A little known fact, the 4 section "set" (the tern 'unit' had yet to be used in 1938/1939), was originally numbered 1030 & 1031. The very first builder photos show 1030 and 1031 in the number boards. Nobody knows why the Sales Dept. had the number changed to "103" but the rest is history.

Yup that's it, "FT 103: The Diesel That Revolutionized Railroading in America" by Mark I Video, "Railfan Video Classics" series. I have the 1989 VHS tape, but I imagine it was reissued on CD at some time. Runs 2 hours, really good info on FT-103 and all F units.

Interestingly, the restored "FT 103" set had only the A unit powered. The B unit had I think been used as a heater car or something, and didn't have an engine...so a real case of "dummy" B unit!

CNJ 3676 posted:

Morning, Al.

Withers Publishing released a book specifically about the FT as part of its outstanding Diesel Era series of titles.

http://www.dieselera.com/#!pro...revolutionary-diesel

I have a copy and recommend it highly. The book is comprehensive in its coverage beginning with the introduction of the demonstrator and it then presents a thorough review of the sales and operational histories of the model. Are there particular pieces of information regarding the demonstrator and introductory tour which interest you? 

Bob 

Fantastic Bob, thanks for the link... This book will be a treasure...

wjstix posted:

Yup that's it, "FT 103: The Diesel That Revolutionized Railroading in America" by Mark I Video, "Railfan Video Classics" series. I have the 1989 VHS tape, but I imagine it was reissued on CD at some time. Runs 2 hours, really good info on FT-103 and all F units.

Interestingly, the restored "FT 103" set had only the A unit powered. The B unit had I think been used as a heater car or something, and didn't have an engine...so a real case of "dummy" B unit!

Thank Stix, I'll look into getting the DVD. Much appreciate your input here on this.

Al

Both Ron Nixon and Warren McGee photographed the 103 in freight and passenger service on the NP in 1940.    Seventeen of their photos are available on line in the Ron Nixon collection of the Museum of the Rockies.  The second photo that you posted was taken by Ron Nixon in Missoula, MT on March 6, 1940.  Note that the NP's dynamometer car is behind the 103.

http://www.morphotoarchive.org/rvndb/

Ron Nixon captured the 103 in Missoula on March 16, 1940 with 121 cars and 6141 tons. 

Ted Hikel posted:

 

While you think you may be looking at an ABBA set you are actually looking at two locomotives each made up of a cab and a booster that were not identified individually.  Hence the front two are 103( or 103A) and the rear two are 103A (or 103).  The cab and the booster were connected by a drawbar and could not be operated individually or separated outside shops for several reasons including the cab not having the batteries necessary to start it and the booster having no controls at all.  The cab unit also had the fuel tank and the booster had a water tank for the steam generators and no fuel tank.  Later on the railroads identified them individually but not at this time.  These were sold to the Southern RR and became their #6900.  One of those two cab units was the one restored for the 50th anniversary (I think 103A) and the booster was also owned by the Southern RR but not part of this set.

A little family history. My Grandfather worked for Southern and kept this instruction manual from his first run on a diesel as the transition from diesel began in 1941. The EMC numbers look familiar to  ones mentioned by Hot Water.  Not the best pics, but I hope to scan the entire manual this week. 

PAUL ROMANO posted:

I remember reading a while ago in "Railfan & Railroad" magazine that an A unit of the the original A-B-B-A set was in Mexico, possibly preserved or stored. It was Northern Pacific  prior to that. Like I said that was a while back.

I believe the Mexican FT A was originally a Northern Pacific unit; there are pictures online showing it preserved at a Mexican railroad museum in Puebla, but there's no sign of the B unit that was its mate.

MTN posted:

PAUL ROMANO posted:

I remember reading a while ago in "Railfan & Railroad" magazine that an A unit of the the original A-B-B-A set was in Mexico, possibly preserved or stored. It was Northern Pacific  prior to that. Like I said that was a while back.

I believe the Mexican FT A was originally a Northern Pacific unit;...

The Sonora-Baja California bought one FTA and one FTB from Northern Pacific.  The FT's were not used for long.  I personally saw the FTA, out in the dead line, at the S-BC shop in Benjamin Hill, Sonora, in 1980.

Maybe someone else knows for sure, whether the NP FT's were drawbar-connected or could be operated individually.

As information on the NP's FT's---the cab and booster units had solid drawbars, but one end of each booster units had reqular drawbars. Example: 5400A-B and 5400DC.

From NP Eddie

rs1960 posted:

As information on the NP's FT's---the cab and booster units had solid drawbars, but one end of each booster units had reqular drawbars. Example: 5400A-B and 5400DC.

From NP Eddie

 

Well, except for the Santa Fe FT units, pretty much ALL FT units were delivered with the "A Unit" drawbar connected to the "B Unit". Coupler conversion kits were offered later for those railroads desiring to eliminate the drawbar.

The NP's FTA's and FTB's had semi-permantly drawbars with standard drawbars between the B and C units (that is between the two boosters), as 5400A-B and 5400D-C.

Ed Burns

Happily retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis, MN

I found 2 different replies on the NP FT's from Ed Burns

rs1960 posted:

The NP's FTA's and FTB's had semi-permantly drawbars with standard drawbars between the B and C units (that is between the two boosters), as 5400A-B and 5400D-C.

Ed Burns

Happily retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis, MN

Please explain what a "semi-permeant" drawbar is vs. a "standard" drawbar.

What I get from this is the standard drawbar would have the standard knuckle coupler assy.

CNJ 3676 posted:

Morning, Al.

Withers Publishing released a book specifically about the FT as part of its outstanding Diesel Era series of titles.

http://www.dieselera.com/#!pro...revolutionary-diesel

I have a copy and recommend it highly. The book is comprehensive in its coverage beginning with the introduction of the demonstrator and it then presents a thorough review of the sales and operational histories of the model. Are there particular pieces of information regarding the demonstrator and introductory tour which interest you? 

Bob 

It is a very informative book on the FT. I highly recommend it.

wjstix posted:

Yup that's it, "FT 103: The Diesel That Revolutionized Railroading in America" by Mark I Video, "Railfan Video Classics" series. I have the 1989 VHS tape, but I imagine it was reissued on CD at some time. Runs 2 hours, really good info on FT-103 and all F units.

Interestingly, the restored "FT 103" set had only the A unit powered. The B unit had I think been used as a heater car or something, and didn't have an engine...so a real case of "dummy" B unit!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320839...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

FT 103: The Diesel That Revolutionized Railroading in America" by Mark I Video DVD on Ebay

Micro Trains did a conversion kit, but the cost was prohibitive---apparently delrin plastic was hard to come by back then... ����

Jeff C

CNJ 3676 posted:

Morning, Al.

Withers Publishing released a book specifically about the FT as part of its outstanding Diesel Era series of titles.

http://www.dieselera.com/#!pro...revolutionary-diesel

I have a copy and recommend it highly. The book is comprehensive in its coverage beginning with the introduction of the demonstrator and it then presents a thorough review of the sales and operational histories of the model. Are there particular pieces of information regarding the demonstrator and introductory tour which interest you? 

Bob 

I have this book as well and it was an excellent resource when doing research for 3rd Rail's FT project from a few years back.