Ross Standard Gauge Switches

Thanks for the review and pictures. Those switches look great - I wish they had been available when I was building a yard for our museum layout! I had to design a bunch of bananas instead of a conventional yard ladder because of the space requirements of the MTH switches, and it took me two hours per switch to modify the connecting track and get the switches to work right. 

 

The DC problem could also be solved with a bridge rectifier on the auxiliary circuit for the switches, if there isn't a DC transformer handy. Most Lionel-type accessories will run fine on DC (some actually work better), so running a DC accessory circuit wouldn't have a down side for most operators. 

 

As I understand it, the complex frog setup was designed specifically to accommodate old large-gear Standard Gauge locomotives that cause problems on Lionel-type switches like the MTH. I've been told that Steve Ross got some help from SGMA to make sure his switch is 100% compatible with all available Standard Gauge equipment, including rare antiques like the Boucher locomotives. 

From your very good photos, it appears that the factory left out a critical part: namely the guard rails that are placed opposite the frog, to prevent the wheel at the frog end of an axle from "picking" the frog. The guard rail keeps the wheel at the other end of the axle running true along the outside rail.  Take a look at any toy or real train switch and you'll see what I mean.

 

In this diagram, they are the short black rails with the ends turned in.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi..._AiguillageAnime.gif

 

 

Even the MTH one that you show in the first photo has the guard rails. I wonder why they would go to the trouble of a movable frog, when a couple of fixed guard rails might have sufficed?

I have had a Ross #4 RH Standard Gauge switch (probably serial #0001 - if one were keeping track - according to a phone conversation I had with Steve) on my layout for the last 9 months.  No problems at all - moved the switch machine to the other side and added a bridge rectifier to convert the AC from the wiring that originally went to the MTH switch to DC.

Actually, the guard rail is not needed as the wheels never loose contact with the rails. In a typical turnout (even prototypical) the frog creates a hole in the track. With the moving frog, the rail is continuous no matter which direction the turnout is switched. Why go thru the trouble of making a moving-frog switch? Because it works flawlessly.

 

I use a pair of these on my layout and can run anything thru them. Never a derailment either......never. I was hesitant at first regarding the higher price of one of these turnouts, but after having them installed and seeing how much aggravation they have saved me, it was well worth the extra price. I would buy more if I had the room to use them. These are definitely the first choice in SG turnouts by far. Especially if you have a turnout that is out of reach, this is the one to use. You don't need to worry about it.

 

ARNO

One ?. Can the switch motor be mounted underneath the layout?

Could we get them to make some with pea green plastic

 

Steve

I always wondered if all the parts could be put on a MTH base.

Is the switch non-derailing? The outside rails are not insulated like the MTH.

You could always paint them! Not sure I would want them pea green. These switches match the black #223 switches!

 

I love the tinplate look, but don't need it on the switches. I'd rather save the good looking metal for on top of the rails! I also rather not have a big, towering switch machine (which you can't move to the outside). When some of my trains are over 30" long that I run thru the switches, these things get in the way.

 

Keep running them trains!

 

ARNO

The switches are not non-derailing as they arrive from Ross.

 

Unlike the Gargraves SG switches, but like the MTH, the hot center rails of the switch are all connected together by wires under the switch, so the switch need be fed power from only one branch. Something to keep in mind particularly when wiring for DCS.

 

One other issue I have with the newly installed Ross switches is with my indicator lights.  I use block signals for this, to indicate which way the switch is thrown: red for curved, green for straight.  With the MTH switches, just connect the green and red wires from the signal to the green and red on the switch, and the signal stays lit green all the time when the switch is in the straight positon, and the red stays lit when the switch is in the curved position.

 

That doesn't work with the Ross switches. The signal lights up momentarily as the toggle is thumbed, then go dark: they are powered only as the switch motor is powered.  Somebody probably knows a simple way to wire this so the signals stay lit?  Again, the switches are powered by DC: can I assume that the block signal will work as well on DC, or do I need a different bulb?

 

I notice that in this and my previous post, I have made comparisons with the Gargraves SG switch.  It is not my intention to rag on the Gargraves, I have experienced them to be a great switch and very dependable.  I still have 7 or 8 on the layout. They do have a couple of minor flaws, as do the MTH, but I use and enjoy both.  

 

Again, the switches are powered by DC: can I assume that the block signal will work as well on DC, or do I need a different bulb?

A light bulb is a resistance device. It doesn't care if it gets AC or DC, as long as the voltage is appropriate. 

 

The only exception would be if the bulb is an LED. An LED requires DC; if you are running an LED off AC there is a rectifier diode in the circuit somewhere. If you apply DC to a circuit that has a diode in it, it will only work if the DC power is connected with the same polarity as the diode. So if an AC-diode setup doesn't work on DC, normally you should just be able to swap the wires and it works. None of this applies to an ordinary incandescent light bulb, which works on AC or DC. 

Back when i purchased the LCT AF Presidential Set from Kirk of Just Trains, he explained the difference between the TWO different MTH Switches available at that time.  The conversation is now vague in my mind.  Can anyone refresh me on the differences??? How much more expensive is the Ross switch???  I am running nothing more exotic than the 400E, 392, 1835, etc. plus all of the Modern Classic/LCT trains INCLUDING the BRUTE...which trains should I not bother with if I get MTH switches?  Should I aim for 100% Ross?  Sorry for all the questions, but I don't wanna spend "bad" money here!!!

I have 5 of the Ross Switches in service for about 9 months.  No problems.  They are worth the money for smoth operation and reliability.  Derailment problems are zero.

Anybody want some Lionel switches, I have a few in the crappy switch box.

Have a Merry **** and Happy New Year.

Al

 

P.S. 

As for cost, I got mine for $110.00 each plus transportation.  Cheaper than playing golf!

Ron I own most of the above listed stuff except the Brute. They all work going through MTH 72 switches. The only engine that derails everytime is the Super 381.

 

I have 9 MTH 72 switches I could sell you in whole or in part for $55 each plus freight. I will use the money to upgrade to Ross because I feel it is worth it. Ross 72 is $129.95 and Ross #4 is $149.95.

The Super 381 derails on the curved path of an MTH 72" switch because the corner of the pilot fouls the actuator arm. You can do some filing on the arm and/or the pilot, and if you run through the switch very slowly it might not derail - but it's iffy, and there's no excuse for MTH selling a loco and switch that won't work together. It's OK on the straight.  I've never run a Brute, but I doubt it would navigate the switch. 

 

Personally, after installing MTH 72" switches on the museum layout and living with them for a year or two, I would not take one as a gift. I hope to replace them with Ross whenever the governing board comes up with the money. 

Ron, as far as I know, the only SG switches MTH makes are the 42 and 72; they are essentially identical except for the radius of the curved part, and the well-known difficulty where the tinplate base interferes with attaching tubular track at one point on the 72.

 

Your other questions are ones that a lot of us are asking.  To some extent the answers are going to vary.  I run the Super 381, and the Lionel Hiawatha and Comm Vanderbilt, none of which nor any other of my SG locos (400's, 408's, 9, 3245's, 1134's, McCoys, etc) derail on the MTH switches.  The Ross certainly seem to be excellent switches, and I would encourage giving them a try, but they are new and as with any first run, it may be prudent to wait a bit and see how they shake out before buying a boatload.

 

SWHi, thank you for the info.  And you are right, the Ross is an unusual beast in having no guardrails.  If you like running the Lionel trolleys, these are your switches.

 

I put the Super 381 on the track and the frame hit the center rail of the curved track. What a lousy design to make that frame so low. It also hits the MTH lockons.

 

I read somewhere there is a fix where they shim the frame up from the trucks to give clearance for all this stuff.

SGMA members did indeed work with Ross in the development of these switches and they were put to use for the first time on a SGMA layout at Trainfest 2012 where they preformed flawlessly.  In the development process Kirk recommended some slight wiring changes and recently made production switches may already have these wiring enhancement incorporated into them.  They worked so well during Trainfest that SGMA is now considering modifying our standards to allow use of these switches on our 87 mainline, which previously had to be "clean", i.e., switch free.  I was so impressed I ordered 8!

 

Bob

A question for navy.seal.....

 

During the Trainfest 2012 trials, did anyone run an early Lionel engine equipped with the slider shoe over the Ross switches? I would be interested knowing the performance of both the slider shoe and the large gear as the engine traveled through the switch.

 

Thanks for taking time to respond!

Owen
I have had a prototype in testing on my layout for nearly 2 years, with hundreds of locos an car trucks across the turnout

I have never had a single derailment or picked point at the frog or turnout rails. The problems arise on the Lionel and mth switches with the wheel uplift at the frog plus wide treads and big gears on wheels and long wheelbase 4 wheel truck like on some flyer and Ives cars actually catching the guardrail... The geometry and design of Steve's switch resolves every issue .... I have seen  never have had an issue with any shoe or roller save one that was off kilter on a beater flyer caboose

I haven't heard if any issues from the other prototype tester since we started.

Rest assured folks... If the SGMA is considering allowing them on the clean loop then you and I should rest easy about them

 

The Lionel 42 with large gears and slider pickups ran through the Ross design like butter during my testing.

Jim,

Looks pretty good to me.  I'll be in for a couple.  I hope that you tinplate guys are back at the Monroeville,PA show soon.

Merry Christmas.

 

Norm Rish