Ross Switches: How to keep non-derailing rail tips apart where they meet at the frog?

Could you cut and glue in the gap a piece of styrene plastic, painted black?

@BenLMaggi posted:

Could you cu and glue in the gab a piece of styrene plastic, painted black?

I am not sure what I would glue it to.
That is the guidance that I am looking for.

Maybe a drop or tow of hot blue would do the trick.
it might stick to the tie enough to stay in place, and hold those tips apart.

If they would, simply, bevel off the corners of those rail flanges, at manufacture, the problem would be solved, and they would never come in contact.

Roger, maybe there is a glue or epoxy solution that would work.  If not, there is another solution to possibly consider, keeping in mind that I don't have any actual experience with Ross switches.  Anyway, here's my thought.

If you were to loosen the 4 rail clips, circled in blue (maybe they're staples) on both sides of the short rail, it appears that the rail could slide out the end of the switch.  You could then file off the offending rail flange indicated by black smudges where the red arrows are pointing, slide it back into place and re-tighten the clips. This should create a sufficient gap between the rails where they meet at the frog.

@SteveH posted:

Roger, maybe there is a glue or epoxy solution that would work.  If not, there is another solution to possibly consider, keeping in mind that I don't have any actual experience with Ross switches.  Anyway, here's my thought.

If you were to loosen the 4 rail clips, circled in blue (maybe they're staples) on both sides of each short rail, it appears that the rails  could slide out the end of the switch.  You could then file off the offending rail flange indicated by black smudges where the red arrows are pointing, slide it back into place and re-tighten the clips. This should create a sufficient gap between the rails where they meet at the frog.

Bingo.

You really only need to file one of them back. Pull the spikes out of one side of the rail, pull the rail file the edge and put it back. You dont need to re-glue it, but if theres glue on the bottom of the rails, just touch the rail flange above the tie with a soldering iron, it'll melt the glue and re-attach it.

Dremel cutoff wheel.

Bondic might work nicely. We have some and you can build it in layers. It is very simple and fast to use.

I think I'd use something like a dab of JB-Weld.

@dkdkrd posted:

Black card stock.   

BTW...Isn't it nice to be able to call a company...like Ross..., talk with 'Mr. Big', Steve, who is there and cares to help you, and gives you a solution...that works??  Better than a sleeping pill.

KD

Absolutely,
Steve is awesome.

I actually went to his factory a couple of years back and he gave my wife and me the grand tour.
I have also spent a lot of money with him, and I believe his equipment is worth every cent.

Now, I mostly email him, and let him respond at his leisure.
I always get a response within a day

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think I'd use something like a dab of JB-Weld.

Thanks for all of the suggestions.
I like the idea of JB Weld.
I am reasonably sure that is I force a good gap between those flange tips, clean them with some alcohol, then ad a dab of JB-Weld, it would stick to them, and form down in between them to hold them apart, even if it didn't stick to the wooden tie beneath.
That stuff really sticks.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dremel cutoff wheel.

That's what I used. Diamond abrasive cutoff wheel. Cuts a very fine line. I used a drop of gel CA in the gap and once it's cured the rails can never touch. Hard to even see the repair. I had my brother hold a vacuum close to the cutoff wheel while I ran the grinder.  I also ran a big magnet over the area to pick up any filings.          j

@JohnActon posted:

That's what I used. Diamond abrasive cutoff wheel. Cuts a very fine line. I used a drop of gel CA in the gap and once it's cured the rails can never touch. Hard to even see the repair. I had my brother hold a vacuum close to the cutoff wheel while I ran the grinder.  I also ran a big magnet over the area to pick up any filings.          j

Great plan.
But I have to ask:
Did you use the cut off wheel on the rail flange tips?
If so, how did you get the diameter down in there without cutting up the frog?

I use Cratex wheels in the Dremel to shape the rail flange tips for the moveable rails.  Year ago a friend gave me this kit.  Until recently, I had no idea how expensive the little things were, but they do work great!

CRATEX Rubberized Abrasive Introductory Set - Mfr #777 Kit

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I use Cratex wheels in the Dremel to shape the rail flange tips for the moveable rails.  Year ago a friend gave me this kit.  Until recently, I had no idea how expensive the little things were, but they do work great!

Yes this kit is expensive.
That is a very good friend indeed

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think I'd use something like a dab of JB-Weld.

I just ordered JB-Weld and Acetone cleaner.

Probably too late but what about liquid electrical tape on the tie bar between the two rails

Not sure about the description of the problem.  I was able to use styrene strips to isolate the two short rails near the frog.

I've also done some isolation as pictured below.

Edit/Add: 3:05 DST Eastern, Sometimes there are (2) track spikes near the frog that may

have to be removed/or re-positioned.

With something like that, I'd want to secure it with an adhesive to keep it there long term.   I'd probably also make it shorter so I could hide it.

I did a topic on this issue a while back, and for my fix I used a piece of a black heavy duty zip tie.  I cut the other end at an angle to form a point and pushed it into the roadbed, then glued it.

Zip tie is a nice solution. Before I use any of Ross's turnouts I test them with a switch motor installed as well to avoid after-placed issues. Sometimes installing can stress the turnout and my "tests" don't account for that.

I bench tested them before placement, but I had to tweak a bunch of them after the fact, and I'm still working with a final couple that are resisting perfection.

The Devil is always in the details.

@CAPPilot posted:

I did a topic on this issue a while back, and for my fix I used a piece of a black heavy duty zip tie.  I cut the other end at an angle to form a point and pushed it into the roadbed, then glued it.

Based on this suggestion, I am now considering a sort of hybrid approach.
I am considering using the piece of black Zip Tie, cut at a sharp angle, then pushed into the wood tie, then anchored in place with the JB-Weld.
Sounds like a pretty iron clad plan.
But of course the proof will be in the actual doing.

@RWL posted:

Based on this suggestion, I am now considering a sort of hybrid approach.
I am considering using the piece of black Zip Tie, cut at a sharp angle, then pushed into the wood tie, then anchored in place with the JB-Weld.
Sounds like a pretty iron clad plan.
But of course the proof will be in the actual doing.

Actually, that is what I did.  Memory is not that great and its been a while since I did it, but that is why you need a stiff piece of plastic.  To push it into the soft tie material.

@CAPPilot posted:

Actually, that is what I did.  Memory is not that great and its been a while since I did it, but that is why you need a stiff piece of plastic.  To push it into the soft tie material.

I went one better.
I drilled approx. a 3/32" hole thru the tie, between the rail flange tips, and right up against the frog.
The pic shows a hole not quite up against the frog, but that was the first hole that I drilled.
I then cut the piece of a black zip-tie, with a sharp point, as shown in the pic below, and forced it down into the hole in the tie, so that it is truly locked in place.
When the JB-Weld goes on, and around this piece, it should hold everything well in place, and never allow any contact.

A lot of fabulous information here.....thank you to all who posted!

Peter

when i was first putting my layout together and had not read about this i was going crazy since my non derailing kept throwing the wrong way.  Now, like above a tiny piece of stryene, no more issues.

It can be more of a project with Atlas switches, since the frog is metal.  Note the addition styrene near the frog to isolate the short trigger rail section.

I am building a new layout using traditional Lionel tinplate track and so I plan to use a number of the Ross Plate tubular rail switches.  I am glad I read this thread because the first ross plate switch I installed and tested had the same issue noted by the OP.  Turns out it was the  same problem, there was a screw touching both anti derail track pieces.  This is a simple fix for the ross plate switches when you find the problem- remove the offending screw.  Top picture shows the screw removed and the bottom one shows the screw in place.

It looks like the upper (in pictures) anti-derail track is not aligned properly with the frog.  I hope it is just the camera angle.

That does look terrible. Just checked it and it is fine, good guess on the camera angle.