Good info FLYERMIKE! Thanks.
logcruiser posted:I just spoke with Ro about the return of my UP. I was told they are opening, inspecting, and running the engines before shipping any more.
Does anyone have a good running UP? I may need to see if I can get a Santa Fe instead.
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When my UP came it was in a big box. The loco was wrapped separately and was not in its own box. My assumption was that someone at Ro had tested it. So far, mine is running without issues.
I received my replacement UP GP7 and today I tested it. All features were good until I tested the front coupler. It would not open on command. Looking through the front pilot I could see one wire broken off. Under the hood, you can see there was not enough slack left in the coupler wires for following curves. Too short. One wire does not reach and one is barely hanging onto the solenoid. See the photo. This does not look like an easy fix as I think the attachment point is under shrink wrap tape. Anyone else have this problem? Also it does not like S-Trax, derailing in a few track joints where the inside surface of the rails are not perfectly aligned. Gauging or maybe rail is not tall enough (possible issues). So it was fun to run and the bluetooth app is very nice! But no working front coupler! DARN. Anyone fixed a coil coupler and have advice...or send it back yet again?
Guys,
Many of you have known me for all the problems I have had with Lionel Flyer items. I told myself (an others) that I would NEVER buy another. Well, (as they say) never say never. I was taken by the UP Geep paint job, and the fact that I always wanted a Gilbert one, but couldn't find one for a decent price. So when the new ones were announced with their better looking trucks, and for such a great price, I bit the bullet. Well, the bullet bit back.
My Geep came in, and I tested it for loose trucks, screws, faulty paint and then put it on the track. Powering up the remote (with new batteries) all seemed well! I gave it a lube and it was a bit hesitant, but in a few laps, it smoothed out nicely. Quieter too. I fired up the Blue Tooth app, and it gave me more features! Great! The loco wouldn't pull more than 8 cars without spinning the wheels, but that's all I wanted to pull anyway. I was even going to paint the pilot steps to match, and mixed up a batch of paint to do that when I ran the train around to a convenient spot to take the locomotive off the track. The front headlight wasn't working. Now, if it were the ElectroCouplers, I'd not even bat an eye since I don't plan on doing any switching with the thing anyway. But a HEADLIGHT? I suspect a cut or shorted out wire. Am I going to attempt the repair? No way. The board is probably fried from an LED shorting out. Someone else reported a cut wire due to the flywheel cutting into it. It's going back! Lionel strikes again!
On mine I also had to push the LED leads up against the top of the shell as flywheel was cutting into the wires.
Jerry, it seems like you always have bad luck. Too bad!!
I have run my UP for hours now and have not had an issue. I am still very pleased with it.
Oh, I forgot. My UP will pull 21 Gilbert freight cars, which is a max as more and the weight pulls them off at the corners of my Gilbert track. It will do 16 cars on my main line with Gilbert trestles that includes a turn at the top. This is as good an any of my Legacy diesels with two motors.
I found mine will pull a lot of cars on level track. But try going up an incline and it would only pull 4 Gilbert cars before slipping to the point of stalling. There is really no weight over the power truck to hold it down on the track
Roundhouse Bill posted:Jerry, it seems like you always have bad luck. Too bad!!
I have run my UP for hours now and have not had an issue. I am still very pleased with it.
Bill, it seems you always have good luck. Good for you!
I have run Lionel Flyer things for minutes and always have issues. I am sick of their junk.
If the dealer won't make good on this thing (and it shouldn't be up to the dealers to correct the defects in design/assembly) I'm sending it back anyway for spare parts. That's all it's good for. If any good parts can be found. Keep the money. Lesson learned. I also purchased the add-on PE car. I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. It probably has broken wires, a cracked shell, wrong frame, broken side frames, broken coupler, or any combination of the above. I guarantee it WILL have poorly gauged wheels. As a consist for the UP Geep, I have a series (8) of previously issued Lionel Flyer UP freight cars. All NIB. EVERY ONE of them had a problem from poorly gauged wheels to side frames that crumbled upon removal from the box.
I'll probably be moderated for this post, but I don't care any more.
Jerry, I bought the new Polar Express car and the wiring was completely redesigned with wire Longer, thicker, and soldered. You should have no problem with it.
I have the L-AF NKP GP7 and at this time its been on the layout for about 12 days. The GP7 is being used to pull a consist of 8 cars made up of all of those NKP freight rolling stock that Lionel made in the mid-90s. I've been operating on good ol' Gilbert track and switches. No issues. Not Legacy, but well-suited for its mission in life.
Bob
Only the rear coil coupler on mine works, but it does not open far enough to release the rolling stock. I have tried this with newer Flyer bocxcars, 1950's boxcars, and S-Helper cars. They do not disconnect. Perhaps with a heavier string of cars?
Sgauger
Sgauger posted:Only the rear coil coupler on mine works, but it does not open far enough to release the rolling stock. I have tried this with newer Flyer bocxcars, 1950's boxcars, and S-Helper cars. They do not disconnect. Perhaps with a heavier string of cars?
Sgauger
The electrocouplers on my NKP GP7 sample uncouple and couple dependably with the newest version of the L-AF knuckle coupler (e.g., the coupler fitted to the new cylindrical hoppers). My trials utilized a three car consist. However, on various other "Gilbert compatible couplers", your mileage may vary, as Sgauger is indicating. The length of the knuckle fitted on a coupler in question may have an effect (shorter = better). Dave and the guys at the Circle L Ranch were likely using the newest version of the L-AF knuckle coupler in their product development; hence what I am observing.
Bob
I sent an email to Charles Ro customer service on the 11th with the details on my inop front coupler but no response. Guess I will call and be the squeaky wheel.
I also emailed my dealer with no response. A phone call is in order. I've been assured by another S guy who I respect greatly that the dealer will make good. Now to find the time to call, and become the squeaky wheel.
I got lucky and did not order any! I am done taking chances on Lionel Quality.
Gunny
banjoflyer posted:
I was able to push the shim between the washer and the chassis with a tweezers. The wobble was then gone. I know it's Rube Goldberg fix but it beats maybe ruining something else.
Mark
If it works, don't knock it! Ingenious fix. I haven't taken mine out of the box yet. In keeping my expectations low, I'm rarely disappointed.
Well, I am packing up what I want to run at the big train show in Plano TX this weekend. I selected the Flyonel UP streamlined passenger set with all the extra pieces, A-B-A and 9 cars. I tested the PA and lubed the rest then let the train run.
Then I took off the powered PA and put my new GP7 on the front. That little engine with only one motor pulled it almost as well as the 2 motored PA. Just a little strain at first and it was off.
I don't understand how some of you are having trouble with it pulling more that 8 freight cars. There must be a minor problem with the weak engines. I hope someone here can give a weak one another look and find a solution.
I "Priority Mailed" my UP GP-7 back to Ro for the second time. They were very polite on the phone and vowed to fix the broken wire front coupler rather than try another replacement. No idea on turn-around time. Will report back on this.
Just got a FEDEX tracking email today...that my second time returned UP is inbound already. I shipped it last Friday. They can't have had it long enough for a repair. Replacement perhaps? Anyway that was really fast.
I had the opportunity to see a friend and fellow-club member's FC UP Geep in action this past weekend. Nice fit and finish. His sounded and operated well too. It was also my first experience with the LChief app (controlling the engine on his iPhone). Two features of that which I was not aware of and quite impressed by (i.e. wish Legacy included) were the ability to adjust the top speed the engine can reach (great when handing the phone or FC controller over to perhaps a less experienced or more thrill-seeking operator), and the ability to adjust the pitch of the horn and the bell. Pretty cool. I don't think either function is available on the FC remote control, but the setting stays with the engine until changed/reset even after you turn it or your phone off. Could yet put me over the top to make my first FC purchase, but a Legacy Berk is a calling too...
poniaj posted:I also emailed my dealer with no response. A phone call is in order. I've been assured by another S guy who I respect greatly that the dealer will make good. Now to find the time to call, and become the squeaky wheel.
Well, I got the the engine back from the dealer in record time. He told me that I could send it to Lionel or his place. However, he had a 4-6 week back-up of repairs. Since the paperwork was hard to find, I sent it to him. It was less than a week, plus shipping time (and procrastination on my part). The light works fine. A note said it was a burned out LED. Now, how many LEDs ever go bad? In the many years I've been working on trains, I've never had one go out. But he replaced it, and re-routed the wires so the flywheel won't contact a wire again. LEDs aren't covered on warranty, so he charged me for the LED. Less than $3, and didn't charge labor. Very fair. In the very remote possibility that I will ever buy any more Lionel Flyer products, it will be from him. I'll still have to find a place to add weight to the unit since it isn't a very good puller. I've noticed that other have had this same problem with the newest Geeps. I have some older ones that can pull tree stumps, but this one has problems in that department. By the way, I'm mixing up a batch of paint to match the UP grey so I can paint the pilots like Union Pacific did. I'll post photos when done.
I have two new GP'S. The other day I hooked up 16 cars to one of the new GP. Pulled the cars without any problem on spinning wheels or unable to pull the cars. I was able to pull the train fast or slow and very very slow. No problem with both GP's. Now, I also have an older UP made about 10years ago? It's the lionel style with a vertical motor with a flywheel and the spur gears on the side the the truck frame. This loco could not pull the 15 cars with out spinning its wheels and moving the cars down the track. Now to see why this loco cannot pull the 15 cars.
While my UP Geep won't pull (comfortably) seven cars up a grade, I haven't tried any on a level surface. But I removed the shell to determine where any weight can be put. Here's what it looks like inside:
There is a bit of room between the motor and the circuit board:
I'm going to get some lead stick-on weights from the auto parts store tomorrow and see if it makes any difference.
Interesting that the dummy truck looks like it can be motorized with the proper gears and can motor. I bet if there were two motors, this thing could pull tree stumps. It doesn't seem to weigh any less than previous Geeps, but with the weight distributed on two trucks, more is needed on the driven one :
While I was perusing the insides, I noticed that the circuit board had a couple empty sockets. I wonder what they're for?
More tomorrow.
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We seem to have two threads going on that are very similar, but here's my "solution" to my UP Geep's poor performance. I went to the auto part store to find those stick-on weights. They had them but they're no longer made of lead (Pb). Are they afraid we're going to eat them or something? Oh well. They're still heavy and have adhesive on them (they're iron, BTW). The ones I got are in .25 oz. increments. I added a total of 1.5 oz. and it made a difference. I tested it on my layout, and it pulled my 7 cars up the grade with no wheel slipping. On level track, I'm sure more can be pulled. I also cleaned the track and wheels, but they were fairly clean to begin with. So here's my weights in place.
They had to be staggered like this to clear the shell. It was a tight fit, but they fit nicely (notice the pencil marks on the deck). I couldn't add any weights in the front of the motor due to the wires for the electro-coupler. By the way, in the process, I broke a wire leading to the coupler, but was able to re-solder it in place after carefully removing the Mylar tape surrounding the coil. I know, I know. I voided the warranty, but at this point, it doesn't matter any more. In the process, I also mixed up a batch of Testor's Model Master grey paint to try to match the UP grey so I can paint the pilots. They aren't a perfect match, but they're look better than black. If I find a better match, I'll repaint them, but for now, it's fine. I've tried matching Lionel colors in the past, and they're difficult to match, but I used to use Floquil paints. They're no longer available, so I use whatever I can find, but NO KINDERGARTEN WATER BASED FINGER PAINTS!
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What I do not understand is why there is such a large variance in pulling power experienced by the owners of these engines. As I commented in the other thread my new UP pulled 14 Gilbert freight cars up a 2% grade around a 180 degree curve, no signs of slippage. When I get some free time I will see how many cars it will pull up a 2.4% grade before slipping or stalling.
poniaj posted:
While I was perusing the insides, I noticed that the circuit board had a couple empty sockets. I wonder what they're for?
Programming connectors. Top right is Bluetooth. One in center is engine code.
The test results are in. 20 car freight, 2% grade, 180 degree curve. The UP was able to strart the train on this grade, slight wheelspin while accelerating, none at steady speed. I was surprised how much force it took me to pull the train by hand, indicates I need to lube the wheelsets! This engine is a great puller.
Here is a picture of the test area.
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AmFlyer - that’s what I am looking for ! I do not understand the difference of pulling power! That much motor difference?
Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?
katy409 posted:AmFlyer - that’s what I am looking for ! I do not understand the difference of pulling power! That much motor difference?
Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?
It isn't that you motor is any different to others, if the wheels are slipping it has the power but just can't lay it down to the track.
Could it be that one of the wheels is not touching the track and causing a problem, clutching at straws now.
banjoflyer posted;Jerry, I agree that adding weight by the motor will help. With the space shown it looks like you could secure tall slender pill bottles on both sides of the motor...front and rear. Then you could add lead pellets or BB's and add the cap. Maybe that way you can add precise amounts of weight by varying the amount of pellets.
Mark
There's no room in front of the motor due to the wires leading to the electro coupler and the light holder in front of the shell.
The weights I added can be augmented by more if needed. I'll try to add more cars on a grade for my own benefit to see what this thing can do. I have no doubt that on level track it can do much better. (I still like the grey pilots.
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Great information for this problem! Keep us posted your progress!
katy409 posted:Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?
Can't add a second motor but looking into adding weights near the motor.
Question for Dave:
Is there any chance we could see a more scale/detailed version of this geep in the future? Sorta like what you did with the Berk? Or not because the Berk was designed with that in mind? Just curious as this model doesn't cut it for a lot of people. It looks too toy-like.
Thanks.
jonnyspeed posted:Question for Dave:
Is there any chance we could see a more scale/detailed version of this geep in the future? Sorta like what you did with the Berk? Or not because the Berk was designed with that in mind? Just curious as this model doesn't cut it for a lot of people. It looks too toy-like.
Thanks.
Can't rule it out. It would be a challenging one to fit Legacy in. We have lots of fun things planned already, but this is a good idea. Appreciate the suggestion.
Dave Olson posted:katy409 posted:Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?
Can't add a second motor but looking into adding weights near the motor.
Which begs the musical question: Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo? Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.
Rusty
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Rusty Traque posted:Which begs the musical question: Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo? Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.
Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.
Dave Olson posted:Rusty Traque posted:Which begs the musical question: Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo? Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.
Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.
Thanks, Dave. Just curious.
Rusty
Thank you Dave. Have a question, If I open up my GP7 and add weights - is my warranty now void? Thanks, Art
Dave,
what are the actual constraints for a second motor not fitting in the GP, motor size, flywheel or...?
