SMPH is wrong: Solved... As good as it can.

Did you change the tach tape on the motor ?          j

No.  Same motor, tape and reader.  The only thing I changed was the PS2 5V board with the PS2 3V board.

Is the 4-4-2 a Railking or Premier

Premier 20-3038-1 PS2 5V... Upgraded from a donor RK 30-4104-1 PS2 3V

Did you try the PS2 upgrade file for the 4-4-2 instead of the 2006 file? See if that makes a difference.

Possibly there is a difference between the donor RK 2-8-0's gearing, flywheel size and/or sensor tape and that of the recipient Premier 4-4-2 atlantic and each engine's respective sound/personality file take that characteristic into its programming for speed.

Do you still have the donor 2-8-0's flywheel w/ tape to compare flywheels and tape markings?  If the flywheel sizes are different, you can possibly switch tapes (a while ago someone posted to the forum various barcode tapes to download) to correct.  If all components are the same then

different sound files can affect the speed you might have the wrong sound file in the engine, also the board you put in might have been flashed differently at Mth factory when it was made! also as someone said could have different gearing affecting the speed also!

The scale MPH for the locomotive is in the sound file. Try the PS2 upgrade file (a conversion of the original PS2 5V file to PS2 3V) here and see if it corrects the issue: https://mthtrains.com/20-3038-1

If the model number prefix is a 30-, as you say, the loco is not a Premier.

"Sound file" is a misnomer.  It's more than sounds, it's the operating software.  sd the loco is truly a Premier (20-), it may have different gearing and flywheel size than the donor.

Ron045,

RJR is correct, the RK and Premier engines have VERY different gearing.  I don't have engine data spread sheet in front of me, but IIRC, the RK 2-8-0 has a 28:1 gear ratio and smaller drive wheels than the Premier 4-4-2.  The 4-4-2 probably has either a 16:1 or 18:1 gear ratio.  Between the gear ratio and driver diameter differences a Premier 4-4-2 loaded with a RK 2-8-0 sound file (or most other RK steam sound files) would run at about double the objective speed.

Load the conversion file that LOU1985 linked and you should be good to go.

Well, I downloaded 20-3038-1 PS2 Upgrade.  Same speed issue, but OMG are the sounds so much better.  

I think I'll live with the speed issue just to keep this whistle.  

Maybe I'll play with tac tape if it becomes problematic.

In this video the RK M1 and the 44 Ton on the outside track are doing 22 SMPH.  The Atlantic is doing 11 SMPH.

Thanks for your feedback.

Ron

What electronic board does that engine have?  Is it an upgrade or factory original?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

What electronic board does that engine have?  Is it an upgrade or factory original?

GRJ, this is a Factory RK Board from a 2-8-0 that you assisted me with last weekend.  I just counted the tac tape an there are 24 stripes.  I saw another thread of yours where you post Hikel's math conversion and your PDF of tac tapes.  Thought I would give that a try.  More stripes... slower speed, right?

Ron

Right

There is a limit, when the stripes get too small the sensor has trouble picking them up.  Also, at high speeds, it may have trouble reading them.  I don't know what the limits are, it's an exercise for the student.

Up to 36 stripes... Took it a little too far, but I'm much closer.  When the M1 is at 25, the Atlantic is at 29 to keep pace.  Will try again tomorrow.

I'm just printing this out on regular paper and pasting it on with a glue stick.  Is that good enough or will I want to use some more permanent sticker when I find one I like?

Ron

The required number of stripes is also a function of flywheel diameter.

Hi Ron,

About .050" is the finest stripe width that a PS2 tach reader can parse.  I've never played around with the PS3 tach readers to find the lower limit.  The PS3's are physically a little smaller than the PS2's, so they might go a little thinner.

It's best to use adhesive backed label paper, but if your glue stick glue is sticking well that's fine.  One trick that helps is to trace over the printed stripes with a black ball point pen.  The pen ink is much denser than ink jet ink or laser toner.  The tach reader tends to get a better read.

I use half-page gummed shipping labels.  Dave's number is about what I expected for the resolution, I've never pushed the envelope to see how small I could go.

RJR posted:

The required number of stripes is also a function of flywheel diameter.

 Actually, it's not.  It's universally 24 for almost all stock MTH stuff.  I'd say all, but someone would show me one that had a different stripe count.  The width of each stripe obviously depends on the flywheel diameter, but not the number of stripes.

What if you put around 8 fat stripes on a smaller flywheel when the engine is geared lower (slower engine)? Should the black stripes be fatter or the white?

or.... Should they be even in width?

I always make them even in width, I seriously doubt it makes any difference.  If I were leaning in one direction, I'd make the white stripes larger as dropouts in the black might trigger and extra "stripe".

Ron,

I'd change the title to "Proto 2.0 custom install scale speed issue" or something.

This gave me the impression there's something wrong with a stock MTH engine.

I've been under the impression (perhaps I've read it wrong) that on PS2 and PS3 boards the scale MPH calibration is in the sound file, not the board software. So changing the sound file on the board should have adjusted the MPH calibration for the board the locomotive is currently in. I'm surprised the sound file did not adjust the MPH on the locomotive.

Depends on whether the sound file is for that particular loco

Lou1985 posted:

I've been under the impression (perhaps I've read it wrong) that on PS2 and PS3 boards the scale MPH calibration is in the sound file, not the board software. So changing the sound file on the board should have adjusted the MPH calibration for the board the locomotive is currently in. I'm surprised the sound file did not adjust the MPH on the locomotive.

Lou

i think the speed control aspect is still dependent on the mechanics of the loco. I think the number of stripes that pass the reader must correlate to flywheel diameter, gear ratios and driver wheel diameter. Specific file might need to see y stripes per second , for x smph, but all that ratio is dependent on the specific loco hardware. 

Marty R posted:

Lou1985 posted:

I've been under the impression (perhaps I've read it wrong) that on PS2 and PS3 boards the scale MPH calibration is in the sound file, not the board software. So changing the sound file on the board should have adjusted the MPH calibration for the board the locomotive is currently in. I'm surprised the sound file did not adjust the MPH on the locomotive.

Lou

i think the speed control aspect is still dependent on the mechanics of the loco. I think the number of stripes that pass the reader must correlate to flywheel diameter, gear ratios and driver wheel diameter. Specific file might need to see y stripes per second , for x smph, but all that ratio is dependent on the specific loco hardware. 

Correct. The board itself shouldn't care. The sound file should adjust for the mechanical difference. So if the OP took the board out of a Rail King 2-8-0, put it in his Premier 4-4-2, and downloaded the correct sound file for the 4-4-2, the locomotive should be running at the correct scale MPH without adjusting stripes on the flywheel. 

I settled on .054.  I'm 1 SMPH off.  I can live it that.

Thanks again everyone for your inputs.

Ron

It's not uncommon for identical units to have a slight variance in speeds.  Besides, the speed variation you're seeing there is likely to be from being on the inside curve.   A one SMPH variation is well within what I consider to be "good".