So...what did I do on my layout today?

Roo,

Very nice trackwork.

Do I recall correctly your space is 26ftx26ft? I'm thinking my 50ft longx25ft wide space isn't going to look right meaning that it seems a bit like a toy train. The train goes from 1 side down 1 end,then down the opposing side then the other end,&is back to the future yard area where it will start. It just doesn't seem like the area available to me,complete with furnace,water softner & other appliances which take up about 4ft along 1 50ft side,just doesn't seem large enough to make the trains look like they belong there,a bit too cramped. What am I missing here? Your layout looks fantastic & very much like it belongs. Now in that area,HO trains would largely disappear.

What am I not taking into consideration?

Thank you,

Al Hummel

Keep the pickies comin"  Roo

Luv ya work. 

Al.

You have the perfect space for a great layout!

That extra 25 feet in length is something I wish I had then I could turn the layout into some kind of Belt line coming off a main line and use some passenger cars as well.

To illustrate my point the late great John Armstrong drew up a plan and great story to go with it, in the January 1955 edition of Model Railroader that to me would be perfect for your space.

He drew this plan up to suit a basement with lots of obstacles and the owner wanted the centre part to be free of the railroad it's a wonderful plan.

I would copy the plan here but I'm not sure if it is breaking the OGR forum rules.

You are correct my room is 8 metres square which is near enough to 26X26 feet.

because of this and don't get me wrong I am grateful for the space I can only really have an industrial district because of the sharp curves and lack of length.

When I designed my Railroad I wanted two main things.

No duckunders (I have a back problem) and minimum maintenance. Meaning no hidden trackwork, gradients or second tiers.

There are lots of other "rules" for building a successful layout like keep everything in arms reach use only good quality electrical items including the wire, rolling stock with good couplers, wheels, trackwork etc.

Another tip to keep away from the "Toy Train" look (I don't like using that expression here) is to keep the trains short and where possible don't use modern cars keep your cars to 40 footers and the occasional 50 footer but no longer than that although I admit there seems to be a few 52' 6" gondolas creeping into the scene lately not to mention those giant hot Metal cars from MTH!

Keep in mind once a suitable backdrop and building flats are in place along with the track painted and ballasted, trains start to shrink into the environment the trick is to blend everything together keep the track particular the curves hidden behind buildings or scenery but still accessible for cleaning.

(see photo)

I can't advise you about suitable passenger cars as in 30 years of O I have never owned one!

To me though the first two are most important when starting off.

If I can't print that track plan here I could send you a copy from West Australia I might even include a postcard from Perth! But someone over there should have a copy if you haven't.

Hope all this helps I'm not good at advising people on layouts because I think a layout is a personal thing which only the owner can visualise in the end, and if he is happy with it then it must be right.

Thanks Al.

Thanks Max.

Roo.   

Al.

Here is another photo I just snapped of a train coming around a corner of the room see how it blends in with the backdrop and the foreground scenery you don't realise there is a 36' radius curve there.

Of course the small freight cars and locomotive helps to !

Weathering your cars also helps as well compare the coal hoppers to the Jack Frost covered hopper.

Time for our evening meal.

Bye now.

Roo.

Roo,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the great photos & advise.

A couple things that sort of ,"Throw a wrench," in my O scale layout plans,are:

1 I'm modern era,meaning I use freight cars & diesels from the late 70s to present which seem to work fine on 48 or even 45 inch radii. these freight cars are mostly 50'6" in length in boxcars. I live in the Midwest were grain harvesting is a big year 'round commodity & where unit trains consisting of 65-105 car trains of nothing but grain hoppers,are common,which I model. My trains in O would,I hope,consist of 8-12 grain cars. I'm not sure how that many hoppers in O would negotiate 48-50" mainline radii.

2. As just mentioned,i'll be using 50" outside radii&48"inside radius mainlines. I have shelving all around the basement,well 3/4 of it,& the shelves have 4 tiers. The tier I plan to use will be about 36"-37" high. My late Dad built a couple of these shelves in the 60s& I built many more in the past 2 years. (I'll send photos in the days ahead to better show what in time I'll be utilizing.) So track will be taking up a lot of area,but that's ok,it shouldn't be that bad. For now,due to cost I'll plan for double track but only use 1 mainline except through the yard area to start.

My railroad is to be heavy on industrial switching while mainline trains will be largely local freights going to industrial sites to perform switching chores&returning to the yard with their pickups to be sent out to perhaps a smaller yard or other industry that uses the loads or empties. A through train of containers on intermodal flats would be nice in the future,but my eyes are set on building my unit grain trains which are or soon will be finished. I have a 13 car unit train of mostly CSX 4750 cubic ft grain hoppers as of now with a 12 car train of Atlas Master Series 5161 cvd hoppers in CSX due for the 3rd quarter of 2016. I have some Cargill & KYLE cvd 5161s in boxes also. (WOW! Do I have to sell a lot in HO to pay for those,but time is on my side there.).

My layout will also use the Atlas 25,500 gallon tankers for various industries,in particular,industry that brings in chemicals to manufacture insulation for homes&other uses by tanker&sends out reclaimed chemicals from the manufacturing process. The finished commodity is shipped out by semi on flatbed trailers. (This industry located at a plant in my hometown of Bremen,Indiana,with other plants located across the US,must make a lot of neighboring town deliveries instead of long hauls;it's called Johns Manville). Also,I plan to have a plant that will be largely a 2 track transloading between rail & semi tankers, for grades of corn syrups. These are short Atlas tankers 5 of which I have ready for the rails.

I also have 8 Coil stell cars,also from Atlas,that I think I'll use as loads from steel mills,not modeled on my layout,but delivered to industry sites that use large amounts of rolled steel.

Lastly,well so far,I'm going to have a site where 62ft bulkhead flat cars can deliver packaged lumber to. I saw a VERY large industry just recently that inspired me.

My industries,such as the lumber facility as well as others,would fit nicely in a smaller area if I could find backdrop pics. If I took a picture of the lumber facility I mentioned,posssibly it could be blown up to fit my layout? 

My biggest problem is track switches. Number 6 turnouts are the standard offering among the 3 greatest manufacturers in the US that I know of. I was always under the impression #4 turnouts are the norm on most industrial sidings except where an industry comes off the mainline,then a #5 might be used-am I wrong? #5s would be okay,but on my shelves,I have 2'x4'ft upright supports blocking access,so I have to work around them. This just takes planning & makes double tracking on the mainlines unrealistic,but nevertheless not impossible. #6 turnouts on the mains are ok,but a #5 works just as well. I'd like to build my own but am a total dope when it comes to wiring, knowing nothing in that area. I am in an O Scale desert here with no shows close by & no friends to help.

Your layout is a MASTER PIECE, my friend!! If it hasn't been shown in O scale magazines it SHOULD BE! That's fact. Your buildings,trackwork,details,are just amazing!

I believe I have the republished articles by John Armstrong in a magazine I bought in the hobby shop from years back,that you mentioned,but VERY MUCH appreciate your kindness in offering to send them,as well as the post card,both offerings are VERY kind for which I thank you.

I compliment you on your fantastic contributions to this site & to us modelers here, myself at the top of the list, & your great kindness. I get so caught up in the rush of the total scope of planning the total layout from scratch,that I forget to start in 1 area at a time & move ahead slowly,cutting the overwhelming frustration. When I see,for example,a pair of sidings you are planning,it's so relaxing to just set & look! That is inspiring & sets my old mind in motion with new ideas. 

 Roo,you & the other fine modelers from Australia have taught this modeler & I think I speak for the others on this site,a lot in a short time. Lessons in modeling & most importantly in helpfulness,&kindness,which are always most important as the many fine modelers & friends here will agree. Glad to have you gentlemen aboard!

Thanks again,will have pictures soon,my wife has most of the once clear basement full now,as we sold her house & moved everything from there into what is supposed to be,and I quote,"MY" basement. Funny how women forget.

Al Hummel

Hi Al,

 

I think you're worrying too much! Roo is 100% right imho.

 

I model modern era as well. I have 36" radius curves   in 2 hidden areas on my layout and all except Atlas 89' flats and Lionel multis will negotiate fine. My locos are mostly 4-axle and all are fine: Atlas, Weaver, P&D, and a couple of brass.

 

I do have a MTH Dash-8 and a Dash-9 (2-rail versions) which will handle the 36" curves as well. The only thing they won't negotiate is a hand-laid code 148 curved diamond with 60" radius on both tracks. However that's not on the main line so no worries in operation.

 

My layout is sectional and is now in its 5th basement. I use narrow shelves tailored to the latest space (I move a lot ) to connect sectional towns. I have an "L" shaped 30' x 30' space at the moment with a point-to-point setup.

 

Track is code 148 main and (mostly) 125 branch/industries. I use #5 and higher switches, Atlas, Peco, Marcway, handlaid, no issues there. I have 44" and 48" radius curves on main and branch lines with no issues. I hide the outside of the visible 44" radius curve with a berm/highway overpass. The other curves are viewed from inside to minimize visual impact. Layout height is 53" which helps minimize it as well.

 

I run 20-25 car trains on the main and 10-15 on the branches, a good mix of modern Atlas, MTH, Lionel (2-railed), Weaver with no issues.

 

I have only 3 rules about all cars:

 

1. All metal wheels, NO PLASTIC ever!!

 

2. Kadee couplers throughout - Atlas centering springs (even the newest ones) are too stiff and will derail or pull adjacent cars off the track on the tighter curves.          

 

3. NMRA RP weight MINIMUM - 50% heavier if there's room.

 

That is all. 

 

HTH

 

Pete

 

 

Originally Posted by Alan Hummel:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the great photos & advise.

A couple things that sort of ,"Throw a wrench," in my O scale layout plans,are:

1 I'm modern era,meaning I use freight cars & diesels from the late 70s to present which seem to work fine on 48 or even 45 inch radii. these freight cars are mostly 50'6" in length in boxcars. I live in the Midwest were grain harvesting is a big year 'round commodity & where unit trains consisting of 65-105 car trains of nothing but grain hoppers,are common,which I model. My trains in O would,I hope,consist of 8-12 grain cars. I'm not sure how that many hoppers in O would negotiate 48-50" mainline radii.

2. As just mentioned,i'll be using 50" outside radii&48"inside radius mainlines. I have shelving all around the basement,well 3/4 of it,& the shelves have 4 tiers. The tier I plan to use will be about 36"-37" high. My late Dad built a couple of these shelves in the 60s& I built many more in the past 2 years. (I'll send photos in the days ahead

Thank you Pete,this also helps a great deal.

The large radii curves are out there in case I live long enough to get enough money to buy some of the 89' autoracks mainly. I also saw a diesel that took a minimum radius of 42" with fixed pilots. I was told many months ago 40" did fine & was planning on 40" or more.

Like I told Roo,I have trouble with the visual effect. But,here again,emphasis will be switching,not running lots of through freights or passenger trains.

Thanks again,

Al Hummel

Thanks Al for your kind remarks and Pete for the good advice about cars which I do the same on all my cars I hate tossing out endless wheels and couplings but on a switching layout you need Kadees and good metal wheels also I agree about the weight.

Today in our operating session in six hours we moved 260 cars which is typical for a all day session we spread the work load around between four of us and really enjoy Fridays it's great fun.

That first photo is of the staging yard there are drawers underneath holding cars and the rest we keep all over the place even outside the room on a table!

Just remember mate I am just an average modeller like most of us nothing special about me I just read a lot of books old mags and look at the real thing although all the industrial sidings over here are virtually gone forever.

I'm feeling it hard with the Aussie dollar dropping and the shipping costs going through the roof but I still manage to buy a few things every month from the USA.

I picked up a nice set of Lionel Hot Metal cars from ebay the other day it's my second set I wanted six cars now I have five to convert to two Rail I have converted one so far beautiful cars.

Stick with it Al, keep the O scale flag flying mate.

Take care.

Roo.

Could not take many photos at today's session to busy but snapped a couple.

Roo,

Another great inspiration for this doubting old man. You modelers have really got a great layout,looks like tremendous enjoyment.

Thanks again for the photos.

AL Hummel

There is a lot of decay and abandoned tracks on the BRHRR.

Here are a couple more photos.

A lot of the derelict sidings were actually being used at one stage and just like the real thing as parts of the layout were changed these were just left there and blended into the new scenery and the tracks painted a rusty color.

A couple of the sidings are still wired and one is connected with track but never used

Today I have some visitors coming to look at the layout so I had better get out into the room and make it tidy and make sure the track is nice and clean.

The photos I am posting here are new photos some were just snapped today I don't like posting same photos everywhere not that it matters I'm only on this one forum anyway.

Take Care.

Roo.