So, what is the verdict on Protosounds 1?

 A 9 V battery is Ok for a quickie test, but I wouldn't leave it in the engine.

When you power it up, listen for the 3 clanks of death. It indicates that the electronics need to be reset. MTH did (does?) sell a kit to do it.

Don't pay too much. Know the original price and you should be somewhere between 33-50% Tops! For me to pay 50% it would have to be NIB with original seals on the shipping carton (and an engine I really wanted).

Gilly

What would you recommend to use in the engine then, if not a 9v? One of those BCR's? How do they work?

Pardon my ignorance. The only MTH engine I have is locosounds. All my rest are Lionel, Marx, or American Flyer, none of which I have to worry about batteries.

Long term, I absolutely would recommend the BCR.  For testing prior to purchase (to avoid buying a dud), the 9V battery is fine. The MTH batteries are rechargeable. You can get away with putting a charge on an alkaline battery, but I wouldn't do it on a regular basis.

If you're going to an auction and can't test it, bid accordingly. Regardless of how pretty it is, I would assume it doesn't run and I'll be paying $$ to fix it.

Gilly 

Like has been recommended, get the BCR.  PS1 is antique and a pain in the . . . but it does work if you take care of it.  It is a good idea to upgrade/replace it, though.

The BCR contains a capacitor. You put ~10-12 VAC on the locomotive for about 30 seconds when you first power up and then you're good to go. They aren't cheap, but I put them in every PS-1 engine I bought and am glad I did. Once installed you never have to fool with batteries again.

Gilly

You know that PS-1 is strictly conventional operation, right?

No command operation at all.

Rod

Okay, thanks for the information guys!

PS-1 is a more sophisticated version of QSIindustries electronic reverse and sound systems designed for MTH locomotives. It was called "Proto-Sounds." After PS-2 command systems came out, the term "PS-1" was used.

QSI designed all its products for Lionel Electrical Operating Standards  (L.E.O.S.). Most layouts had postwar Lionel transformers. A ZW was the ultimate power source. It's perfect for PS-1 systems.

Electronic transformers were in their infancy and command control was years away. Some PS-1 systems can work with newer transformers and some can't.

Like Gilly, I installed BCR's in all my PS-1 locomotives. They run like Hamilton watches. Apply 10 volts (no more) for 60 seconds and a locomotive is ready to run, no matter how long it has been stored.

The Website for BCR's is www.jandwelectronics.com Wayne Renga repairs and upgrades PS-1 and PS-2 systems.

The QSI Website is www.the-scaled-tin-rail.com

When buying any locomotive with PS-1, make certain it runs. If not, it could have a scrambled chip or damaged/fried circuit board(s). As Gilly posted, consider additional cost of any repairs or upgrades when bidding.

Generally, PS-1 locomotives command low prices but in an auction anything can happen. Bids depend on who is interested and cash on hand.

Mike, if the loco is advertised as "Like New" and looks the part, I would risk buying it, the cost of repairing a massive defective board set is less than if it was a Protosounds 2.0, either three or five volt version. I have had a semi scale MTH Protosounds S-2 turbine since new at our club layout, as well as two Protosounds Amtrak Genesis locos, all have the original boards, and have been through dead batteries, and a lot of run time, with no problems. That being said, don't bid crazy money on the loco, but don't let it go for cheap, either. The camelback is a neat loco, and with the back up light added to the tender, is a good looker. If you do buy it quite reasonably, it might be fiscally worthwhile to upgrade it if problems develop down the road, as the tender is quite roomy for the board set, speaker, etc. Let us know how you make out. If you buy it and are disappointed LMK and maybe we can work something out. 

I have 5 PS1 locomotives, all with MTH's battery in them, and I run them all just fine with my Lionel CW-80s.  I did have one locomotive go into deselect due to a old weak battery, but a new chip fixed it up just fine.  When I want a new locomotive, the 1st thing I do is try to find a PS1 version.  I have a reading camelback, and it's a nice one.  But I think it has a bad sound board.  When I have the time I'll figure out for sure, but it still runs nice.

I say go ahead and listen to the nay sayers, because it'll mean the demand will go down, and then the price will go down, and I can pick more of them up on the cheap to run with my CW-80s!

I love PS-1 locomotives. They are relatively inexpensive for the great detail and robust motor and gearbox. Installing TMCC with parts from Electric railroad makes for a mighty fine running and looking loco.

The fact that so many are afraid of them is what makes them affordable.

Also, if you pay attention to the battery or install a BCR, they can be quite reliable.

I too am a proto one fan-have 5 of them-premier-place a bcr battery in them-about 30 dollars but worth it-I got a premier Burlington f3 aba set in mint cond.-took it to my mth

service center in Daytona and had a bcr battery installed-we placed it on a test track and ran thru the sounds while in idle.robust-everyone in the store came over and praised the beauty of these diesels and the sounds.

 im on a fixed income so proto one is great for me-I picked up a premier c&o alleheny

in mint cond. for 325.00.placed a bcr battery in it.

my lhs uses a z4000 to test the sounds.a used train at a auction though-I wonder-wish you luck-joe

The other great thing about these engine is they are built much better then current production in my opinion.  Thicker metal parts, copper wire, better motors as mentioned.

PS-1 boards are pretty robust especially the 1997 and up.

Plus they can be upgraded.  G

I have 9 PS-1 engines dating back to 1995. A few years ago I replaced the batteries in all of them with BCR's. They all still run just fine. I run them with a Z4000 or the latest MRC dual power.

As others have said, if you get one, replace the battery with a BCR. 

I have 2, one bought new in box 10 year old.

I have replaced one battery,the other is still holding.

I am careful to charge them for a long time prior to running them.

I find the sounds are Awesome in both of them. Clear, crisp and a full environment  of appropriate sound.

I would upgrade them to PS-2 but I will not give up those sounds !

I have the MTH CNJ Camelback that I upgraded to TMCC, it's a nice little locomotive. 

That's probably the best solution for PS-1 engines.  Gives you conventional and reliable command / control.

George

And you want to keep the MTH smoke unit, they have the corner on smoke volume!  A PS/2 conversion would have been nice, but at the time I couldn't get the PS/2 kits, seems they have broken the logjam a bit now on those.

My friend has two PS-1 locos that he had never run, a Premier C&O 4-8-4, and a RailKing Burlington Zephyr set.  Since we converted his layout to run conventional equipment (it had been just TMCC/DCS) I went I bought some BCRs for the PS-1 equipment(I figured that the original batteries were probably no good after all these years).  The two run just great, and my friend is happy with them.

Stuart

The FM sound, which gets got used in a LOT of non FM locos was quite accurate for the time.  Not too crazy about the rest of their sound sets.  The mechanics are OK for the time period, but the BCR is a must.  Only place a BCR did not work was the big UP 8500GTEL Turbine...and I really don't know why.

Depending on the engine, I definitely agree!

Early last year I bought the WVP&P Shay from a member at York.  I had always admired this engine.  The Lumber Yard Sounds are pretty good as far as I'm concerned. 

As much as making it command controlled would be a bonus, I would not want to do so since the sounds would no longer have this feature. 

-Dave

PS1 does not require a battery to run. Mine run just fine without one (i've got about 7 or 8 batteries in a drawer), though the sounds are lost when changing direction - like Williams.

PS1 seems to have gone through many permutations; all I know is that every one that I've ever removed a battery from runs fine. This eliminates the battery/chip issue.

Many O-gaugers complain about the "complicated" command systems, yet TMCC has

been simple-stupid for me, and far less fraught with angst than dealing with

PS1/QSI "simple" conventional systems and their traps.

I do care less for Legacy and DCS, however. 

Thanks everyone! I run conventionally, so that does not bother me. Do they come with batteries? How long do they have to be charged before running on average?

Unless someone pulled it out, yes, it'll have a battery in it.  But due to not knowing the age of the battery, the #1 thing to do is to replace the battery before putting it on the track.  I have read else where that they do run without a battery like the above poster says, but do so at your own risk.  If you try to do any of the Proto-Sounds programing, you have to have the battery or else you will "scramble" the chip.  As for charging, with a new MTH battery, no time is needed, it's good to go.  If it's a regular runner, no need to worry about charging it.  If it sits for a while, follow the instructions in the manual for testing and charging the battery.  For a BCR, turn the track power on and wait 30-60 sec depending on the BCR used, and then you are good to go for that session.  But again, however you run it, do not do any of the programing or use direction lockout without a good battery or fully charged BCR.

As far as Protosounds sound sets, the F-3 Reading loco has the best horn of any MTH loco, when you activate the station sounds, and the loco toots the horn prior to pulling out, it is really neat. By comparison, PS2 has just a "Blat" sound, but the Protosounds has a "Pshonk" which sounds great to my ears. 

While there were some early QSI that did not have batteries, or had an on off switch for the battery, the majority of PS-1 which is the MTH version must have a battery to change directions. 

The 8.4V batteries normally last about 5 years.  Any of the white MTH batteries are long past expiration.  The newer ones are Green.  G

Ditto, ditto, ditto.  I love 'em all!

Now, that said, I have had converted a set of B&O F3's to PS2.  Reason?  The early versions had funky horn and bell modes, some of which would not work in the idle mode.  George (GGG) did the conversion and it turned out GREAT!  First class!

But all of the other PS1's I have....about a dozen...are keepers.  I run conventionally...for now.  They have all the sounds I want.  PLUS, some of them were absolute bargain-priced as folks began to shun them, thank you!

KD

PS1 = the worst design ever for an electric train.

Why?  What was better in 1994?  G

Yes...I am with GGG here....what was better in 1994 and had all the features that PS had???

Alan

Not just 1994, even today I think PS1 locomotives are an excellent value for what you get for a conventional locomotive.  They sure do all run and sound better than the brand new RTR Lionel locomotives I've gotten.  If you are only saying that because of the battery issue, IMHO, that's just lazy to either not track it's life or replace it with a BCR.

Thanks again for all the help. So, I got to the auction, looked at the box, and although a google search with the engine's number, brought up an MTH catalog showing it was PS1, the box says PS2. Did they switch it between catalog release and manufacture? It's the MTH LNE Camelback. Is there any issues I have to watch for PS2?

You stated that you run conventionally, what Power source are you using?

I have not had any trouble running PS1 with a CW-80, but some of my PS2 do not like the CW-80 and will blow thier horns randomly constantly. With all of my PS2 the remote couplers will NOT function with the CW-80.

 I HAVE had the scrambled chip issue with a PS1 locomotive, but the main reason that I don't buy PS1 much any more, unless the price is rediculous cheap is that I have Legacy, TMCC and DCS and too many non-command locomotives already as it is, I just don't buy too many conventional only locomotives any more.

 Unless you can do the work yourself, upgrading a PS1 to PS2 is not cost effective, in most cases.

Doug

I do use CW-80's for under the Christmas Tree and such, but my layout is postwar ZW's protected by fast blow fuses

CW-80 is not on the approved list for any of the PS1 or PS2 equipped locomotives, that I know of. To the best of my knowledge, using a cw-80 wont harm them, it is mainly the horn and coupler issues that is the trouble with using a CW-80. It is just a matter of trying them together and seeing what happens, some PS1/2 locomotives will play nicely with a CW-80 some wont, I have yet to find any rhyme or reason as to why some do, and some don't.

Doug

On the other hand, especially since you say you run conventionally, downgrading certainly is.  Taking out the PS 1 board and replacing it with a $35 Williams reversing board is a simple matter of 2 wire nuts, giving you dependable conventional operation with no batteries and none of the PS 1 headaches.

My personal experience is that PS 1 is an outdated and short-lived interim technology that just isn't worth the hassle.  I know YMMV.  But if you really like the engine but you aren't sure about PS 1, don't let that be the determining factor.   It is a simple matter to convert it back to conventional operation.

Converting it to conventional would seem to be a non-starter, you lose all the sounds!

Like I said, although it was cataloged as PS1 back in 06, it turns out they made it as PS2, so after reading the owners manual, it is charging it's 2.4v battery on the layout right now. It ran well for a minute or two after charging for 10, so I think the battery will be okay. Not bad for an engine which I think has never been ran in it's 6 or 7 years of life.

Last PS-1 were in 2000.  There are remake PS-2 engines.  2.4V batteries last about 7 years and the 3V boards are not effected by battery issues as the 5V and PS-1 could be.  Enjoy.  G