Solution/lionel 1946 #671steam engine

I remember your post.  Did you replace the wiring?  I have a 671-RR, which is a 681 without magnetraction, so the guts are a little different.  I did a complete rewire of mine because the wire coating was starting to fray.  I also ended up replacing the e-unit.

Not sure which gear you're referring to, but by pressing it are you causing the brushes to make contact?  Could be too much play in the shaft and/or weak brush springs.

Have you used a continuity tester on all of the connections?  Maybe there's a solder joint that looks good but isn't, and it makes contact when you press. 

If I remember correctly there is a thrust bearing/washer at the motor shat where it engages the gear box. If that bearing/washers is incorrect it will lead to the issue you are describing. Compare what you have with the correct Greenberg parts diagram.

What RJT said.
If you Google search "lionel 671 exploded view", you will find the exploded view showing where the thrust washers go.  If memory serves, there are at least 2 and they could be different thicknesses.  You may have to reposition things more than once. 

If that doesn't work out, try taking a video of what you are seeing and post it here.  I too am confused about "I put my finger on the gear and push forward, the motor starts".  I am not sure where you are talking about.  These old machines are so simple, it's not likely this is unfixable; possible but not likely.

Tony V

If you need an exploded view let me know I have several Greenberg books, the K-Line book and Olsen’s library I can send you what you need. My email is in my profile or message me here.

@texgeekboy posted:

I remember your post.  Did you replace the wiring?  I have a 671-RR, which is a 681 without magnetraction, so the guts are a little different.  I did a complete rewire of mine because the wire coating was starting to fray.  I also ended up replacing the e-unit.

Thanks for yout feedback. I did replace two of the outer wires but the ones that appear to go underneath the e-unit I have not done those. Those wires do have the coating that is alittle frayed. I am sort of afraid to tackle the e-unit, but it sound like I may have to. Thanks for the food for thought.Dan

@Mallard4468 posted:

Not sure which gear you're referring to, but by pressing it are you causing the brushes to make contact?  Could be too much play in the shaft and/or weak brush springs.

Have you used a continuity tester on all of the connections?  Maybe there's a solder joint that looks good but isn't, and it makes contact when you press.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Not sure which gear you're referring to, but by pressing it are you causing the brushes to make contact?  Could be too much play in the shaft and/or weak brush springs.

Have you used a continuity tester on all of the connections?  Maybe there's a solder joint that looks good but isn't, and it makes contact when you press.

Mallard. Thanks. The gear is the one in the front of the motor. It does have alittle play in it when I push on it. I did put in new springs. I will check again . Never did continuity yet. I will give that a try. Dan

@dan venet posted:

Be sure to check for the washers that @RJT and @Tony V mentioned - they're easy to forget or install incorrectly.

@dan venet,

I tried to rebuild the e-unit.  Wiring it up is easy, but I had a lot of problems trying to get the drum back in.  There's youtube videos on doing it with or without a special tool. The tool is expensive IMHO, and I tried to do it without it.  It didn't go well, for me at least.  You can buy an e-unit from many places, but Jeff at ttender_dot_com has been my go to.  Make sure you say exactly what unit you need it for.

@RJT posted:

If I remember correctly there is a thrust bearing/washer at the motor shat where it engages the gear box. If that bearing/washers is incorrect it will lead to the issue you are describing. Compare what you have with the correct Greenberg parts diagram.

Rick: This is my first go with the disassembly etc of the steam engine. Is the thrust bearing washer plastic or a typical light metal washer. I do not remember seeing those during the process of taking it apart. I will take a closer look at the Greenberg diagram. Tony V who responded also mentioned that I take a video of the problem I am having and put it on the forum to help with my explanation of what is happening . Thanks , Dan

@Mallard4468 posted:

Be sure to check for the washers that @RJT and @Tony V mentioned - they're easy to forget or install incorrectly.

Mallard: It sounds like what you , Rick & Tony are referring to could be my problem. This may be a stupid question but what exactly does  this washer look like. Is it the hard plastic, metal? Does this go on the shaft behind the gear or inside the engine. My 1st go around so if I sound alittle lost....most likely I am. I do not remember seeing any washers doing my disassembly. Thanks, Dan

Dan if I remember correctly it could be a washer or a bearing depending how the installation and what Lionel was doing that day as I have seen both. It would be a metal object and it goes at over the motor shaft where it mesh’s with the gear box. Prevents the motor from engaging to far into the gear which will cause binding as you describe. I will look it up later this morning and get back to you. Do you know what year your 671 is?

Dan,

There is a good exploded view on the web, google search "lionel 671 exploded view" (without quotes).  There is a really clear exploded view that is the first result.  I'd post here but I am concerned about TOS.

You can also look here. https://ogrforum.com/topic/111...98#11285375690223698 .

Tony V

@Tony_V posted:

Dan,

There is a good exploded view on the web, google search "lionel 671 exploded view" (without quotes).  There is a really clear exploded view that is the first result.  I'd post here but I am concerned about TOS.

You can also look here. https://ogrforum.com/topic/111...98#11285375690223698 .

Tony V

This view Tony has linked shows the bearing and thrust washers and are clearly marked and identified with a part number.

@RJT posted:

Dan if I remember correctly it could be a washer or a bearing depending how the installation and what Lionel was doing that day as I have seen both. It would be a metal object and it goes at over the motor shaft where it mesh’s with the gear box. Prevents the motor from engaging to far into the gear which will cause binding as you describe. I will look it up later this morning and get back to you. Do you know what year your 671 is?

Rick. The year of my #671 is 1946 .I hope to take a closer look later today regarding the washer and gear box. Thanks Dan

It sounds to me like a bad ground circuit. Especially check where the field coil wire is riveted to the motor stud. I say this because you said it runs when you press down on the motor then it runs. Or possibly a bad armature winding that the solder has come loose on the commutator plate. I think all this washer talk is mis-informed. If you have a 1946 model it has a horizontal drive shaft with no washers. (That is if you didn't take the motor apart.)

@Chuck Sartor posted:

It sounds to me like a bad ground circuit. Especially check where the field coil wire is riveted to the motor stud. I say this because you said it runs when you press down on the motor then it runs. Or possibly a bad armature winding that the solder has come loose on the commutator plate. I think all this washer talk is mis-informed. If you have a 1946 model it has a horizontal drive shaft with no washers. (That is if you didn't take the motor apart.)

Thanks Chuck. Is your suggestion something that is clearly fixable if I can locate the problem? And no, I did not take the engine apart. I will go back and take a closer look. Thanks. Dan

I tend to agree with @Chuck Sartor.  I have experienced that problem with a pinched wire shorting out on the engine shell.  There are multiple places where a wire could be shorting out or not connected.  The E-Unit needs to be completely rewired with a new drum and contact "fingers".  Those are available from parts dealers that already have the wires attached.  The 671 also has a smoke unit and light bulb, those could be causing some of the shorting.  Lastly, the pickup rollers, may also have frayed writes.  An engine this old should have all its wired replaced.  The pick-up rollers use a special flexible wire, again parts dealers can help.

Do the repair in steps, you can bench test the motor along the way.  For example, clamp the motor to a block of wood and test it with wires with alligator clips. You can even run it on the track without the e-unit and body.   

  I am going to email you a document with a step by step guide. Its for a different engine, but the e-unit and other wiring concepts are relatively close. 

At the end, when you get the engine running, its a huge sense of accomplishment and will provide you skills to do other engines. 

Best, Dave