Spacing for shelving units between rolling stock

I used beer cans to space mine.

Hi Joe, not a bad idea, I don't drink but I do have some energy drink cans in the fridge, other cans would probably work well too.   Thanks so much, appreciate the answer.

I like to grab a steamer by its running board so a couple could be 7 inches

I cut blocks of wood, 4.5" if I recall. I have added rows with tighter spacing that works for smaller O Gauge trains such as Marx and Lionel Jr.

Joe, those shelves look great. I hope you emptied those cans after all that work.

May I submit there are three variables? The height of the model, the thickness of your fingers and your strength.  The 'can idea' seems like a logical starting place.  With the consent of your wife, place various size paired cans from her storage area near each end of the model.  Place a board on top of the cans and try to lift the model.  Adjust the height until you find the best for you.  John in Lansing, ILL

@BlueComet400 posted:

Joe, those shelves look great. I hope you emptied those cans after all that work.

Absolutely.......even emptied a couple during the process.

I just finished some of my shelving and I used 5.5 inches. I have some taller freight cars and this seemed a good compromise with my fingers and those cars.

You'll want a little more room than just being able to get your fingers in there, especially with large or heavy pieces that may take some fiddling to get on the rails.  You dont want to be in a spot where its so snug that you have to "roll" the pieces onto and off of the shelves, thats how whoopsies happen.  

Everyone has the right idea, use something standardized to space the shelves. I think I used MTH boxcar boxes.

Just want add a bit.  Most beer or soda cans are around 5 inches high give or take a hair. That dimension is adequate for most "O" gauge rolling stock and engines.  The exceptions are the crane cars and the electric power units. (i.e. GG1's, EP5's and others with pantographs.) If you leave the pantographs down there is no problem but if you want to raise them you will need about an extra 3/4" to 1" clearance.  Another thing is the track you are planning on using.  Most track is around 3/4" or less. If you are going to go with the aluminum shelving, they have the rails built in and the beer can is a good idea.  If you need that extra space a piece of 1 x pine on top of the can will give an additional 3/4".  If you decide not to use any track you can go under 5 inches.  Some also put groves in their shelves to hold the trains in line and so they don't fall off.  A lot of suggestions out there from "we" who speak from experience. Guess what ever works for you and your collection. Please post pictures when you get you display on the wall.

FuzzyD     

Wow, many different ways to figure out the spacings, thank you guys, I really appreciate it and I think everyone has a varied but good idea.  Based on your suggestions, I'm going to set my shelves which will hold my largest and heaviest locomotives at 6" in between the top of the track and bottom of the next shelf, maybe even an inch higher.  They will also be placed at an easy height where I can easily pick them up and take them off, I'm going to try and keep them around the 48" to 5' level.  The smaller and liter locomotives will go above them.  Rolling stock will be below and up above the locomotives in most cases.
Thanks again for your terrific answers, they are all very much appreciated.

@NJCJOE posted:

I used beer cans to space mine.

This is brilliant.  P.S. beer cans are a great measuring tool when you go crabbing in the Chesapeake. :-)

@FuzzyD posted:

Just want add a bit.  Most beer or soda cans are around 5 inches high give or take a hair. That dimension is adequate for most "O" gauge rolling stock and engines.  The exceptions are the crane cars and the electric power units. (i.e. GG1's, EP5's and others with pantographs.) If you leave the pantographs down there is no problem but if you want to raise them you will need about an extra 3/4" to 1" clearance.  Another thing is the track you are planning on using.  Most track is around 3/4" or less. If you are going to go with the aluminum shelving, they have the rails built in and the beer can is a good idea.  If you need that extra space a piece of 1 x pine on top of the can will give an additional 3/4".  If you decide not to use any track you can go under 5 inches.  Some also put groves in their shelves to hold the trains in line and so they don't fall off.  A lot of suggestions out there from "we" who speak from experience. Guess what ever works for you and your collection. Please post pictures when you get you display on the wall.

FuzzyD     

You forgot about autoracks, double stacks, and hy-cubes

I made myself some spacing blocks and spaced them at 5.5" apart.

That’s a lot of Reading boxcars!

@rplst8 posted:

That’s a lot of Reading boxcars!

Those are all Menard's cars, I got those to go to modular shows, they travel well as they don't have a lot of delicate detail.  Sadly, they have lousy trucks, so I'm in the process of replacing them with MTH trucks.  Kinda' kills the bargain part of the cars, but I want to make them usable.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Those are all Menard's cars, I got those to go to modular shows, they travel well as they don't have a lot of delicate detail.  Sadly, they have lousy trucks, so I'm in the process of replacing them with MTH trucks.  Kinda' kills the bargain part of the cars, but I want to make them usable.

John, I too have been disappointed with Menards rolling stock.  It reminds me of the cheap stuff from AHM in the 1970s. I didn’t bother fixing the couplers.  I just sold them at a yard sale.  

@rattler21 posted:

Is track necessary or would grooves(ruts) in the wood do?  Grooves could be cut on a table saw or router.  John

Groves cut in wood works fine. Here's mine, cut  with a table saw. The third grove is for the sliding plexiglass windows. (Dust is the enemy , a problem that unfortunately the commercially available metal open shelving doesn't resolve.) I put the metal L support brackets on top rather than on the bottom of the shelves, as can be seen in the second photo under the reefer and tank car, and under the CNW caboose in the first shot, which pretty much hides them from view. It makes the shelves more attractive with the brackets hidden.

@J. Motts posted:

Wow, many different ways to figure out the spacings, thank you guys, I really appreciate it and I think everyone has a varied but good idea.  Based on your suggestions, I'm going to set my shelves which will hold my largest and heaviest locomotives at 6" in between the top of the track and bottom of the next shelf, maybe even an inch higher.  They will also be placed at an easy height where I can easily pick them up and take them off, I'm going to try and keep them around the 48" to 5' level.  The smaller and liter locomotives will go above them.  Rolling stock will be below and up above the locomotives in most cases.
Thanks again for your terrific answers, they are all very much appreciated.

Mine are 6" apart.  I tried them closer, 5-1/2" I think but ended up taking them down and spacing them out a little more to be able to get a good grip on the scale steam engines.  Mine are below the layout, which is a bit awkward, so I wanted to make sure I didn't drop an engine.  When I get a little farther along with the layout, I plan to add shelves for cars.  I may put them closer together to squeeze in another shelf, since the cars aren't heavy to lift.  I do not have any extra high modern cars, nor do I ever plan on getting any, so perhaps 5" or closer would be fine.  I don't have any beer cans, but this 12-ounce pop can is 4-3/4" high.

6" spacers....made from scrap 2x4s

Peter

Peter and Mark, I agree with you guys, the big steam engines are really heavy and the extra room will come in handy.  I'm assuming that everyone starts with the bottom shelf and then goes up.  The wall I'm going to start on has an outlet on it so I'll just start right above it and go up.
I read John's post about the sorry trucks on the Menards cars, I was thinking about getting 8 to 10 of their long flat cars to put some loads on them after I detail them a little.  Is their a good source for Lionel or MTH trucks and are they readily available?
Thanks for your great posts everyone, they are very helpful and greatly appreciated.

I decided to track mine since theses two are visible outside the layout. I have two more shelves underneath that currently have no track. All 5.5 inch spaced. Added a few LED Strips to highlight. Doesn’t show well in photos.

It's always a trade-off between capacity and appearance, so I landed in the 7 inch club.  When I was setting up my display, I tried spacing as tight as 5.5 inches, but I didn't care for the resulting cramped, Venetian blind look. Although closer spacing would have let me display more trains, I think the wider spacing looks better and makes for easier handling of the equipment, especially the heavy die-cast and brass locomotives.

Have a look ( and please excuse the dust ) -

Cheers,

- Mike

@J. Motts posted:

I read John's post about the sorry trucks on the Menards cars, I was thinking about getting 8 to 10 of their long flat cars to put some loads on them after I detail them a little.

As it turns out, unless they've changed them, the Menard's 14" flatcars actually have really nice sprung trucks.  Why they don't use those on some of the other products can only be they're shaving nickles off the build cost.  I have at least 20 of the 14" flatcars, they're really a nice product.  I just wish the rest of the product line lived up to that example.

@Mike Casatelli posted:

Have a look ( and please excuse the dust ) -

Mike,

Your shelving displays have always been a "class act"!

I believe you have to also consider how do you dust your trains in your decision. Will you routinely dust them while on the shelf? If so what space will be require for the “swifter” or whatever you use so it fits without knocking them over as you move along.  

@Big Jim - Nah, the trains are the class act, the shelves are just a glass act, and  they’re a bit long in the tooth now, but they're all I've got. That said, thanks for the compliment. And it's nice to hear from you. It’s been a while.

@Rich Wiemann - You've got a real point there. Dusting for open displays is a problem, at least where I live, and I need to dust the glass, too. I have never found an effective way to leave the trains in place and successfully remove the dust, so three or four times a year I actually take the trains down and remove the track to clean everything. Model Railroading Is Fun.

Cheer's

- Mike

Very nice displays and ideas from all.  Pictures speak volumes. One more thing to remember is that most engines especially die cast steamers weigh quite a bit.  Scale diesels are hefty also.  Much more than rolling stock or passenger cars.  Remember to anchor any shelves firmly so that your shelf will not tip one way or the other and your prize, expensive engine and rolling stock roll off on to the floor.  This may sound like common sense but I have heard of it happening.  Thanks again to all for the pics and improvement ideas!

FuzzyD

Make sure you use a stud finder and screw long good quality screws into the studs to hold your brackets and shelving up. Especially on the ones holding your locomotives, that's a lot of weight and expensive equipment that you don't want to trust drywall, cheap screws that can snap, and/or  hollow wall anchors to hold it all up. I used to be a School Custodian and had to repair many walls where teachers or other staff tried to hang heavy objects and not bother to hit the studs or ask me to hang it the right way in the first place, then be mad when something failed and their item got ruined hitting the floor

My shelves are spaced, 5 1/2" apart,  The shelving manufacture/supplier usually has a good detail/instruction sheet on installation available from their website.

Size #10 pan head X 2" screw minimum, installed center of each vertical wall stud.

Website information #10 X 1 1/2" screws.

After some trial and error, I found that the combination of drilling 5/32" holes in the shelves and GRK cabinet screws (star bit required) into the studs worked very well for installing my aluminum shelves.

Don't be bound by the idea that all your shelves have to be the same space apart - I've usually put larger shelving near the bottom to display the bigger pieces like small accessories or G gauge pieces. Aesthetically it will look better too.

GRJ, thanks for the tip about the Menards 14 3/4" flats, I'm going to order some of them today.  Atlas are very hard to find, I really like theirs.  Mike C., I really love those glass shelves, they really stand out, no pun intended.  The look to be not only stout but also very heavy.  I'm sure those are custom made for you, they look great.  Rich W., good suggestion about dusting, thanks, luckily, up here in the DFW area there is not quite as much dust as I had back in El Paso.  Fuzzy D., I anchor the daylight out of my shelves, I use the studs whenever I can with extra long screws and also drill holes in-between and use the 50 to 75 lb wall anchors, they don't budge when I get finished hanging them, that way I can put both heavy locomotives and rolling stock on them.  Very good suggestion, thank you.  Gary P., your suggestions are well taken, I use two different stud finders plus the old tried and true method of driving a small nail in just to make sure that I'm hitting the studs and as Blue Comet400 suggests about the cabinet screws, I will be using 2 1/2" lengths for the studs.  Mike CT., that is also a good idea about the #10 screws.  C. Sam, good idea about using larger shelves for items like G Scale, I have a small amount but plan on picking up a few more pieces as my wife wants an around the room shelf layout so I can run my LGB stuff that I have.
I started marking the locations of the studs on the first wall, I started out finding the center of the wall and bam right away, when I laid my 6' level against the wall, I discovered that the studs in the center of the wall is not set correctly, it just happens to stick out which in turn puts a bow in the wall, any suggestions on how to get around this?  I'm thinking that I'll just mount the shelf unit and then put a small spacer the thickness that is needed to fill in the space behind the shelf and the wall and drill a hole thru it.  This way, I have a filler behind the shelf in which to run the screw thru.  This was not a good way to start out, I'm sure there is a solution to this I'm just not sure how to come up with it and come up with one that works.  I was really disappointed when I discovered it.

Have a great day and week and as always, thanks so much for your suggestions and comments.

@J. Motts posted:

GRJ, thanks for the tip about the Menards 14 3/4" flats, I'm going to order some of them today.  Atlas are very hard to find, I really like theirs.  Mike C., I really love those glass shelves, they really stand out, no pun intended.  The look to be not only stout but also very heavy.  I'm sure those are custom made for you, they look great.  Rich W., good suggestion about dusting, thanks, luckily, up here in the DFW area there is not quite as much dust as I had back in El Paso.  Fuzzy D., I anchor the daylight out of my shelves, I use the studs whenever I can with extra long screws and also drill holes in-between and use the 50 to 75 lb wall anchors, they don't budge when I get finished hanging them, that way I can put both heavy locomotives and rolling stock on them.  Very good suggestion, thank you.  Gary P., your suggestions are well taken, I use two different stud finders plus the old tried and true method of driving a small nail in just to make sure that I'm hitting the studs and as Blue Comet400 suggests about the cabinet screws, I will be using 2 1/2" lengths for the studs.  Mike CT., that is also a good idea about the #10 screws.  C. Sam, good idea about using larger shelves for items like G Scale, I have a small amount but plan on picking up a few more pieces as my wife wants an around the room shelf layout so I can run my LGB stuff that I have.
I started marking the locations of the studs on the first wall, I started out finding the center of the wall and bam right away, when I laid my 6' level against the wall, I discovered that the studs in the center of the wall is not set correctly, it just happens to stick out which in turn puts a bow in the wall, any suggestions on how to get around this?  I'm thinking that I'll just mount the shelf unit and then put a small spacer the thickness that is needed to fill in the space behind the shelf and the wall and drill a hole thru it.  This way, I have a filler behind the shelf in which to run the screw thru.  This was not a good way to start out, I'm sure there is a solution to this I'm just not sure how to come up with it and come up with one that works.  I was really disappointed when I discovered it.

Have a great day and week and as always, thanks so much for your suggestions and comments.

Yeah, to deal with a wall that isn't flat use some washers to help with the spacing.  I saw a video on this a while back online, it was on "Sean's Train Depot" channel.  He walked through how he deals with his shelves on uneven walls in a lot of detail.

Thanks for starting this thread, I have to build some new shelves, and this has given me some great ideas!

Yep, I had wavy walls for all my shelves, there is as much as 1/4" of spacer in a couple of places.

I use 6 inches that way it is easy for me to handle the rolling stock or locomotives and works out better because I build my own shelving out of 1x4 's and grove the wood on the table saw and 6 inches works out very evenly.

I would suggest using screws 1/8 - 1/4" less than (1 1/2" plus the thickness of the wall board).  Building code requires electrical wires and plumbing running through a wall to be set back from the stud face 1 1/2" minimum or when not possible to have a metal nail plate affixed to the stud face over the wire/pipe penetration.  A good stud finder will be able to locate AC voltage and metal behind a wood framed wall.

Using screws longer than 2" to secure brackets through drywall, risks puncturing any wires or pipes running through the wall.  For an 1/8" thick bracket installed over drywall, I would suggest using 1 3/4 minimum to 2 maximum length #10 pan head screws"

Afternoon Everyone.  I have a funny to tell you all, then you can call me a goober or dumbass afterwards.  I was working on my shelves this morning and had a minor accident happen to me.  Jetsafl told about watching Sean's Train Depot, (is he a hobby shop?) which I did and I thought his idea about using the flat washers as spacers behind the shelf on wavy walls was a great idea, I'm sorry I didn't think of it myself but kudos to him for a great idea.  So I picked up all the supplies I needed and off to the races I went, some portions required 1 spacer and a couple required 2 on the 1st row, on to the 2nd which I was working on this morning.  I laid out my 2 X 4 blocks (another great idea, I went with 6" in-between) using 6 of them across the 72" shelf.  I got it all lined up and marked off my drill holes, and then drilled out the holes where I needed them.  I put my first screw in the stud, (I'm using 2 1/2" GRK Cabinet Screws and SteveH this is for you), these are going directly into the center of the studs so I'm not really worried about hitting anything, I actually use 2 different stud finders, one is a Franklin sensor which seems to be very accurate and then just to make sure I'm using one of the upper end Zircon Center Finding sensors.  Between  the two, they seem to agree with each other on the center of the stud, then I mark the center and drive a small nail into it just to make sure.  Overkill maybe but better to be safe than sorry, right?  
So on the 2nd shelf, I had mentioned that I had my holes drilled and I figured out that two of the holes were going to need 4 flat washers to cover the space, so I went to the work bench and took 4 washers and got them ready to build up, I opened a new bottle of ACC instant set, after cutting the little tip off the top of the nozzle, I shoved a needle into the nozzle to open it up and didn't realize that the liquid rushed up the needle and I ended up gluing my thumb and 1st finger together, I felt it but before I could pull my fingers apart it had set.  Not a good situation and then I looked around for my bottle of stuff that de-glues the joined pieces, couldn't find it and I didn't have a bottle of Acetone anywhere either and neither did my wife.  So I grabbed my razor knife and tried to pull my fingers apart and started to cut, thought I was cutting right down the middle of both fingers but that wasn't the case and I nicked my thumb, I guess the law of averages finally caught up with me, I've done this many times in the past and never had any problems or bad luck.  OK, so now you guys can call me an idiot or whatever as I deserve it.  I should have known better and just hopped in the truck and ran to the drug store and got a bottle of Acetone.
Anyway, I'm happy to report that I got the washers all put together and I use a magnet to hold on to them to keep them in place while I put the screw thru and then I drive them home.  And yes, I'm very careful when I put a small dot of ACC on  the washer now.  I have to say these have really made putting the shelves up a lot more easy.  My only complaint with my whole process so far has been that when I tighten down the screws, by the way, I'm able to install 5 of these long screws into the wall studs.  However,  when I tighten them down, they make the front of the shelf lift up a little bit at the tip of the shelf.  I'm not sure why, I try to drill in the middle of the back plate but it makes the front tilt up by as much as 1/8." Since it does this, I may go back and cut an 1/8" to 3/16" off the block.  Any thoughts on this?
I've bent your ears long enough but I really appreciate your responses, I always seem to learn something from your replies.  Thanks again for all of the great answers

1. Latex gloves

2. Don't glue the washers together, anymore - my G.S. shelves are mounted on a knotty pine wall, so it is automatically uneven. I used washers to straighten everything out, but never even thought about gluing them together. 

@J. Motts Kudos on using a stud finder to locate the center of the stud, that will definitely give the screws a better grip and help avoid any pipes and wires running along side the studs vertically.

If any wires or pipes are running horizontally through the studs you may be in for an unpleasant surprise using 2 1/2" screws.