Steam Update: Locomotive No. 4014 Front Engine Walk Along • with working drawings

Cool!! I had no idea there were that many parts on a steam engine, let alone a big boy. I wonder what percentage of original parts vs new there are. The way Ed was talking, it sounded like mostly new, including some design updates. Thanks for posting.

When HW talks about where the real money is spent on a steam restoration, this is what he’s talking about.  The boiler and firebox is the easy part.

Jon  

Terrific, thanks for the post! Curiosity about the status of this project is always percolating somewhere in the back of my mind.

Ed does do quality work, should last 'forever' when the work is done. My personal opinion is that while Ed will not accept anything other than perfect, don't think it is going to make May 2019. Still a lot of work to go even before test firing.

I thought he said last spring they'd have it test fired by Halloween and moving under steam by Thanksgiving. Looks like he'll just push those dates back by 6 months like MTH & Lionel does!!

The crew restoring 4014 is doing a fantastic job! My expectation is that unknown unknowns in a project of this magnitude and complexity would drive the best of schedules. It is more important to get the restoration of 4014 right regardless of a schedule.

As long as it is on track for May 10, 2019 for the 150th Anniversary of the Golden Spike, then I am happy   I will be heading out there for that!

Bobby Ogage posted:

The crew restoring 4014 is doing a fantastic job! My expectation is that unknown unknowns in a project of this magnitude and complexity would drive the best of schedules. It is more important to get the restoration of 4014 right regardless of a schedule.

Really?  If they don't make the schedule for the huge May 10, 2019 celebration of the 150th anniversary of the "gold spike" completion of the "Transcontinental Railroad", then what's the point of rebuilding the 4014 in the first place?

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Cool!! I had no idea there were that many parts on a steam engine, let alone a big boy. I wonder what percentage of original parts vs new there are. The way Ed was talking, it sounded like mostly new, including some design updates. Thanks for posting.

The impression I am getting is that they are replacing wear items or parts that cannot be reconditioned to original specifications.  Bushings, for example, are being replaced throughout the running gear, as well as suspension leaf and coil springs.  Driver tires have been replaced with new.  Lube lines and fittings are being replaced while they are accessible.  Exhaust nozzle castings and nozzle tips that were cinder-worn and badly deteriorated have been replaced with new fabricated parts.  Other complex assemblies such as the mechanical lubricator and exhaust steam injector are being rebuilt.

When they are done, the 4014 will be nearly a brand new locomotive.

Scott Griggs

Louisville, KY

I find it amazing that so many here can tell so much about project scheduling, estimating completion dates, and if a project is indeed behind. Simply from viewing a five minute video that does not show, well, anything...

I would be curious if they test the engine to check for steam/lubrication leaks etc.  Easier to correct than when under the boiler frame.

eldodroptop posted:

I find it amazing that so many here can tell so much about project scheduling, estimating completion dates, and if a project is indeed behind. Simply from viewing a five minute video that does not show, well, anything...

If you have never worked on a large main line steam locomotive, nor been involved in the overhaul/restoration of one, I can see why you would make such a comment. 

Ok, great. Give me the reasons why you can tell anything about this project and it’s current state of completion vs where it needs to be in five months.

There has been NO public information that has been made available as to the current timelines of completion. Your, or anyone’s, wealth of experience in the matter does NOT make for a magical ability to give factual information about a project completion schedule or anything else. The only people capable of giving a real answer work for the Union Pacific. And they ain’t talking.

It is very frustrating to read baseless pontifications on so many different restoration projects. It’s not just the 4014. 

eldodroptop posted:

It is very frustrating to read baseless pontifications on so many different restoration projects. It’s not just the 4014. 

When Hot Water or Rich or Kelly give opinions, they aren't really "baseless."

It looks to my (admittedly untrained eye) that Ed and crew are doing a great job! I hope to see her run one day. 

sgriggs posted:

The impression I am getting is that they are replacing wear items or parts that cannot be reconditioned to original specifications.  Bushings, for example, are being replaced throughout the running gear, as well as suspension leaf and coil springs.  Driver tires have been replaced with new.  Lube lines and fittings are being replaced while they are accessible.  Exhaust nozzle castings and nozzle tips that were cinder-worn and badly deteriorated have been replaced with new fabricated parts.  Other complex assemblies such as the mechanical lubricator and exhaust steam injector are being rebuilt.

When they are done, the 4014 will be nearly a brand new locomotive.

 Scott Griggs

They really are bringing things up to spec. Seems to me no corners are being cut. They're doing great things in the shop itself, too. I look forward to more of these short videos.

Like everyone else, I don't know what the long range plans are. Seems they're really looking toward the future. I hope so. These machines are such an important part of our American history …. hate to see it all fade away.

Dickens should go out and speak to certain youth/student groups …. engage mechanically interested young people.

Anyway, good luck to the steam shop crew in trying to get 4014 squared away for next year. 

Hot Water posted:

Bobby Ogage posted:

The crew restoring 4014 is doing a fantastic job! My expectation is that unknown unknowns in a project of this magnitude and complexity would drive the best of schedules. It is more important to get the restoration of 4014 right regardless of a schedule.

Really?  If they don't make the schedule for the huge May 10, 2019 celebration of the 150th anniversary of the "gold spike" completion of the "Transcontinental Railroad", then what's the point of rebuilding the 4014 in the first place?

While obviously getting it done for the 150 anniversary of the Golden Spike was probably in the forefront of why they did this now, in the end the restoration of 4014 is the reason the UP has a steam program at all, it is part of celebrating the heritage of the UP. After all, the Big Boy was created during WWII, it wasn't there at Promotory point, so you could argue that restoring it is irrelevant to that celebration. I could just as easily argue that being part of the WWII effort, that they didn't have it done by the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII in August, 1945, meant it wasn't worth doing, or that celebrating the 150th anniversary (or 100th, or 10th, or 25th), is arbitrary. Basically the reason the 4014 is being restored is the same reason they are making a big deal out of the 150th anniversary of the Golden spike, it is a great promotion for the railroad through celebrating its history.  I hope they get it done by May 2014, would be awesome, but if they don't make that date it still is an amazing project IMO, one the pencil pushers and the hedge fund managers and bankers and accountants and other people with lead poisoning for a soul haven't been able to kill, that in itself warrants a celebration. 

Someone who knows any kind of mechanical build or rebuild can tell you a lot from a surprisingly small amount of information, even pictures, because they have been there and done that. I can tell you looking at pictures of a car being restored, basically of some of the key areas, how much is likely left before it can be completed, doing a ground up restoration of a car can take years (some of these car shows like Overhaulin where they rebuild a car in a week are taking a lot of shortcuts and doing things a classic restoration shop would not do, not to mention they are literally working people around the clock on those shows).  

On the other hand, knowing the kind of weirdos (said with all the love in the world) who would do a project like this, I would bet pretty good money the people working on the project are putting a lot of time and hours into it, I doubt very much this is a 9 to 5 rebuild of 'just another engine', and if there is any way to make it by May 2019 it won't because they aren't trying. What likely is bogging them down is what bogs down car restorers, you get a car that supposedly just needs a bit of tlc here and there, and suddenly you find out the frame has serious rot, the floor pans are gone, the engine has 2 cylinders that are frozen, the wiring harness has been chewed on by some form of rodent, you name it...(and the owner indignantly tells the guy at the garage he had had this restored 5 years ago, so it couldn't be that bad...).   With something that hasn't been maintained other than cosmetics for almost 70 years,  you are basically redoing the thing almost from scratch, and also even with blueprints trying to figure out what this oddball part did and that one

One thing that also needs to factored in is the weather. Here in the Rocky Mountain states, forecasters are predicting a cold and snowy winter. Ed and Ted and a couple of other guys commute 100 miles to work and another 100 back (Denver to Cheyenne)  7 DAYS A WEEK! Fatigue is bound to set in.

Ed Dickens, Senior Manager, UP Steam Team; is showing us all the operations that we can not see after the locomotive is put back together. This forced feed lubrication system is an example of a key system.

Back in the day, I used to operate a large Heidelberg Offset Printing Press and these printing presses use the same type of forced feed lubrication system. It is still done this way on new presses, but with computer monitors.

Have you guys or gals noted any other important systems in this video?

Gary: Rail-fan

trainroomgary posted:

Ed Dickens, Senior Manager, UP Steam Team; is showing us all the operations that we can not see after the locomotive is put back together. This forced feed lubrication system is an example of a key system.

Back in the day, I used to operate a large Heidelberg Offset Printing Press and these printing presses use the same type of forced feed lubrication system. It is still done this way on new presses, but with computer monitors.

Have you guys or gals noted any other important systems in this video?

Gary: Rail-fan

Hey Gary,

I worked in a print shop doing everything (including deliveries) but running the press machines.

They use AB Dick single color and two color offset presses. The press operators were all crazy. I'm guess because they were using chemicals that warned, "may alter DNA".

Is there a backup plan if BB is not ready.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Is there a backup plan if BB is not ready.

If there is, nobody at UP is talking.

Chuck Sartor posted:

One thing that also needs to factored in is the weather. Here in the Rocky Mountain states, forecasters are predicting a cold and snowy winter. Ed and Ted and a couple of other guys commute 100 miles to work and another 100 back (Denver to Cheyenne)  7 DAYS A WEEK! Fatigue is bound to set in.

We hear in Fredericksburg Va. had to commute to DC for 1Hr. 45 to 2 Hrs long, Each Way. You learn to zone out as we said to catch up on the rest. I digress, I wish you every success on you great venture. We hope to see a video of it someday. If you guys are not doing anything after the 4014 rebuild we have a 4-6-2 over here in Altoona Pa that we would like you look over to see what can be done if anything to get her running. Currently the 1361 is sitting in parts in the round house in Altoona.

I had the great fortune to inspect the 4014 firebox by sitting in the firebox when I lived in LA.

Thank you for the updates.

John Pignatelli

Chuck Sartor posted:

One thing that also needs to factored in is the weather. Here in the Rocky Mountain states, forecasters are predicting a cold and snowy winter. 

That's what I've been thinking. When I drove truck thru that area back in the late 70's & early 80's the winters in that area was brutal. -40 across Wyoming was the norm. One night traveling north on I-15 a Salt Lake radio station said it was -62 and dropping...Peter Sink hit -69 that night. Brutal man.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Ed does do quality work, should last 'forever' when the work is done. My personal opinion is that while Ed will not accept anything other than perfect, don't think it is going to make May 2019. Still a lot of work to go even before test firing.

Ed doesn’t “do” any of this work. He takes the credit and spends all the money, but he doesn’t do much of the work. He’s just the “manager” and the face of the UP steam program. The people who actually do the work don’t get any recognition.

Just more of the same old crap out of Cheyenne...

Yeah, I'm with you Rich, just like in the military, the officers don't do any of the work.

Kelly Anderson posted:

FORMER OGR CEO - RETIRED posted:

Chuck Sartor posted:

Ed does do quality work, should last 'forever' when the work is done. My personal opinion is that while Ed will not accept anything other than perfect, don't think it is going to make May 2019. Still a lot of work to go even before test firing.

Ed doesn’t “do” any of this work. He takes the credit and spends all the money, but he doesn’t do much of the work. He’s just the “manager” and the face of the UP steam program. The people who actually do the work don’t get any recognition.

Just more of the same old crap out of Cheyenne...

How much of the dirty work did you do on #765 Rich?

Shot across the bow Captain!

Kelly Anderson posted:

How much of the dirty work did you do on #765 Rich?

Seems like an unnecessary comment but OK.

I started volunteering after Rich had retired, and maybe he didn't do much dirty work on the engine, but if it weren't for all of the planning Rich did behind the scenes, we would have never left the Casad Industrial Park. It's more than just dirty work. WAY MORE.

Kelly Anderson posted:

How much of the dirty work did you do on #765 Rich?

Absolutely none! My mechanical skills are on a par with my skills in brain surgery. The guys wanted the 765 to actually run, so they wouldn’t let me near it.

The only tools I’m qualified to use are pliers and a small hammer, and then only with direct supervision. 

Brody, I appreciate you coming to my defense, but it really isn’t necessary. The 765 crew is a good team, and everyone on the team has a position to play. Mine was to work with the railroads to plan the operations, not fix the engine.

If UP is using outside help, OK.  But it might help keep heads cooler if they would mention it.  Even if was in passing within a sentence.

4014 will be running on its own railroad.  Any other steamer, except for tourist roads, has to run on tracks which IT DOES NOT OWN.  That makes the person who can make all parties "play nice" is KEY.

If not for that person, all the work on the engine would be in vain.  Why?  NO WHERE TO OPERATE.

Well see this topic degenerating.  Time for me to unfollow this topic, especially since never got a reply to my question here.

rrman posted:

I would be curious if they test the engine to check for steam/lubrication leaks etc.  Easier to correct than when under the boiler frame.

Yes, all high pressure systems, both lubrication lines and steam, are tested prior to final assembly.

Hot Water posted:

rrman posted:

I would be curious if they test the engine to check for steam/lubrication leaks etc.  Easier to correct than when under the boiler frame.

Yes, all high pressure systems, both lubrication lines and steam, are tested prior to final assembly.

Thanks Hot Water! I would have thought so, but what do I know as an armchair spectator.

Just a comment, not necessarily about this specific thread, but often those who seemingly "don't do anything" actually do a lot. Back in the 1980's the war cry was 'get rid of middle managers, they are useless', and a lot of companies found out many of those they let go had a lot of knowledge on how to get things done (known as matrix managers) and paid a price for it. I don't know Ed Dickens or the story behind the steam shop (so criticism may well be justified), but someone in his position may be the person who acts as a barrier against the pencil pushers and the like, has built up a framework of rabbis within the company to support the steam project, knows who to talk to to get things the group needs, etc. Doesn't mean that someone in his position should get all the credit or a lot of it, despise people who do that as manager, but I also don't think managers necessarily do "nothing", the success of any group can hinge on a manager doing things, big and little, that allow them to succeed; obviously there are managers who are pencil pushers, clueless, bloated egos out of Dilbert, but also a lot of managers who have worked their way up, know the score and are part of getting things done, too. Like I said, not commenting directly on the 4014 steam program, but it could be if Dickens wasn't there the project might not even have happened, or might be cancelled by some pencil pusher up the line *shrug*. 

Anyone know when this was filmed? 1 month ago, 2 months ago? more?

Tranz4mr posted:

Anyone know when this was filmed? 1 month ago, 2 months ago? more?

Hi Kent:

Above is a screenshot from today, Nov. 9, 2018 at 11:30 PM EST from the Union Pacific, YT Channel.

The video was published on Oct 31, 2018 and has been viewed 59,020 times and has 27K Subscribers. YouTube calls a successful video, when the views are 20% of the subscribers. This means that the Union Pacific videos must have at least 5400 views to be successful.

They are way over the 5500 views at 59,020 views, this is a home run with YouTube.

The video has 456 comments where the viewers have interacted with each other.

YouTube does not require that the creator give a filming date. I have watch this video several times and Ed does not give a filming date.It looks like was all filmed on the same day and there was some basic editing done by the film crew to edit the drawings, titles and transitions.

May I suggest, if you see Ed this coming January at the TCA meet in Denver, ask him what is the lead time on these YouTube videos. My guess is that it was filmed on or after October 1st, 2018 by the Union Pacific videography department. When the 844 was on there road trips the turn around time was only about two days from the event to there YT channel.

Hope this helps.  •  Gary: Rail-fan 

bigkid posted:

Just a comment, not necessarily about this specific thread, but often those who seemingly "don't do anything" actually do a lot. Back in the 1980's the war cry was 'get rid of middle managers, they are useless', and a lot of companies found out many of those they let go had a lot of knowledge on how to get things done (known as matrix managers) and paid a price for it. I don't know Ed Dickens or the story behind the steam shop (so criticism may well be justified), but someone in his position may be the person who acts as a barrier against the pencil pushers and the like, has built up a framework of rabbis within the company to support the steam project, knows who to talk to to get things the group needs, etc. Doesn't mean that someone in his position should get all the credit or a lot of it, despise people who do that as manager, but I also don't think managers necessarily do "nothing", the success of any group can hinge on a manager doing things, big and little, that allow them to succeed; obviously there are managers who are pencil pushers, clueless, bloated egos out of Dilbert, but also a lot of managers who have worked their way up, know the score and are part of getting things done, too. Like I said, not commenting directly on the 4014 steam program, but it could be if Dickens wasn't there the project might not even have happened, or might be cancelled by some pencil pusher up the line *shrug*. 

There is/ was a Director above Ed in the steam shop named Scott George.

Here's from his Linkedin page...

I think I read somewhere that Mr George is no longer in that postition.