Sunset 3rd Rail Manual: Don't use smoke?

LOL  Then why did they install one?  That makes NO sense whatsoever!  

Interesting observation, I wonder if Scott Mann will comment on this one?

I took those instructions to mean if the item arrives and is damaged or you intend to return it for whatever reason for a refund don't use smoke fluid.

Pete

A few questions:

1) How old a model is it?

2) Is it TMCC equipped, or is it an "early" conventional version?

My newly released GN M-2 2-6-8-0 has the same instructions.  I ignored it.

I have two 3rd Rail locos, as pictured. Not entirely sure of their date of manufacture. I bought them un-run. I certainly bought them to run! Whether I use the smoke units remains to be seen. Both are TMCC-equipped.

It is very simple.  Smoke residue gets on the engine when the smoke unit is run.  It can't be easily cleaned from the engine.  

Most of 3rd Rail's customers will only buy trains in pristine condition directly from 3rd Rail.  Many of 3rd Rail's customers use them as display models and never run them.  I know one person who has a room full of 3rd Rail engines on display shelves.  None of them have been run.  

Scott can't resell a returned unit as a new engine when it is run with the smoke unit.  Several times around a layout with the smoke unit off does not affect the resell value of a new engine.  

Scott is not going to give a refund for a returned engine if he can't resell it as new.

I have several 3rd Rail engines.  I run them all with the smoke units an.  I understand that I can't return them to 3rd Rail for a refund when I do this.  I will have to sell my engines when the time comes myself.  

Joe

I have no intent of creating controversy in originating this thread. I don't really have an issue with 3rd Rail not accepting a return for refund after the smoke unit is used. It makes sense.

To suggest not EVER using the smoke unit though seems, in my mind, to strongly imply something seriously deleterious about using smoke at all.

I am new to all of this. My last smoker was a 1952 Lionel Hudson (not an E!).

I gather from replies so far that not many are forgoing the use of smoke for safety or resale value reasons. I am not concerned with resale. I do wonder about the safety of these smoke units though. We are all human and subject to mistakes. It seems all but inevitable to me that the smoke unit will, on occasion, be run dry in error. Now, a hot resistor, embedded into an apparently flammable batting seems more an arsonist's tool than a "toy" train?

If it has a smoke unit, then a customer must be able to use it. I would never buy any model that has an option built in that the manual says it can not be used, just does not sound right...My opinion of course.

You can use it. Just don't expect to get a full refund if you decide you don't like it. 

Pete

.......or you will not be able to return it for a refund.

I think you may be misinterpreting the wording. I'm not sure what the stipulatiions regarding a "return" are outside of not using the smoke units.

Returns for refunds from any other manufacturer are nearly non-existent, the only one I can think being Lionels waterlogged turbines.

"I now read in another thread that these smoke units can actually cause fire within the units!"

IMO this is also a statement being taking out of context. You should look up they layout that spontaneously combusted catching the owners house on fire.

I have a few, and they always recommended not using the smoke unit. I don't use

smoke that much, so it meant little to me - but that note in the instructions would

never stop me from using the smoke unit, anyway. I have used them on most of the 3rd Rail locos that I have.

They put the smoke units in 3-rail locos because some/most of us expect one to be there,

and would affect sales if it were absent (I would buy it anyway). But that instruction

not only deals with "returned" items (and I understand it, there), but also reflects

that old-fashioned, O-scale, "brass is a work of art" (oh, please) attitude that we silly

3-railers just can't be expected to understand. 

Smoke'em if ya got'em.

(BTW - it is my understanding that, in the rarified world of O-brass, Sunset Models

locos have typically been regarded as "entry-level brass", and not up to the standards

of some other offerings. I have no idea if such is true.)  

I just wish that the 3rd rail locos had  better smoke units in them.. My P7e B and O has what I call essence of smoke.. If you look hard you can see it but it doesn't smoke like a real steam loco would smoke. Or a later Lionel or any  MTH steamer either.. Its my only real complaint I have with this loco. it is Beautiful and the sound system is great too and it runs really nice too. .

"I took those instructions to mean if the item arrives and is damaged or you intend to return it for whatever reason for a refund don't use smoke fluid".

I agree with Pete.  The same disclaimer was included with the recent Train of Tomorrow instructions.  I think the intent is if you are not happy with the engine/set you can't return it for a refund if you fired up the smoke unit.  If you like the set, feel free to smoke em'.  I did.

Rich

Most if not all modern O gauge smoke units are connected to a circuit board that shuts down the unit if it overheats.  This usually happens when the smoke unit is dry.  People should be fine running the smoke unit when it has the proper amount of fluid.  

I have never heard of a smoke unit catching fire.  The only thing that caught fire in any of my engines was a circuit board.  It really smelled bad and smoked up the layout.  This incident had nothing to do with the smoke unit.   I still don't know why this board burnt itself up.  A new board quickly repaired the engine.  

Joe

hello guys and gals.........

My Sunset 3rd S.F.5011 came with one but never use it. The smoke oil will stain or wet the paint finish and hard to remove it without ruining the paint finish.  All brass locomotives and rolling stock is a work of art because of the lost wax 3D castings details. 

Tiffany

I'm okay with this statement and I understand it and think it is reasonable.  I read the manual, understood, and fired the smoke right up on my ToT right away.  No worries. 

I know about the smoke-unit statement when I am buying 3rd Rail-Golden Gate.  It's been good stuff up to now, and I expect that continue . . .   

On those rare occasions when I have bought a brand-new 3rd Rail locomotive, I have refrained from running the smoke unit until I have test run it for long enough that I'm sure I won't be sending it back. Then I turn on the smoke unit. Some folks buy a brass engine purely for display; I buy it to run. My 3rd Rail SP Mogul is actually one of my better smokers (other than MTH, of course).