T1 trust. The right locomotive built at the right time by the right people for the wrong reasons?

Charlie posted:

Read the T1 Trust Facebook page as I was not that aware of the goal of the project and I have to say I really see no problem with the goal of the group.

Kind of refreshing really. If it does not work out, there was still a group of dedicated people who decided to get off their A** and try to do something that interested them.

After reading some of the BS posted above I hope the group not only breaks the speed record, I hope they do it pulling a much heavier load going uphill against the wind!

Then when that is done, I hope someone from the other side of the pond tries the same thing. Much more interesting to me.

Charlie

 

I don't know about "going uphill against the wind" but "Mallard" was going downhill  when she set the record and with a rather light train by US standards as well. With the drawbar horsepower of a T1 and a proportionally comparable consist, I don't see why a T1 couldn't best the A4's performance.

The question is if we will ever see it and of that I remain dubious.

Hot Water posted:

p51 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

And for the speed test run, the only cars you could pit behind it today would be Amfleets.

Wrong!

Yeah, I've seen private cars zooming down the NE corridor behind the fastest electric engines that Amtrak has, and I'd bet those are going (or at least can go) as fast as the steam speed record, as they regularly go 125 down that track and way faster with the Acela.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jack, but doesn't "Amtrak certified" for a private car mean they can go down the NE Corridor as well at those high speeds?

Yes.

Amtrak currently has two speed certifications for operation of privately owned cars, 90 MPH and 110 MPH.

I could find no information regarding limits on the operation of non-Amtrak motive power.

 

If this beast gets built, there is one issue concerning going after MALLARD's record.    the ROW, to me, bettered be "sealed", jut in case of an accident.  And if there is an accident, this might put all or most non-Amtrak or non-transit special trains at risk.

Sealed:  From other trains and non paying or non invited guests.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

If this beast gets built, there is one issue concerning going after MALLARD's record.    the ROW, to me, bettered be "sealed", jut in case of an accident.  And if there is an accident, this might put all or most non-Amtrak or non-transit special trains at risk.

Sealed:  From other trains and non paying or non invited guests.

The AAR Test Center, out in Colorado, is very definitely "sealed".

Are there long enough straight sections at Pueblo to run anything that fast?

Sorry guys, but even if an attempt to set a speed record is possible, I just don't see the point.  Who CARES how fast some goofy looking British loco went?  To me, it would just waste a WHOLE LOT of money that could be better put to use on other preservation projects.  I just don't see some supposed speed record as being worth pursuing in this day in age.  I'm sure I'm in the minority here.  I just think the downside outweighs the upside.

I'm over all impressed with the Trust.  They are pouring and bending metal.  They have converted (or continue to) paper plans to CAD files.  They are biting off and producing key pieces that build trust, make waves, open eyeballs and result in more donations.  They have demonstrated using modern technology to cast one of the complex parts of the locomotive and then repeat it a 2nd time.  They have researched current industrial capabilities and have decided the work can be done.  

We can now look back on history to see mainline steam seems to come and go in cycles.  There was the run in the 80's and 90's, and now the run in 2010's.  I suspect it's waning once again, with a difference being with some class 1's being willing to allow movement if the organization has proven professional ability.  Any discussion on where it could run today is just foamer banter, IMHO.  It is more important the locomotive is built to standard and the organization is professional and has faces, names and reputations that are known and trusted by the railroaders.   Perhaps about the time this project is done, we will be on one of the up cycles.

As to the speed limit.  Shoot for it. But realize the Brit A4 ran for a DECADE before they reached a point where they could demonstrate 100mph running.  IMHO, it's a little early to be talking where, track conditions, dynamic loads and what it will be pulling.

Bob

Kelly Anderson posted:

p51 posted:

I haven't read much on the T-1s, but several knowledgeable steam folks aren't calling BS on the possibility, so to me this suggests it was technically possible for a T1 to have gone that fast. I doubt it ever did, from what I've read.

Vernon Smith who wrote the book "One Man's Locomotives" and did mechanical work on T1's in his position with Franklin Railway Supply (the company that supplied the poppet valve gear) had quite a bit to say about them, good and bad.  His comments ended with something like, "It's pretty hard to criticize an engine when the engineer can write up on the inspection report after a routine run, 'Engine rides rough above 125 MPH.'."

Glad you brought that up, Kelly. I knew Mr. Smith quite well, and called on him a lot, when he was CMO at the Belt Railway of Chicago. He still had all is notebooks from riding the T-1s as part of his duties with the Franklin Railway Supply Co. (his son has since provided all of Vernon's 'papers' to the T-1 Trust), and told me many stories of the T-1s exceeding 125 MPH between Ft Wayne and Chicago, and Ft Wayne and Crestline, Ohio. With a proper locomotive Engineer, the T-1s could be unbelievable performers!

p51 posted:

Are there long enough straight sections at Pueblo to run anything that fast?

Lee:

Its been about 16 years or so since I last visited TTC but, if memory serves; they have something like 48 miles of track at the Pueblo site.  They have tested just about all of the new high speed equipment Amtrak has taken over the years such as the Acela and the new Sprinter's.

I think they could handle a high speed test of the T1 with no problems; assuming they were so inclined.  

Even if TTC was willing to host the speed test; the Trust would still have to get the T1 to and from Pueblo and that would most likely be a bit of a "booger".

Curt

Should they be able to attempt the speed record, it will be good publicity for the RR and the group. A short-lived event in this fast paced world we live in. Having such a memorable locomotive back in service will be a lasting benefit for everyone. I hope that I get to see it sometime...

Given this type of engine is very restricted in the minimum radius curve it can negotiate it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the companies whose trackage it might be traversing.

While I don't subscribe to world records set down hill and in one direction (should be an average in both directions to account for wind assist and gravity); there is no changing history.  I think the Germans had the more substantive claim however.

Could there have been faster runs in the US?  Possibly, but we will never know.

I applaud their efforts to get such a unique type of engine manufactured today but if just  setting a new type of record for a steam powered train is all they hope to achieve then that doesn't make sense. Nothing can change that record; for regular steam hauled passenger operation ceased years ago and a test track run at a higher speed will be seen for what it is.

Has anybody considered that the poms might just go and grab it back again? They have plenty of high speed mainlines or they could run in Germany. A lot has been learnt about steam loco design since the 30's that can be applied to existing engines.

Bob

They are not building it to break a record.  They are attempting to build it because it was a high water mark of US steam locomotive technology, and is judged by many a worthy project unto itself.  The point of the record is:  Should the thing get built, and the stars align, well why the heck not? 

And if the Limeys think "bloody hell, we're not going to stand for that!"  How could that possibly be a bad thing?  Room for the Germans in the party as well.  

Dieselbob posted:

Sorry guys, but even if an attempt to set a speed record is possible, I just don't see the point.  Who CARES how fast some goofy looking British loco went? 

Lots of LOTs of people (especially in the UK) would care. All you need to do is see Mallard in its museum to know how big a deal the 1938 record is even to this day to the Brits. It's a huge point of pride among those who care about railroads in the UK.

And for the public in general, speed records are something people can relate to, even the layman. Think of the publicity anyone would have for saying to the press, "Coming next weekend, the world's fastest steam locomotive!" That's worth a fortune in PR. Any news story on such a locomotive would lead with "world's record," as it does for Mallard when it gets discussed.

Maybe if they get the axle between those two drivers, they could go for a speed record with the two wheels.

I have always loved the T1. Would like to get an O Gauge version of it soon (hoping Lionel brings back the LionMaster T1). 

Either way - I'm a pretty skeptical person and I'll admit, I kind of laughed at these guys when I first heard about this project. I'm NOT laughing now. I'm very, very impressed at what has been done so far and I have no doubt this thing will be built one day. Hope I'm alive to see it. 

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath Waiting for this T1 replica to pull a train or betting any money on it...

But if the British Tornado project or UP restoring a 4000 to run taught me anything, its not to assume something could never happen.