Tail End Tuesday

Well, since we seem to be doing obs, here's one of mine.

Lionel

In the course of digging out a couple of cars for the currently popular MPC thread, I finally found the misplaced caboose from my original 1962 train set. Nothing fancy... no lights, no windows, but this still is one of my favorite cars.

Well its late on Tuesday for me, but Im going to post anyway.   Here  is the #9063 "Grand Trunk" (GT) Railroad caboose by Lionel.  This is a very early MPC caboose cataloged in 1970 and available as an uncatalogued car 1971-73. As Apples 55 said of his caboose nothing fancy...no lights or windows and only one coupler but I always liked the orange color especially in those early MPC days as their color schemes offered more than the traditional red.

Happy Tuesday everyone

Don

Have a great Tail End all! Couple Bandits trying to rob some P.R.R. caboose and passenger cars.

A little “m” decal goes a long way.

TAIL END MYSTERY ... OK T.E.T. fans I thought I would both give you all a bit of a puzzle and (maybe) find out something I have been trying to find out for a couple of years.  Enclosed are pictures of two Marx type 4 wheel cabooses.  Now we all know that most of these are common as dirt since Marx produced far more freight trains than passenger (he believed they provided more play value) and since in his time every freight train had a caboose ... well that makes the caboose the most common car by far.

So in about 2018 or so while at a train show near Dallas, I picked up (it was one I didn't have and it was cheap) what I believed to be a Marx caboose for the Arkansas RR.  After returning home I  reviewed every Marx reference source I can find (and I have quite a few) plus all my copies of their "catalogues" and all the Christmas adds from bot Sears and Montgomery Wards...and NO Arkansas RR caboose.

The following pictures compare the Arkansas RR caboose with a very common, NYC Pacemaker caboose and the molds for the car body appear identical except for the logo and I will show you the difference.

First, a general view, here are the two cabooses.  You can see the similarity easily.  Note one has a full smokestack and the other does not...this could be Marx truncating the exhaust stack mold (done before) or the Arkansas RR caboose has just had it broken off (easy to do as they are fragile and exposed). Due to lighting you cannot see the truck facade too easily on the Arkansas RR caboose , but it is identical to the NYC.

Here is the "non-coupler" end of the caboose and all the similarities hold including the number of rail supports and the mold of the rear door.

Here is the coupler end.  Note that the similarity continues even to include: the bars over the rear window, the detail in the door, the coupler support bar, the embossing on the coupler and the shape of the shank, and even the NON-USED hole for a screw that is not installed nor is it possible to install as there is no back up structure.

So here is the key difference.  The Marx caboose has an embossed logo on both sides of the two side windows.  The embossing is clearly visible and contains the Mark / USA logo.

The Arkansas RR caboose has the place for the embossed logo, even has the border line circle, but NO MARX LOGO...!!   The circle is blank on the inside.  Now removing the logo is logical as this car was obviously not sold by Marx and there would have been proprietary rights or trademark issues with retaining it.   Note how the rest of the mold is identical to the Marx car, including such small items as the window frame, simulated grab handles, rivets and stair steps. The simulated marker lights are present they are just on the other end from this picture.

So who made the Arkansas RR caboose?  It is clearly a Marx mold, giving almost identical features to a typical Marx 4 wheel caboose but it does not have the Marx logo.  This caboose was obviously molded with very minimal changes and as it was always a cheap train car not investing in unnecessary mold changes would be logical.  Just take the logo off and you are good to go.  Before you ask, no it doesn't have any other logo either molded or stamped nor does it have a country of origin.

Well there is your T.E.T mystery...open to any and all inputs or opinions.

Don

I have a Marx set in the box I would sell. M10000 set

@Bigboyrich:  Showing a picture of the set would help your sales potential. Don't for get to show the box especially both the top artwork and the side that shows the set number printed.

Best of luck

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

TAIL END MYSTERY ... OK T.E.T. fans I thought I would both give you all a bit of a puzzle and (maybe) find out something I have been trying to find out for a couple of years.  Enclosed are pictures of two Marx type 4 wheel cabooses.  Now we all know that most of these are common as dirt since Marx produced far more freight trains than passenger (he believed they provided more play value) and since in his time every freight train had a caboose ... well that makes the caboose the most common car by far.

So in about 2018 or so while at a train show near Dallas, I picked up (it was one I didn't have and it was cheap) what I believed to be a Marx caboose for the Arkansas RR.  After returning home I  reviewed every Marx reference source I can find (and I have quite a few) plus all my copies of their "catalogues" and all the Christmas adds from bot Sears and Montgomery Wards...and NO Arkansas RR caboose.

The following pictures compare the Arkansas RR caboose with a very common, NYC Pacemaker caboose and the molds for the car body appear identical except for the logo and I will show you the difference.

First, a general view, here are the two cabooses.  You can see the similarity easily.  Note one has a full smokestack and the other does not...this could be Marx truncating the exhaust stack mold (done before) or the Arkansas RR caboose has just had it broken off (easy to do as they are fragile and exposed). Due to lighting you cannot see the truck facade too easily on the Arkansas RR caboose , but it is identical to the NYC.

Here is the "non-coupler" end of the caboose and all the similarities hold including the number of rail supports and the mold of the rear door.

Here is the coupler end.  Note that the similarity continues even to include: the bars over the rear window, the detail in the door, the coupler support bar, the embossing on the coupler and the shape of the shank, and even the NON-USED hole for a screw that is not installed nor is it possible to install as there is no back up structure.

So here is the key difference.  The Marx caboose has an embossed logo on both sides of the two side windows.  The embossing is clearly visible and contains the Mark / USA logo.

The Arkansas RR caboose has the place for the embossed logo, even has the border line circle, but NO MARX LOGO...!!   The circle is blank on the inside.  Now removing the logo is logical as this car was obviously not sold by Marx and there would have been proprietary rights or trademark issues with retaining it.   Note how the rest of the mold is identical to the Marx car, including such small items as the window frame, simulated grab handles, rivets and stair steps. The simulated marker lights are present they are just on the other end from this picture.

So who made the Arkansas RR caboose?  It is clearly a Marx mold, giving almost identical features to a typical Marx 4 wheel caboose but it does not have the Marx logo.  This caboose was obviously molded with very minimal changes and as it was always a cheap train car not investing in unnecessary mold changes would be logical.  Just take the logo off and you are good to go.  Before you ask, no it doesn't have any other logo either molded or stamped nor does it have a country of origin.

Well there is your T.E.T mystery...open to any and all inputs or opinions.

Don

Wow, that's a real mystery.  I can't imaging someone tooling up to make a knock-off of those low end MARX sets.

My guess would be someone bought the tooling after MARX went belly-up and tried to break into the toy train business.

Or MARX actually made some kind of set under contract.  I don't think blanking the loco (with an insert maybe?) and plugging the stack would have been too expensive a modification.

Rusty

Thanks, yes.

Seems like not too many people collect Marx. I would like to sell this set.

I have it on the wrong forum. Oops

Today's tail end.  Do cabooses count?

On the theme of observations my Walthers kit built version that has actual fabric on the seats, real wood paneling in the hall, and door knobs on the doors.  I did not build it, but am proud to have it in my collection.

B&O caboose brings up the rear.  ( My photo )

A bit of MofW work ahead, with SIRT 29 (built from a highly modified Locomotive Workshop "economy 0-6-0" kit), a service gondola from a 1970's Liberty kit and a B&O K-1 caboose, which was rebuilt from a 1953 Train Craft 'bobber' model.

S. Islander

@GG1 4877 posted:

On the theme of observations my Walthers kit built version that has actual fabric on the seats, real wood paneling in the hall, and door knobs on the doors.  I did not build it, but am proud to have it in my collection.

If you ever have to change the bulbs, would like to see the inside Thanks Mark

My caboose.

Well not too many folks took me up on my "mystery" caboose, so I expect it will remain a mystery.  I do agree with Rusty's comment that it must have been made from Marx molds / dies.  Its too close a match for much else and it makes too cheap a car to justify the expense of a new mold / tooling.  I expect that its made from some tooling that Marx let go when they were closing down train production or some tooling Marx exported to a foreign country for further use but did not license the trademark.

Still looking....!

Best wishes

Don

Have a good Tail End,

Here is my Lionel “rescue “ caboose from the post war era. That nurse in the blue uniform must have a breezy ride!

best wishes

Don

For work trains with a crane, during transit the crane was sometimes the tail end so it could be easily positioned where it was needed.  If there was no run around track available, it could also have been the front end.

Here's my rears for this fine Tuesday!

Verde Canyon RR!

Santa Fe Valley Flyer

Well Hi T.E.T. folks, here it is only 1800 hrs on Monday night, but again, I have to take the wife to Ft. Worth tomorrow for a medical appointment and may not have time to post.  SO! I am taking the liberty of posting early...For my "tail ends" this week, I have decided to post some passenger train tail ends, normally called observation cars.  I have three examples for you, from era's that are decades apart.

First from the decades of the 1930's.  These cars started in 1931-32 as "Ives" cars after Lionel took over Ives production.  After about 1-2 years, Lionel ceased producing Ives trains and moved most of the cars into the regular Lionel line, although never cataloged, these cars were made available in numerous promotional sets to large buyers.  These two are both from the 1935 era.  The blue 1693 was available in 1935-36 and the more common red/brown 1691was available in 1935 only.  With various color changes these cars were made from 1933-37.

Now from the "golden era" of postwar toy / electric trains, the #2446 Summit Observation car.  This red stripe version is from 1956.  These small streamlined cars were also made in numerous variations starting in about 1950 for Lionel's 50th anniversary.  This red stripe "Summit" car as #2446 was offered in 1956 only but small streamlined observations , Pullmans, and eventually dome cars lasted in various forms till 1958. These cars were then re-introduced in the Modern era by the various follow on licensee's of Lionel (MPC, LTI, etc) right up until nearly today.

Well that's my tail ends for this week. Hope you are having a good week.

Best Wishes

Don

Hmmm...which is the front and which is the back???

Here's my rear for this fine Tuesday!  A rear of a Docksider.

Tail End Tuesday…is it real or memorex? 🚂😉😺

It's 11:40pm Pacific time, so I just made it! Here's my Tail End Tuesday WP mixed consist disappearing around the corner. Hasta la Vista, Baby!

Have a good day all, Keep America Strong!

TETers, have a great day.  Some tail ends from New Hampshire.

Have a great TET,

Here's my rear for this fine Tuesday!  From the K line Collectors Club.

Well hello T.E.T. fans, best wishes on this rather cold and dreary Tuesday here in central Texas.  Today I have a somewhat old "tail end" for my post, although this one was restored in the late 80's as I bought it in the same time period at a flea market in Doylestown, PA in very rough condition.  The 182 Standard Gauge Observation car was made between 1911 - 1921.  This example most likely dates from about 1918 to 1921 as it has a short observation platform and (IAW Greenberg's Guide) a "Type 9 fan design with an embossed railing top and bottom" on the short platform.

Here is a side view, note that this car is missing the clerestory celluloid lining but it does have the full punch out.  Note also that the trucks are sitting outside of the rail.  That is because although I have some small amount of standard gauge trains, I can no longer run them as I do not have the space.  Hence it is sitting on 0-gauge rail.

Here is a side view of the rear platform.  This is the so called "short" platform, the long platform found on earlier cars is about 2X the length of the short. 

Here is a close up of the so called "fan design" platform railing.  The short platform railing has an embossed edge top and bottom.

No

Note that the full set that I have has two 180 coaches plus the observation and is pulled by a # 53 electric motor (4 wheel variant).

Best wishes for a great week

Don

HAPPY  TET  people.  Hope everyone is safe and having fun.        Here's one from the test track area.

I'm 25 minutes late posting for TET, but what the heck.

@WesternPacific2217 posted:

I'm 25 minutes late posting for TET, but what the heck.

NOT  TO  WORRY  Scott.

As much as I hate to say it.......sometimes trains run a little late .

Well here I am again on Monday night posting to T.E. Tuesday Sorry can't help it, we have to travel to Ft. Worth early on Tuesday mornings 2 out of 3 weeks for my wife's chemotherapy.  So I try and post on Monday hope that's ok.  I really enjoy these "day of the week" threads and love looking at everyone's input and pictures.  

So today, I have my BRAND NEW (to me) Minneapolis and St. Louis Bay Window caboose from Lionel (MPC) in 1978-79.  This was actually part of one of their "Service Station Sets" although I didn't get the whole set.  I really loved the livery and the bright colors and the illumination, including rear markers was really neat.

Here she is sitting on top of her MPC era "window box" #9271 M&SL Bay Window caboose from 1978

Here is a view of the end railing and brake wheel.  Note the box is hand written. Not sure if this was a standard practice at MPC or not (doubt it) likely this is just an "extra box"...note the price label @ $30 is inaccurate...I didn't pay near that much.

Here is a little video showing her on the end of one of my freights.

Well best wishes everyone for T.E.T (on Monday night!!)

Don