Tang Band speaker module installed in S-Helper SW1

It is probably some where but ...
Which TB Speaker Module are you using?

Thanks
TC Carr

Well done! I have never seen under the hood of the SW-1 but it seams to have a good size fly wheel and motor. I'm hoping MTH does something with tooling they now have for the SW-1 switcher.  Hopefully a little quicker than the F3. 

DAPENGUIN posted:

It is probably some where but ...
Which TB Speaker Module are you using?

Thanks
TC Carr

TO-2008S

Hey Jonathan,

Really nice work!  Thanks for sharing. 

It appears the TO-2008S is the smallest module they make, but it looks like it barely fits!  Did you have to do anything special to get the ohms to match the decoder?  Do you have any more photos showing the connections?

Thanks, Mike A.

Wow! Fantastic sound in an SW1!

That sounds really good! They are really improving the DCC sounds and smaller speakers these days. Impressive!

Mikeaa posted:

Hey Jonathan,

Really nice work!  Thanks for sharing. 

It appears the TO-2008S is the smallest module they make, but it looks like it barely fits!  Did you have to do anything special to get the ohms to match the decoder?  Do you have any more photos showing the connections?

Thanks, Mike A.

Hey Mike,

Thanks. I cut off the mounting loops on the sides of the module to get it to fit. The LokSound Micro supports 4-8 Ohm speakers so this is a simple plug and go affair. I did wire in a micro 2 pole M/F plug so I could disconnect the decoder and speaker if I ever need to. I didn't take any more photos. There isn't much more to show though... Just plug in the 8 pin DCC decoder, wire the speaker to the two purple wires and that's it.  I would have preferred a keep alive capacitor, but I'm going to see how it goes without just because space is so tight.

I am impressed with the Locksound's sounds and the speaker as well. Nice work.

I wonder if we will ever see TMCC that will fit into one of these?

Ray

The SW1 Carl did is TMCC w/o sound. The only way I know of to have full TMCC and RS5 in the SW1 is a 2 unit tethered set with the electronics and speaker in the dummy.

banjoflyer posted:

Rayin"S" posted:

I wonder if we will ever see TMCC that will fit into one of these?

Ray

Carl Tuveson has done it here.

Mark

Carl was able to get TMCC control, but not RailSounds. Not enough room.

One of the reasons I like DCC is that it is a competitive environment which drives innovation. The LokSound Micro that I used is about twice the size of your pinky fingernail. That little unit offers better motor control than TMCC or Legacy, 2 Watt sound that is better than RailSounds, and the whole thing is software upgradeable so you can easily add new features or sound sets by uploading them with out ripping out the hardware. All for under $100.

I seems to me that it appears that some of Carl's conversions were made with ERR units that have been supplanted with improved units made by ERR. Maybe Carl can jump in here and clarify the issue for some of us that are not that proficient in the features and improvements made. From what I can gather, the mini commander II does not require a heat sink like previous versions which would make the overall install a little easier for most of us. I think the newer cruise commander also does not require a program switch either although the mini commander II still does. I believe both units are compatible with the additional sound commander also. Maybe Carl can offer some standardized guidelines as to what additional components are required (caps, diodes, etc) in relation to the type of can motor the installation is performed on. IE: AM single,double - SHS etc.) If we had standardized wiring and equipment requirement diagrams it could be reduced to a size only issue for type of engine install, something those of us with more limited skills could handle. Carl, any ideas?

Rich

Rich, 

Actually no, ERR has made improvements on their products. Some of the comparable products that were improved the size has changed little. The Mini-2 can be programmed without the program switch, the Cruise-Lite does need the programing switch. Carl is very much into TMCC and is always available for questions about his conversions. Some of his installations required heat sink. Some of them needed machining of the chassis. Most all of what Carl shows are within the capabilities of most of us and I believe his aim is to grow the interest in this part of the hobby.

Ray

Actually no, ERR has made improvements on their products. Some of the comparable products that were improved the size has changed little. The Mini-2 can be programmed without the program switch, the Cruise-Lite does need the programing switch. Carl is very much into TMCC and is always available for questions about his conversions. Some of his installations required heat sink. Some of them needed machining of the chassis. Most all of what Carl shows are within the capabilities of most of us and I believe his aim is to grow the interest in this part of the hobby.    

Ray,

Are you sure about that? My instructions for an as of yet uninstalled mini commander version 1 state that a run/program switch is required. As far as machining, I realize a hole along with 2 additional threaded holes need to be made in the chassis for the switch. Some of the older tutorials on Carl's web site are for early versions of the mini commander board which contained triacs? that seem to require a sink to dissipate the heat. The mini II as stated by Carl does not require them.

Rich

Ray,

Are you sure about that? My instructions for an as of yet uninstalled mini commander version 1 state that a run/program switch is required. As far as machining, I realize a hole along with 2 additional threaded holes need to be made in the chassis for the switch. Some of the older tutorials on Carl's web site are for early versions of the mini commander board which contained triacs? that seem to require a sink to dissipate the heat. The mini II as stated by Carl does not require them.

Rich

Rich,

If you go to the ERR website and look at the instructions on soft set programming you will find that the Mini-2 can be programmed using this method. I used this method after installing the Mini-2 in an American Hi-Rail  Doodlebug, in which, I did not want to cut a hole in the chassis.   It is applicable I believe only at this time to the Mini-2.

We may want to carry this subject to a thread in TMCC as this one was started with DCC.

Ray

Hi guys,

Carl and I are good friends and have lots of experience installing TMCC so let me help clarify this.........the Mini Commanders use the soft set technology and do not require a program/run switch for programming but all of the other ERR products do. The mini commanders are no longer available and were the only boards that  Carl and I have found that fit the S-Helper Switchers. There was not enough room in the switchers for any of the sound cards hence only TMCC without sound was and still is the choice of installation. I am in the process of finishing one now and you have to make a heat sink/mount to make it fit and trim down the area were the old board screwed to the shell. With that being said there are a couple of options that I have done in the past..........use a dummy A or power a freight car hooked up to the engine and install a sound system with the dummy mini so you will have control of the sound when running the engine. The other option is to run a tether to the other car for sound operation.

The Mini Commander was the only unit that should have a heat sink to dissipate the heat from the triacs and extend their life.  Also with the mini it was advisable to add a resistor and a cap for better slow speed control but with the newer electronics that is no longer required. And the mini commander required hooking up two diodes for directional control of the motor and again that is no longer required on the newer electronics.

The Mini II's do not use the same components and hence do not need the heat sink but do require the run/program switch as they cannot be programmed using Soft Set Technology.

All the TMCC boards that ERR manufacture will work with any of the DC can motors without any additional external components including resistors for LED operation. They also will work with the old Sound Commanders as well as their RS/4 systems.

Some installations are harder than others and do require milling. Most of the AM diesels require milling the motor mount and move the motor so as to have the room for both the TMCC board and the sound boards. For the steam engines all the electronics fit in the tenders and will only require a rectangle hole for the program/run switch. 

Hope this helps.

Ed Goldin

www.goldinhands.com

847-727-0857

Ed,

The Mini-2 also can use the soft set technology though it, the Mini-2, is not listed in the soft set manual.

Ray

Hi Jonathan,

It's been a few weeks since you started the thread.  Just curious if you had this out running on a layout to see how it performs and if you ended up reconsidering installing the Keep Alive module? 

Thanks again for posting here.  It's nice to see what's possible in DCC.

Mike A.

The Mini-2 also uses the soft set technology

The Mini II's do not use the same components and hence do not need the heat sink but do require the run/program switch as they cannot be programmed using Soft Set Technology.

No wonder I'm confused.

Rich

I don't know where you are getting the information that the Mini II has the soft set technology but it doesn't. The manual stipulates installing the program/run switch and to use it during the programming process. 

Ed

Ed,

The manual for the soft set technology specifies it to use in the Mini Commander series. Although it is not specifically  in the manual for the Mini-2 it does work. I have used soft set on a number of my Mini-2 installations, the one in particular is the Doodlebug that I purchased at S Fest, and had discussed with you previously. I did not want to cut a hole in the chassis of the Doodlebug for the switch.  I also used soft set on the Milwaukee Rd. RS 3 that I acquired from one of our club members in Milwaukee. We had also used the soft set method for programming on an American Hi-Rail Zephyr that belongs to one of our Badgerland members.  You do not have to believe what I am stating here, but you might want to try it on one of the Mini-2 boards on your test set up. It does work on these motor drivers. 

Ray

Ray, well I'll be............it works and after all these years I never knew that nor did Carl. I wonder if ERR knows but next time I talk to Ken I will tell him. Thanks for giving me that information as it is going to make some of my installations easier really appreciate that.

I just read ERR's entire installation procedure and cannot find anything about the soft set so how did you discover that it works? 

Ed

Ed, 

I just read the soft set manual, It says it works for the Mini-series and just took it for granted that the Mini-2 was part of that. I thought because it did not utilize the  RLC board that it would work, it did.

Ray

Smarter than the average bear...........thanks again for the info.

Ed, 

After the help you gave me on that sound board what less could I do. I consider you a friend and more than just an acquaintance. I owe you for your help.

Thanks Ray

Ray, thanks for the thought but you don't owe me anything it is all about the hobby and helper each other.

Ed,

When you contact Ken I am curious to know if they were aware of the soft set for the Mini-2. I would believe that they are aware of it and maybe did not update the soft set manual to mention it. Those folks are pretty busy, maybe did not find time to do it.

Ray

I know this is an oooold thread but..
ESU has 2 new/newish pruducts that may help in SHS switchers.  It may well fit alot better.

First is a slightly smaller speaker.  The ESU 50345.
It is 22mm x 42mm x 8.0mm, the Tang Band is 24mm x 55mm x 8.6mm.

A new decoder is the LokSound 5 Nano DCC.  ESU 58923.
It is slightly smaller that the Micro and comes with a wiring board.

TC Carr

I haven't tested the ESU 50345 speaker, but at the time I did the install/testing there was NOTHING that could compare to the Tangband for volume, clarity, and frequency response. There wasn't really any problem fitting the electronics. Pretty easy install with just a zip tie actually. I'll check out the ESU speaker sometime. Thanks

jonnyspeed... do you think that the components you used are still the best way to go and do you think it needed a keep alive? I am getting ready to do a SW9. Thanks!

@logcruiser posted:

jonnyspeed... do you think that the components you used are still the best way to go and do you think it needed a keep alive? I am getting ready to do a SW9. Thanks!

I always try to add a capacitor where possible even if just a small one. There should be enough room in the SW9. LokSound and TangBand are still the best combo IMHO. Good Luck!